Author Topic: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the wiki  (Read 16182 times)

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Offline Ursus

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letter from Thom Morson's grandfather re. Pinehaven
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 11:11:11 AM »
Here's that letter from Thom Morson's grandfather about Pinehaven, mentioned at the very end of the just above article, "Last two missing teens found in Montana":

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This is in regards to the 4 missing boys at Pinehaven. I am Tom Morsons grandfather and I would like to give my opinion on Pinehaven and the work that they do for so many kids.

Friday we received a call from the Vigo County Juvenile Detention Center telling us that Tom was there, he had been picked up here in Terre Haute and they had him there. About a 30 minutes before that Pinehaven contacted us and told us that Tom had been found and that he was well and that he had been picked up here in Terre Haute.

I have been watching the news and reading all the facebook comments about the 4 boys and all the negative things that have been said about Pinehaven and the people who run it, people like Bob Larson.

Bob gave Tom a chance to go to Pinehaven and keep him out of trouble and learn to control his temper and stop running away from life. This wasn't the first time that Tom has run away, he ran away from home several times and even ran away from a children's home.

He wasn't happy with staying any where if someone would put a bug in his ear and convince him to run. He had a chance to change things by going to Pinehaven, a chance that he agreed to before he went out there.

We had to fill out an application and submit it and then wait for an opening before he would be considered. We were sent an agreement that Tom had to sign before he was allowed to go there. It was a list of what was done at Pinehaven. He had to agree not to run away, to participate in religious activities, not to steal, use profanity, lie.

That he give Pinehaven staff to examine his possessions, including all mail,giving them the right to discipline him as they think necessary to help guide and protect him.

Privileges were to earned as he gained the respect and trust of Pinehaven staff. It told you about phone calls, the length of the call as well as the amounts of phone calls you were allowed.

They told him about their schooling that he would attend, mail and visits, there wasn't to be any mentioned the length of time any person was to be there, that was determined as the kids progressed towards there goals.

So as you can see there was a lot of information given in this agreement and if you didn't think or want to comply with these rules, you didn't sign the agreement and you would not be accepted to go there. The house parents helped with any questions that might come up over time as well as Bob Larson and the rest of the staff.

Tom told us that he started out slowly getting used to it, but later after learning the way things were run and what was expected of him he said he really liked being there. We visited Tom the last of June and he seemed to be doing well, he was with us for a week visiting various places in Montana before we returned him to Pinehaven and he acted like he was glad to get back.  

Three weeks later he ran, and we still don't know why. When the police picked him up and took him to the juvenile facility he said that he and Cody had hitched rides from various people to get back home, we heard that he and Cody were given a bus ticket by one of the parents to get home, that sounds more likely doesn't it.                                                          

      Jerry Barbour
      Terre Haute, IN.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: letter from Thom Morson's grandfather re. Pinehaven
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 11:55:17 AM »
My emphasis in red, my comments in blue.


Quote from: "Ursus"
Here's that letter from Thom Morson's grandfather about Pinehaven, mentioned at the very end of the just above article, "Last two missing teens found in Montana":

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

This is in regards to the 4 missing boys at Pinehaven. I am Tom Morsons grandfather and I would like to give my opinion on Pinehaven and the work that they do for so many kids.

Friday we received a call from the Vigo County Juvenile Detention Center telling us that Tom was there, he had been picked up here in Terre Haute and they had him there. About a 30 minutes before that Pinehaven contacted us and told us that Tom had been found and that he was well and that he had been picked up here in Terre Haute.

I have been watching the news and reading all the facebook comments about the 4 boys and all the negative things that have been said about Pinehaven and the people who run it, people like Bob Larson.

Bob gave Tom a chance to go to Pinehaven and keep him out of trouble and learn to control his temper and stop running away from life. This wasn't the first time that Tom has run away, he ran away from home several times and even ran away from a children's home.

He wasn't happy with staying any where if someone would put a bug in his ear and convince him to run. He had a chance to change things by going to Pinehaven, a chance that he agreed to before he went out there.   ( I wonder how much of a choice he really had?  I mean, what would his parents have done had he not agreed to these things, thus making him ineligible to attend?)

We had to fill out an application and submit it and then wait for an opening before he would be considered. We were sent an agreement that Tom had to sign before he was allowed to go there. It was a list of what was done at Pinehaven. He had to agree not to run away, to participate in religious activities, not to steal, use profanity, lie. ( I wonder how much of a choice he really had?  I mean, what would his parents have done had he not agreed to these things, thus making him ineligible to attend?)

