Author Topic: If You Really Knew Me  (Read 3214 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Joel

  • Guest
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2010, 02:21:00 PM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 06:56:15 PM by Joel »

Offline blombrowski

  • Posts: 135
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: If You Really Knew Me
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 02:23:14 PM »
Back on point... Stumbled onto this show the other night.  Lgat was my first thought.  The key to me is how voluntary was this process?  Makes all the difference in the world.  Making a youth go through this in a program where they have no choice but participate strikes me as potentially traumatizing and abusive.  If you try to make the argument that the youth in the tv show were abused by participating in "challenge day", it's a hard sell (though as for long term outcomes, we only see what happens the day after).  It struck me that the facilitators on the show were fairly skilled, and the effectiveness and the prevention of residual harm was largely dependent on that. Also the facilitators were "peers" and not program staff, and not peers that were going to be around the next day.  So on the whole the intervention as shown on MTV may have worked (at least in the very short term) but should have come with a warning "don't try this at home".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
"Challenge Day"
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2010, 03:45:29 PM »
Some additional threads which mention "Challenge Day":

[/li]
[li]Who came up with WWASP's seminars and continues to run them?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12970[/list][/li]
[li]Ever wonder what really goes on in those ?last ditch? fa
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13897[/list][/li]
[li]Gilcrease seminar featured on Oprah
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19962[/list][/li]
[li]Oprah marketing teen LGAT Challenge Day
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20190[/list][/li]
[li]CEDU Techniques in modern education..
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26532[/list][/li][/list]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline DannyB II

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3273
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: If You Really Knew Me
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2010, 07:20:18 PM »
Great post, Suck It thanks.
Blombrowski, thanks for the comments been reading a lot from you lately especially back in 09 concerning Ken from CALO. You have a interesting way of posting different from many, without the intensity. Ursus thank for the follow up links. Anne thanks for your usual harassment of other posters. I'm sure you have to find some outlet for all your rage. Glad we could help you here.
On the serious side of things, I wonder if parents could be taught to do this at home or would it create to many conflicts of interest, probably so. I found the show very interesting with a lot of upside.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Warm embrace for kids, or merely 'psycho cry fest'?
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2010, 07:28:31 PM »
Warm embrace for kids, or merely 'psycho cry fest'?
By Keith Ervin
Seattle Times staff reporter



Washington Middle School teacher Anna Rabel hugs a student at the end of Challenge Day, a workshop aimed at creating a safe school environment free of teasing and harassment.
MIKE SIEGEL / THE SEATTLE TIMES


Seattle, WA - 4/10/2002 —Sitting in small circles, their knees touching, students shared their own hurt and the pain they had inflicted on others. The tears flowed. In some groups, half the Washington Middle School students were crying at once.

Applause followed, as the seventh- and eighth-graders stepped up to roving microphones and declared what they would do to mend broken relationships with their schoolmates.

Two boys shook hands after one apologized for making fun of the other, and said he hoped to be more supportive.

A girl owned up to snubbing an old friend. "I'm sorry that I've been very distant and that I've chosen other friends in school," she said. "I'm going to work on that, and I'm going to be a better friend."

The girls embraced.

Challenge Day, a workshop aimed at creating a safe school environment free of teasing and harassment, has come to Seattle public schools.

Students and staff members were effusive in their praise for the fast-growing program. Nearly 300 students from Washington and Meany middle schools participated in three daylong sessions last week.

But the emotional intensity of the workshops - and their promotion of encounter-style seminars by a controversial for-profit company - have led critics to suggest the schools have strayed into inappropriate areas.

Challenge Day participants received information packets about a seminar offered in Seattle next month by Resource Realizations, a Scottsdale, Ariz., company best known for its work in residential behavior-modification programs for troubled teens. The company's seminars also were plugged at free parent workshops in the schools.

The Rev. Ron Davis, pastor of Magnolia Presbyterian Church and the father of a Washington eighth-grader who did not attend Challenge Day, said he was concerned about the involvement of Resource Realizations.

"You open the door, you make kids vulnerable, you hand them off to Resource Realizations. I find that unacceptable," Davis said.

