I'm headed off to get my daughter from sage walk

[Botched Programming]

  There is a big difference in rewarding a child for a job well done and being forced to change in fear of reprisal or extreme consequences.

They are both considered behavior modification.

The examples you give above do not compare with a child being stripped from their families, friends, and people that they trust. Having to endure "Fear Tactic" therapy. Suffering extreme consequences for not being submissive and allowing an unlicensed counselor get in their head and botch up the programming they are trying to do on the kids. Then the end result is a child who is emotionally and mentally broken. That's what happens when the average kid is traumatized in the programming process by brain butchers at programs.

I agree 100%.  There is no chance I would send any of my kids to a place like that nor would I suggest anyone send their children there.


...

The way you are trying to make it sound is like the parents knew what kind of place that they were putting their child in. I don't think any parent in  their right mind would send their kid to an abusive place, however do you think they freely volunteered this info to parents considering to send their child to this mind-fuckery center??

The answer is "HELL NO"[/color]... But for some reason or another you continiously try to do a little sales song and dance to the parents who come here and not expose the truth that abuse could be going on this very second in your little mind-fuckery factory and it would be covered up before any info got out.


Below is a story of abuse at a teen torture factory known as "Growing Together"

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

[TheWho]

  There is a big difference in rewarding a child for a job well done and being forced to change in fear of reprisal or extreme consequences.

They are both considered behavior modification.

The examples you give above do not compare with a child being stripped from their families, friends, and people that they trust. Having to endure "Fear Tactic" therapy. Suffering extreme consequences for not being submissive and allowing an unlicensed counselor get in their head and botch up the programming they are trying to do on the kids. Then the end result is a child who is emotionally and mentally broken. That's what happens when the average kid is traumatized in the programming process by brain butchers at programs.

I agree 100%.  There is no chance I would send any of my kids to a place like that nor would I suggest anyone send their children there.


...

The way you are trying to make it sound is like the parents knew what kind of place that they were putting their child in. I don't think any parent in  their right mind would send their kid to an abusive place, however do you think they freely volunteered this info to parents considering to send their child to this mind-fuckery center??

The answer is "HELL NO"[/color]... But for some reason or another you continiously try to do a little sales song and dance to the parents who come here and not expose the truth that abuse could be going on this very second in your little mind-fuckery factory and it would be covered up before any info got out.


Below is a story of abuse at a teen torture factory known as "Growing Together"

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... -together/

The parents do know what type of place they are sending their kids after they have done the research and decided on a program.  The majority of parents looking for a place for their children are not considering "military style boot camps" which is what your article is talking about, these are usually court ordered kids.  It has nothing to do with TBS.  I have read stories of what goes on in GITMO but that doesn’t relate to TBS's either.

I am not doing any sales dance, Botched, just trying to keep everything in perspective for the parents reading here thats all.  If you posted the article and said "For those parents considering a military style boot camp for your kids"  Check out this link......, then I would think you are on the up and up, but you seem to be selling your story as if it applies to the entire industry and it doesn’t.



...

[Botched Programming]

The parents do know what type of place they are sending their kids after they have done the research and decided on a program.  The majority of parents looking for a place for their children are not considering "military style boot camps" which is what your article is talking about, these are usually court ordered kids.  It has nothing to do with TBS.  I have read stories of what goes on in GITMO but that doesn’t relate to TBS's either.

Just for your information Straight, The Seed, Synanon, Kids Helping Kids, Growing Together, etc were not Military Style Boot Camps as you put it. They are were/are considered Adolescent Treatment Centers and nothing more, however we have gathered here on Fornits to spread the truth over lies..... We have had first hand experience from an inpatient/hostage standpoint in these facilities.

And as far as being court ordered, well not all the victims were court ordered, in fact only a small percent and to boot the program coerced a major portion of the parents to have the kid court ordered.

If TBS's are so great and wonderful, why

(1) Are the kids not allowed to stay at their own homes?
(2) Why are the kids not in a normal public style school?
(3) Why are they limited to who they can talk to?
(4) Why are they not allowed to go hit the malls, go to the movies with their friends, have sleepovers like normal teens?
(5) Why do they have to endure a situation that will cause PTSD that will last them a lifetime?




http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... g-together

[TheWho]

(1) Are the kids not allowed to stay at their own homes?

Because it is a boarding school

(2) Why are the kids not in a normal public style school?

Some of them where prior to attending the TBS.  They fell into an At-Risk category and their parents needed to pull them out or they stopped going on their own.

(3) Why are they limited to who they can talk to?

Some of the people they would talk to are part of the reason they are there, could be an abusive uncle, drug dealer, inappropriate friend, abusive boyfriend etc.

(4) Why are they not allowed to go hit the malls, go to the movies with their friends, have sleepovers like normal teens?

They can, they have movie nights where they go into town and see a movie, they can hang out together at night, canoeing, whitewater rafting, swimming, etc.

(5) Why do they have to endure a situation that will cause PTSD that will last them a lifetime?

They don’t.

[Botched Programming]

Just like the "Stay Puft" marshmellowman...... What you are selling is all fluff.

[Anne Bonney]

The parents do know what type of place they are sending their kids after they have done the research and decided on a program.  The majority of parents looking for a place for their children are not considering "military style boot camps" which is what your article is talking about, these are usually court ordered kids.  It has nothing to do with TBS.  I have read stories of what goes on in GITMO but that doesn’t relate to TBS's either.