That he give Pinehaven staff to examine his possessions, including all mail,giving them the right to discipline him as they think necessary to help guide and protect him.  (the "discipline him as they think necessary" bit scares me, especially when it comes to the fundie camps.  And no, I'm not saying that kids don't need discipline....of course they do but we've all seen how quickly "discipline" in these places can get out of hand and the sometimes deadly consequences)

Privileges were to earned as he gained the respect and trust of Pinehaven staff. It told you about phone calls, the length of the call as well as the amounts of phone calls you were allowed.

They told him about their schooling that he would attend, mail and visits, there wasn't to be any mentioned the length of time any person was to be there, that was determined as the kids progressed towards there goals.

So as you can see there was a lot of information given in this agreement and if you didn't think or want to comply with these rules, you didn't sign the agreement and you would not be accepted to go there. The house parents helped with any questions that might come up over time as well as Bob Larson and the rest of the staff.

Tom told us that he started out slowly getting used to it, but later after learning the way things were run and what was expected of him he said he really liked being there. We visited Tom the last of June and he seemed to be doing well, he was with us for a week visiting various places in Montana before we returned him to Pinehaven and he acted like he was glad to get back.  

Three weeks later he ran, and we still don't know why. When the police picked him up and took him to the juvenile facility he said that he and Cody had hitched rides from various people to get back home, we heard that he and Cody were given a bus ticket by one of the parents to get home, that sounds more likely doesn't it.                                                          

      Jerry Barbour
      Terre Haute, IN.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Re: letter from Thom Morson's grandfather re. Pinehaven
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 11:49:37 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
My emphasis in red, my comments in blue.
Quote from: "Jerry Barbour (Thom Morson's grandfather)"
He wasn't happy with staying any where if someone would put a bug in his ear and convince him to run. He had a chance to change things by going to Pinehaven, a chance that he agreed to before he went out there.   ( I wonder how much of a choice he really had?  I mean, what would his parents have done had he not agreed to these things, thus making him ineligible to attend?)

We had to fill out an application and submit it and then wait for an opening before he would be considered. We were sent an agreement that Tom had to sign before he was allowed to go there. It was a list of what was done at Pinehaven. He had to agree not to run away, to participate in religious activities, not to steal, use profanity, lie. ( I wonder how much of a choice he really had?  I mean, what would his parents have done had he not agreed to these things, thus making him ineligible to attend?)
For some of those kids, the alternative placement was jail. So... they're court-ordered. For them there is, effectively, no choice. What are you gonna do? Not sign a paper that says "I will not runaway" ... before you even know what it is you might run away from? Don't forget, Thom Morson is 15 years old.

Quote from: "Jerry Barbour (Thom Morson's grandfather)"
That he give Pinehaven staff to examine his possessions, including all mail,giving them the right to discipline him as they think necessary to help guide and protect him.  (the "discipline him as they think necessary" bit scares me, especially when it comes to the fundie camps.  And no, I'm not saying that kids don't need discipline....of course they do but we've all seen how quickly "discipline" in these places can get out of hand and the sometimes deadly consequences)
I have a feeling that the family and "inner circle" that run Pinehaven are quite cozy with the local law enforcement and political goombahs...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: letter from Thom Morson's grandfather re. Pinehaven
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2010, 11:53:11 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
For some of those kids, the alternative placement was jail. So... they're court-ordered. For them there is, effectively, no choice. What are you gonna do? Not sign a paper that says "I will not runaway" ... before you even know what it is you might run away from? Don't forget, Thom Morson is 15 years old.

Oh no doubt.  That's what I was trying (and apparently failing  :P ) to say. That I doubt very much the kid had any true choice in the matter.

Quote
I have a feeling that the family and "inner circle" that run Pinehaven are quite cozy with the local law enforcement and political goombahs...

Sounds like Straight.  Again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Re: letter from Thom Morson's grandfather re. Pinehaven
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 12:58:20 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Ursus"
For some of those kids, the alternative placement was jail. So... they're court-ordered. For them there is, effectively, no choice. What are you gonna do? Not sign a paper that says "I will not runaway" ... before you even know what it is you might run away from? Don't forget, Thom Morson is 15 years old.
Oh no doubt.  That's what I was trying (and apparently failing  :P ) to say. That I doubt very much the kid had any true choice in the matter.
Nah, you didn't fail... *I* failed to communicate that I was (merely) agreeing with your incisive words of wisdom!  ;D
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Offline Ursus

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Comments for "Last two missing teens found in Montana"
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2010, 01:01:37 PM »
Comment left for the above article, "Last two missing teens found in Montana" (by Kate Greene, 16 Aug 2010, WTHItv.com):


rotsne 1p  · 3 weeks ago
    It is awful that you can residential facilities housing minors which are not monitored by the state. Minors regardless of how troubled they seem to be must be protected. Minors have died at residential facilities in Montana. It is not something a proud and upstanding state should accept.