Last week's workshops, described by one student as "a psycho cry fest," were the first joint venture involving Resource Realizations, the separate, nonprofit Challenge Day organization, graduates of Resource Realizations seminars, and public schools.

Washington Principal Marilyn Day said she had been unaware of Resource Realizations' partnership with Challenge Day but did not view the workshops as attempts to recruit students to seminars. She said families won't sign up for seminars if they feel they are inappropriate.

Meany Middle School Principal Christi Clark could not be reached for comment.

Superintendent Joseph Olchefske said he had little information about the events and expects middle-schools director Donna Hudson to speak with the principals after spring break.

Olchefske noted that Seattle schools are allowed considerable discretion in deciding what is beneficial for students and are encouraged to form partnerships with outside groups. However, "Clearly, the idea of marketing through kids is something we frown on," he said.

A letter from Resource Realizations founder David Gilcrease to the parents of Challenge Day participants said "the next step for your teen" is the company's three-day, $295 Teen Discovery seminar. Brochures were provided for a May 3-5 seminar at the Ramada Inn on Northgate Way.

"While Challenge Day is a critical first step, a one-day learning experience only goes so far," Gilcrease wrote. "To create truly lasting transformation in their lives, most teens need more."

Critics have accused Resource Realizations' seminars, like the better-known est and Lifespring trainings of the 1970s, of "brainwashing" participants. Gilcrease was a Lifespring facilitator for five years before starting his own company in 1986.

Resource Realizations is a defendant in several lawsuits in which parents claim their children were emotionally abused by seminar facilitators or staff at behavior-therapy facilities where teen seminars are held. The company denies the allegations.

Until now, the seminars have been pitched primarily to teens and parents of teens in the five member programs of the St. George, Utah-based World Wide Association of Specialty Programs.


Randy Giddens, whose child went through a program for troubled teens, listens intently at Challenge Day last week as a student tells about herself. Giddens was one of several adults who attended the workshop at St. Joseph Church on Capitol Hill.
MIKE SIEGEL / THE SEATTLE TIMES


The pilot program in Seattle is the first step in bringing the seminars to a larger market.

Gilcrease said the new approach offers "a huge potential growth area" for his $2 million-a-year company, but the motivation isn't financial.

"We make pretty good money. I don't need money. We want to make a difference. We've got some serious problems here," Gilcrease said.

Family Visions Foundation, created by seminar graduates, paid nearly $10,000 for the middle schools' Challenge Days as part of an effort to reach a broader range of families, including those not in crisis, said Family Visions board member Michele Anciaux Aoki, who arranged the Washington and Meany workshops.

"It's been a gift to our family," Aoki said of the seminars she has attended with her husband since she took her struggling 16-year-old son to Spring Creek Lodge in Thompson Falls, Mont., three years ago.

Aoki, co-president of the Parent Teacher Student Association at Washington Middle School, is one of many parents who credit the seminars with motivating their children to straighten up and with bringing families back together.

Mort Hurt, who went through seminars to support his daughter nine years ago, called it "a life-changing experience. ... If we had a program like this worldwide, we wouldn't be having the problems we face today."

Schools, eager to find antidotes to the damaging effects of cliques, bullying, and drug and alcohol abuse, have embraced Challenge Day in growing numbers. St. Joseph School in Seattle offered the program to sixth- through eighth-graders in February.

Challenge Day, created in 1987 by teen intervention counselors Yvonne and Rich St. John-Dutra, has expanded rapidly since a story about it appeared in the best-selling book "Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul." The organization's headquarters are in Martinez, Calif.

At Washington Middle School's Challenge Day, students stood behind a blue line stretched across the large social hall in St. Joseph Church on Capitol Hill.

Students and staff members silently crossed the line if various life experiences applied to them. Have you or a friend or family member faced a problem with alcohol or drugs? Has a loved one died of a serious illness? Has one been beaten or killed?

Have you contemplated suicide or known someone who killed himself? Have you ever been teased because you were considered too skinny? Too fat?

Have you been poor, homeless or on welfare?