Just for your information Straight, The Seed, Synanon, Kids Helping Kids, Growing Together, etc were not Military Style Boot Camps as you put it. They are were/are considered Adolescent Treatment Centers and nothing more, however we have gathered here on Fornits to spread the truth over lies..... We have had first hand experience from an inpatient/hostage standpoint in these facilities.

And as far as being court ordered, well not all the victims were court ordered, in fact only a small percent and to boot the program coerced a major portion of the parents to have the kid court ordered.


http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2004-12 ... g-together

Yep.  Straight was considered to be the latest and greatest in drug addiction and teen behavior problems.  Hell, Nancy Reagan came to visit while I was there.  Later on she brough Princess Di up to the Virginia program because they were so impressed with Straight and specifically Newton.

 :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm....  How does TheWho know about the hard work of doing things for oneself?  He was a trust-fund baby and given everything he has ever had.

Also, where were these "positive results" when TheWho's daughter came home and was engaged in heavy drinking and drug use, according to TheWho, "witihin hours of getting home"?  Sounds fishy.  TheWho is holding out this utter failure as success?  

He also didn't mention that his daughter fell on her face after "wilderness" and another forced stay at ASR for an additional 16 months.  How two programs over two years can be spun as "success" when the kid gets fucked up on drugs and booze as soon as she steps off the bus is beyond me.  

He also "forgot" to mention that his kid cut him off completely from her life and will not any longer see or talk to him.  Sure sounds like "success," alright!

People need to keep TheWho in perspective.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:


I'd say that sums his situation up.  LGATs work wonders, huh?  Eh, thought reform is thought reform.  Sad really.  At least the daughter's away from it now.  They'll probably end up like my father and I did.  What a shame.

 ::noway:: [sigh]

The daughter doesn't exist. “Thewhoâ€

[Anonymous]

(1) Why are the kids not allowed to stay at their own homes?
(2) Why are the kids not in a normal public style school?
(3) Why are they limited to who they can talk to?
(4) Why are they not allowed to go hit the malls, go to the movies with their friends, have sleepovers like normal teens?
(5) Why do they have to endure a situation that will cause PTSD that will last them a lifetime?

Let's try this again:

1) They can't stay in their own homes because the kids have abused the priviledge, while probably abusing each person in the home, so egregiously, that the parents, most likely in conjunction with several professionals, thought it was BEST to put the child in a therapeutic environment outside the home where the child feels entitled to privledges, and has grown accustomed to abusing everyone.

2) The kids are not in public school because they have abused the priviledge of receiving a public education, usually by failing academically, skipping school, scoffing at school rules and authority figures, and so on.  The kids probably had I am special "plans" and accommodations, but continued to abuse and ignore them.

3) These kids are limited in who they can talk to because they make bad decisions about who to talk to, and often because they manipulate who they talk to for personal gain, probably with negative consequences.  There is likely a pattern of repeated behavior in this regard.

4) Why can't they "hit the malls, go to movies and have sleepovers like normal teens"?  Are you kidding me?  Basically, because these kids are NOT normal teens.  See items 1-3 above.

5) Why do they have to endure something that will cause PTSD?  What a loaded, bullshit question.  PTSD has no specific cause.  It is a somewhat subjective disorder.  Five women might get raped, but only 1 have PTSD, for example.  Then again, a weaker-minded person might have to clean their room the same day they got a zit, and decide they have PTSD.  You sound like the latter.  

Grow up, dude.

[Anonymous]

(1) Why are the kids not allowed to stay at their own homes?
(2) Why are the kids not in a normal public style school?
(3) Why are they limited to who they can talk to?
(4) Why are they not allowed to go hit the malls, go to the movies with their friends, have sleepovers like normal teens?
(5) Why do they have to endure a situation that will cause PTSD that will last them a lifetime?

Let's try this again:

1) They can't stay in their own homes because the kids have abused the priviledge, while probably abusing each person in the home, so egregiously, that the parents, most likely in conjunction with several professionals, thought it was BEST to put the child in a therapeutic environment outside the home where the child feels entitled to privledges, and has grown accustomed to abusing everyone.

2) The kids are not in public school because they have abused the priviledge of receiving a public education, usually by failing academically, skipping school, scoffing at school rules and authority figures, and so on.  The kids probably had I am special "plans" and accommodations, but continued to abuse and ignore them.

3) These kids are limited in who they can talk to because they make bad decisions about who to talk to, and often because they manipulate who they talk to for personal gain, probably with negative consequences.  There is likely a pattern of repeated behavior in this regard.

4) Why can't they "hit the malls, go to movies and have sleepovers like normal teens"?  Are you kidding me?  Basically, because these kids are NOT normal teens.  See items 1-3 above.

5) Why do they have to endure something that will cause PTSD?  What a loaded, bullshit question.  PTSD has no specific cause.  It is a somewhat subjective disorder.  Five women might get raped, but only 1 have PTSD, for example.  Then again, a weaker-minded person might have to clean their room the same day they got a zit, and decide they have PTSD.  You sound like the latter.  

Grow up, dude.

 :agree:  :feedtrolls:  Thanks for keeping attention on this gulag interning and tortuing innocent American citizens. Love the equation of the trauma from rape to the "trauma" from a zit. Yep, these traumas are totally the same depending how weak your mind is!

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Oh wow, going through old posts is finding some super gems.

Funny how Whooter stopped talking about Sagewalk right after a kid got killed there and the place was shut down indefinitely, huh?

The overwhelming majority of kids that go thru Sagewalk do well and move on with their lives but there are always the few that leave early or do not benefit from the program and come on to fornits to try to make it seem like it is abusive.

Yuppers! Sergey Blashchishen sure did well, didn't he? He got out of the program early!