    It is time to send the right message to the children. If you break the law or otherwise cause trouble there will be consequences, but the consequences shall be handed out in a civil and orderly way. A couple of years back when the state asked for guidelines for residential housing of minors a committee was created by our politicians. On the committee was representatives for the various residential treatment centers - among them even Pinehaven.

    Will our policians ask people who tend to speed to create a committee setting up new speed limits? Of course not. When you are elected as politician you must do some work on your own. It is expected by the voters. The politicians have failed their duty. The children at facilities like Pinehaven are paying the price.

    There is only one answer. Legislation and oversight!

    Please get into gear before you have another deaths.


All content © Copyright 2000 - 2010 LIN Television Corporation.
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Offline Ursus

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Runaways found safe
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2010, 06:34:47 PM »
Lake County Leader
Runaways found safe
Posted: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:41 pm
By Sasha Goldstein


ST. IGNATIUS — Four teens missing since July from the Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch in St. Ignatius have been confirmed found and safe, according to Lake County Sheriff's Office Det. Mike Gehl.

"As far as I can remember, this was the longest kids have been missing," Gehl said of the runaways from the ranch. "One [teen] had been in contact with his mom and his mom got bus fare for the kid to get back to Indiana."

Chance Salyers and Adam Irwin, 17, both of Illinois, ran away from the ranch July 15. Police in Kalispell found Irwin earlier this month and Salyers spoke with his mother about picking him up in Kalispell in early August as well.

Thomas Morson, 15, of Indiana and 14-year-old Cody Thompson, of Illinois, ran away from the ranch July 26 and Gehl said they were found in Missoula just last week. Acting director of the ranch Jonathan Larsson said they were notified that the last two missing youth had been found on the night of the 13th.

All four teens have been transported back to their respective home states.

"There didn't appear to be a connection between the two [pairs of runaways]," Gehl said.

Gehl said approximately one or two children run away from the ranch each year. He said they are troubled youth that are not necessarily used to a structured lifestyle that includes chores and punishment. Most cited homesickness as the reason they ran away, Gehl said.

"It's unfortunate what’s going on, that the kids ran away," Gehl said. "Many aren't used to being told to shovel horse manure if they mess up."

Gehl said there are 75 to 80 kids at the ranch at any one time from all over the country. They are voluntarily admitted to the ranch, either by their parents or themselves, and are taught Christian values in a ranch-type setting.


© Copyright 2010, leaderadvertiser.com, Polson, MT.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2010, 07:38:41 PM »
Glad they are safe.  I guess it is not very clear yet why they ran (my guess would be the structure), but if it wasnt for a good reason it is unfortunate because they had an opportunity to turn their lives around.  I am not sure what the next step is for these kids.  I just hope they can find themselves and the next place is able to connect with them and set them on the right path.



...
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2010, 05:57:50 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Glad they are safe.  I guess it is not very clear yet why they ran (my guess would be the structure), but if it wasnt for a good reason it is unfortunate because they had an opportunity to turn their lives around.  I am not sure what the next step is for these kids.  I just hope they can find themselves and the next place is able to connect with them and set them on the right path.
Barring cases in which the courts were already involved, it's quite possible that some of these families have reconsidered sending off their boys to a program.
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Offline Ursus

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The Problems Mount For Pinehaven
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2010, 12:24:43 PM »
Another entry from David Krug's Standing In Corners blog:

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The Problems Mount For Pinehaven
07. Aug, 2010 · 5 Comments

Pinehaven did not notify Missoula Police about the missing boys at Pinehaven which is the most logical place for runaways to go. Pinehaven has done almost nothing to help locate the boys and has not been cooperative, instead placing blame back on the "troubled teens", their parents, and how they were raised.

While I'm certain these teens are in need of extra care, love, and grace I really don't think you point fingers at runaways, you try to evaluate how to reach them, how to help them, and how to love them. Especially given the circumstances that they came from.

I believe these runaways are a warning sign, and writing on the wall that there are other problems that need to be addressed at Pinehaven. However Pinehaven has not wanted to heed advice from churches, from former staff, or from alumni who offered many paths towards redemption, and healing.

Pinehaven continues to stick to its, It's everyone else's fault policy when really it should be focusing on finding the boys that are missing, and helping the children that are currently in their care.

In my personal evaluation I believe at least one of the boys runaways could have been prevented through having a licensed counselor on board, and a willingness to help address these issues in a proper professional manner.

Regarding More Allegations of Abuse

Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch continues to have problem after problem stacked on top of problems. Currently Standing in Corners volunteers are investigating 3 more allegations of sexual abuse at Pinehaven dating back 15 years.