Students reflected on what they had learned, then made public apologies to their schoolmates.


Challenge Day founder Rich Dutra-St. John speaks at a workshop last week.
MIKE SIEGEL / THE SEATTLE TIMES


After the final exercise - hugging as many people as possible in two minutes, to the theme from "Rocky" - eighth-grader Sydney Simon said of Challenge Day, "It changed me. I feel more compassionate and loving toward everybody. Differences don't matter so much anymore."

Her feeling was widely shared. One boy later told a counselor it had been the best day of his life; he felt as though 80 pounds had been lifted from his shoulders.

St. Joseph School Administrator George Hofbauer called Challenge Day "a phenomenally powerful experience" that made students more sensitive to their schoolmates' feelings. He said the school funded the program before Challenge Day and Resource Realizations formed their partnership.

Meany social-studies teacher Jamie Asaka called the experience "just fabulous." But a couple of students asked her, "OK, now we've opened up our wounds. Are we going to get a chance to deal with some of these things?"

Challenge Day was, overall, a very positive experience, but some parts may have been "a little bit too raw, a little too intense," said Meany head counselor Sally Graham-Hurt. School staffers are now discussing a possible follow-up program with the Northwest Family Visions Foundation.

Graham-Hurt said she had "twinges of discomfort" over the promotion of Resource Realizations seminars to students.

Some participants in those seminars have been offended by the experience. Clayton, Calif., piano dealer Kendall Ross Bean said he dropped out when he was told to affirm his trust in other group members by telling his "deepest, darkest secret" to the next person he came to.

Thomas Burton, a Pleasanton, Calif., attorney representing several parents and children suing Resource Realizations and the behavior-modification facilities that contract for the seminars, said one client was told to wear a sign saying "Slut" after she confided she had been sexually abused. The girl also was told to wear a fishnet top and assume sexually provocative poses, Burton said.

Founder Gilcrease said he was unaware of Burton's allegation and said such tactics would not be used in any of his company's seminars. "They're tough and they're fair and they're not about degrading people," he said.

Gilcrease also said the "script" for seminar facilitators does not include asking participants to reveal their deepest, darkest secrets. However, participants are encouraged to face painful truths that might stand in the way of healthy family relationships, he said.

------------------------------------------

Editor's comment:  One reader wrote the following:

Here is the latest Day of..... agenda following so closely on the heels of the Day of Silence that it, taken alongside some of the many other indications of the final accidental/coincidental destruction of the country.  Every segment of control freaks that have been allowed to fester and grow to infectious stages seem to be coming together at once.

Every school that any seems to know about is putting forth massive increases in budgets and massive increases in building and massive increases in demands for more testing to make sure students are being educated.

The proof that none of this is what is needed should be seen in all the diversions from real education, but it is not yet evident that enough people are recognizing it for what it is.

This day-long encounter type sessions in a pilot program in schools is perhaps the most egregious example yet. Will people finally see the connections between behavior modification agendas in schools and this final, more public example of "demonstrating" passing the needed test to indicate achievement of the agendas?

Chinese re-education camps were designed to have inmates exhibit public demonstrations that they had purged themselves of sins of belief and behavior.

How is this much different?  And, with the UN declaration that all countries are subject to the rules of the International Criminal Court, whether their country agrees or not, what lies ahead for American students now beginning their trek down implementation of the Challenge Day breakdown of their emotional stability?

Joan Battey
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline DannyB II

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3273
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: If You Really Knew Me
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2010, 07:45:16 PM »
Now I want this quoted and put into the archives for all time.
Ursus great follow up story, I did say there was up side but I never elaborated on my reasoning. Well I will stand down from elaborating because after reading Kevin Ervin report, he elevated all of my concerns out of there hiding places.
Using kids for a profit not a wildly exotic thought, many companies do that. Hollywood made a empire out of it, the textile business, US Steel Corp. mines made a fortune off the backs of kids at one time....ect.  
Resource Realizations, a Scottsdale, Ariz., Company, really needs to get out of the schools. If the parents want to take advantage of this then after school or whenever is fine. But to have a company in their hawking their product is outrageous.
Ya, like the underpaid teachers are going to want to assist or under take a project like this.
They think they have problems know in school, wait till you put a spot light on the bully, you also better make sure little johnny has a guard for the way home on the bus.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 10:13:32 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Warm embrace for kids, or merely 'psycho cry fest'?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2010, 07:46:53 PM »
Two more Letters to the Editor regarding the above article, one pro, one con, ended up being stored in The Free Library in Northwest Voices A sampling of readers' letters, faxes and e-mails:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Challenging Workshop Focus on lessons learned, not marketing trivia