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Offline maruska

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Re: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2010, 10:44:41 AM »
Ursus, did you notice the comment from Cody?
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Offline Ursus

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Re: The Problems Mount For Pinehaven
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2010, 11:12:23 AM »
Quote from: "maruska"
Ursus, did you notice the comment from Cody?
Yep. It's why I delayed posting this blog entry 'till after I got the articles posted re. the runaways being home safe and sound... for "context," you might say. Just didn't get around to posting the comments yesterday. Thanks for noticing!
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Offline Ursus

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Comments for "The Problems Mount For Pinehaven"
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2010, 11:23:56 AM »
The third comment below is from Cody Thompson, one of the runaways:

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Comments left for the above blog entry, "The Problems Mount For Pinehaven" (by David Krug; 07 August, 2010; Standing in Corners [blog])


Chelsie · 11. Aug, 2010 at 3:50 am
    Pinehaven is a great place for troubled youth to go and I am sick of people not noticing all the work they have done for these kids. These kids just dont want to take responsibilty of their actions and are trying to close the place that has helped them the most. I just graduated from Pinehaven and I was there for over five and a half years. I never once saw any abuse. I am standing up for Pinehaven and I always will. They are a great program, including the pros and cons. No place is perfect and that is what most people like to do is point out the imperfections of others rather than work on their own.
David Krug · 13. Aug, 2010 at 6:04 am
    Chelsie,
    While I respect your opinion. I do not believe in "Troubled Youth'. I believe there are certain kids that need more love, and more grace.

    Maybe I needed more love and grace. I didnt need pushed down stairs, or hit by my chore truck.

    And the girls who were raped they sure as hell didn't need that. So while I think its amazing you had a great experience. I think its foolish to blindly support anyone, or anything.

    I know I'm not perfect but protecting children from these cycles of abuse at Pinehaven is my calling.

    I wish you the best as you find yourself in life the first few years post Pinehaven are the hardest. Holler if you ever need anything. The alumni is like a family who will always be there for you.
Cody Thomson · 17. Aug, 2010 at 10:36 pm
    Every day was struggle for me from waking up in anther house to being forced to call somebody I didn't even know mom and dad. It was altogether depressing and uncomfortable.
    I was in Foster Care for four years. Pine Haven is easily three times worse than Foster Care. Please don't send your kids there.
    I wanted to be home more than anything else in the world. It was a constant struggle for me and unbearable. This is why I ran away.
    On August 20 2010 I'll be going to court. Please pray for me. The court is trying to send me off again even though the three other runaways get to stay home.
    They say my mom isn't a fit mom ,but I disagree because my mom came all the way to Montana to look for me. She never quit and I'm glad she didn't. She spent all of her money to bring me home with her. I love her to death. I could never ask for a better mom.
David Krug · 18. Aug, 2010 at 9:26 pm
    Cody,
    Well you will always have a friend right here. Call, or write if you or your family ever need anything or you just want to talk. I wish you the best of luck man. Stay in touch.
James P. Mason · 20. Sep, 2010 at 10:41 pm
    Chelsie,

    You state that you are standing up for Pinehaven, and always will. I must ask...will you stand up even if you find out that you're wrong?

    You state that the "program" at Pinehaven is great, "including the pros and cons". Would you please mention some of these cons? I'd really like to know what you see as a "con". Have you attempted to fix these problems? Have you brought them up to the Larssons? If so, what was their response? If not, why not?

    Oh...and what do you mean by "these kids"...do you even know who you are talking about?


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Offline Reddit TroubledTeens

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Re: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2012, 01:15:45 PM »
David Krug's new website about Pinehaven: http://davidkrug.org/pinehaven
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Offline Reddit TroubledTeens

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Re: Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch - new entry on the
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2012, 01:19:28 PM »
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/27/u ... an-school/

Ungodly Discipline: Abuse accusations at a Christian school

March 27th, 2012
10:46 PM ET

[VIDEO]

Pinehaven Christian Children's Ranch in western Montana doesn't deny their use of "tough love" techniques on students. In the past, one house parent would apply pressure to the children's necks to control their behavior, a practice no longer permitted. Several former students and employees say they experienced  or witnessed physical and emotional abuse. Preacher Bob Larsson, who's been the school's owner for almost 40 years, denies the allegations and tells CNN's Gary Tuchman that their methods of discipline are not abusive.

Larson introduced several students who are thankful for their time at Pinehaven. Troy Baker said, "Tough love means separating people from drugs and alcohol and bad influences that brought them to pinehaven in the first place." Curtis Swanson says he never saw an abusive house parent.

Others claim that the abuse went beyond trying to discipline students to include difficult and dangerous construction jobs around the ranch. Larsson says those who didn't complete the work were punished, but not abused. When asked why he thinks some are alleging abuse, he told CNN he believes they are influenced by Satan.
tzavtr.gary.tuchman
   Post by: Gary Tuchman
Filed under: Ungodly Discipline
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