Keith Ervin's article ("Warm embrace for kids, or merely 'psycho cry fest'?", Local News, April 14) is an example of what can go wrong with journalism -- creating controversy for pure hype instead of focusing on real issues. The title of his article should have been, "Kids learn important life lessons in one day."

As a parent volunteer who helped at two Challenge Day workshops for Meany and Washington middle schools, I was saddened that this article's main focus was on the connection to a company that didn't even facilitate the workshop. It could have been about the ways to bring out the best in people; how to bridge divisions among individuals with differences; how to look beyond images and appearances and reach out to others. This workshop showed that it's possible to make meaningful connections with people in less than six hours if we hold off our judgments.

At the end of the workshop, less than one minute was spent in announcing to the students that there were packets on the Teen Discovery workshop if they were interested in going to the next level. If such an announcement is considered inappropriate marketing to kids, we should be eliminating all vending machines in schools, TV commercials, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to give our children tools to work with after they have experienced what's possible. They are now motivated to learn. Wouldn't it be great if the school's required health curriculum taught them nonviolent communication, interpersonal and stress-management strategies?

Alice Cho Snyder, Seattle

--------------

Poor experiment

Thank you for speaking out against the recent psycho-fest Challenge Day experiments, which have been popping up recently in some of our schools. I agree that this is a disturbing, poorly thought-out trend that is being revived from decades ago.

My child participated in a Challenge Day at St. Joseph School and although I did not attend this event, I spoke with several parents and children who did.

It sounded like a disaster with children crying, adults prying and children feeling coerced into "telling all." And, to make matters worse, parent volunteers were used to "facilitate" small groups. No special training was given to parents nor was there much follow-up.

Let's keep these costly psychological programs where they belong -- in a qualified health professional's private office.

Sharon Hendrickson, Seattle


COPYRIGHT 2002 The Seattle Times
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Schools shouldn't endorse psycho-fests
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2010, 11:40:02 AM »
Here's an Editorial in The Seattle Times that followed closely on the heels of the above article:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

The Seattle Times
Friday, April 12, 2002 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

EDITORIAL
Schools shouldn't endorse psycho-fests

The role of educating children has justifiably broadened over the years to include more than the basic three R's, but encounter-style seminars that leave students emotionally drained should not be part of it.

Especially not to turn a profit.

It is alarming that nearly 300 Seattle Public Schools students have already participated in Challenge Day workshops. These 12- and 13-year-olds went through sessions reminiscent of est, or Lifespring encounter groups, courtesy of a for-profit company. While the goal of the seminars has merit — to create a safe school environment free of teasing and harassment — their methods don't belong under the imprimatur of public education.

That the sessions took place off school property — at St. Joseph Church on Capitol Hill — has little bearing. They were arranged by the co-president of the Parent Teacher Student Association at Washington Middle School and approved by the principals at Washington and Meany middle schools.

The emotional intensity of the workshops is troublesome. Schools should not assist in placing children in situations where adults break them down emotionally and, purportedly, rebuild them into better people. Better to leave intensive character building to parents. If parents endorse this therapy, they can arrange it privately for their child.

Another disturbing aspect of encounter groups in the schools is their commercialism. The district has an anti-commercialization policy. Yet, students participating in Challenge Day received information packets about a seminar offered in Seattle next month by Resource Realizations, a Scottsdale, Ariz., company best known for its controversial work in residential behavior-modification for troubled teens.

Sales pitches directly targeted to children place parents in an untenable position. It is the role of parents to sort out what is appropriate for their child, but the job is made more difficult by an end run around them to their children. The cost of these seminars goes from none at the schools to $295 for the next-step session, to more than $800 for a weeklong seminar.

Challenge Day's pilot program in Seattle is the first step in bringing the seminars to a larger market. This should have been expected by district administrators. School districts full of children translate potentially into huge profits.

However, this can also translate into a legal mess the first time a child is emotionally, and irreparably, undone by one of these soul-searching encounters. Seattle's principal corps is a strong one and principals have great autonomy over their schools. But Superintendent Joseph Olchefske should step in and say no this time.

There are plenty of ways to thwart harassment and teasing that don't involve putting children through what many adults wouldn't go through.


Copyright © 2010 The Seattle Times Company
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline Ursus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8989
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
Challenge Day sponsors drop kids' workshops
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2010, 01:03:42 PM »
A follow-up article to the above:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

The Seattle Times
Thursday, July 4, 2002 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Challenge Day sponsors drop kids' workshops
By  Keith Ervin
Seattle Times staff reporter


Sponsors of emotionally intense anti-harassment workshops held at two Seattle middle schools this spring have dropped plans for follow-up activities and similar events at other Seattle schools.

Michele Anciaux Aoki, an organizer of the Challenge Day workshops for Meany and Washington middle-school students, said press coverage of the April events persuaded sponsors and schools not to repeat the program.

Although there were no parent complaints to either school, Aoki said, newspaper and television editorials blasted the events sending "a very strong message" to the sponsors. The editorials followed a Page 1 story in The Seattle Times about the workshops.

Meany Principal Christi Clark said she felt the workshops were successful but decided not to continue the process because of media criticism.

"Frankly, because of the hoopla in your article in the paper, I would choose not to have a follow-up because I don't want to go down that road again." Clark said. "It's not so much because of the merits of the program as the media controversy." Nearly 300 students attended the two workshops by Challenge Day, a nonprofit organization based in Martinez, Calif. The programs were intended to discourage teasing, bullying, violence and drug and alcohol abuse.

The workshops drew rave reviews from many students and adult volunteers, but they generated controversy among some parents and other citizens because of their emotional intensity. Participants also were encouraged to share deeply personal feelings and experiences.

One girl described the event as a "psycho cry fest."

The events also violated the school district's commercialism policy because letters to parents encouraged them to enroll their children in "the next step for your teen," a three-day, $295 seminar operated by Resource Realizations, a for-profit company.

Shortly after the Challenge Day events, Resource Realizations apologized to the School Board for any violation of the commercialism policy and for any damage done to the Challenge Day organization. The Scottsdale, Ariz., company pledged to "stand aside from all involvement or contact with the Seattle schools."

The $10,000 cost of the two Challenge Days was paid by the Northwest Family Visions Foundation, a group of parents who have participated in Resource Realizations seminars.

Although the Northwest Family Visions Foundation will not sponsor more Challenge Days in Seattle schools, foundation board member Aoki said it is possible similar events will take place under different sponsorship.

"It wouldn't surprise me to find schools and people in the community embracing Challenge Day," Aoki said. "They are a quality, professional, nonprofit organization. They are doing excellent work. The fact that the program that we piloted here got maligned in the media is not the end of the story, I think, of whether other people will offer to bring it back."

Keith Ervin can be reached at 206-464-2105 or [email protected].


Copyright © 2010 The Seattle Times Company
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Offline SUCK IT

  • Posts: 411
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: If You Really Knew Me
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2010, 01:08:45 PM »
These articles were written a long time ago, I think some things have changed. When I read these articles it doesn't match up to what I see on MTV. It's not a psycho cry fest, at least from what they show on TV. It seems to work, and real problems seem to get resolved. I think it's better that people are trying to address the issues in high school, obviously there are problems that go on and it's better to release some of the tension before it boils over into something more serious like Columbine.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
one day at a time

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 760
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: If You Really Knew Me
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2010, 01:47:36 PM »
Urban Dictionary already has an article on this psycho cry-fest.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...