General Interest > Feed Your Head
Group Therapy increasing Drug Risk?????/
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---Oh, the link to WIRB worked, it just doesn't mention the study or even Canyon Research. Isn't that weird, if they oversaw the study as you claim? I'm guessing you can't substantiate this claim at all, so you're trying to wiggle out of it.
Just post the link to the WIRB page/content that says they "oversaw" and "audited" the Behrens "study." Looking at their site, it seems they never even heard of this study, much less had "oversight" or "audited" it. You just made that up and now you're flailing.
When you can support your claim about the WIRB and can provide the "one year follow-up" you keep touting, then we can move on to whatever else you want to explore. Until then, here we stay. You made a lot of claims, so let's just go one by one. I'm sure you have the proof. Don't hold out on us, lol.
--- End quote ---
lol sorry DJ, you are all over the place. You will just have to call them I am sure they dont want to publish a list of their clients on the internet or competitors to see.
click here
Down at the Bottom you will read:
To read more about this study, visit Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study
Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.
...
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---Whooter. Once again you claim to have posted independent, peer reviewed studies without actually having done so. No program can honestly claim a 80% success rate and any one that does is lying. Any honest addiction professional will tell you that.
And you keep posting the Behrens study. Jesus christ. That's been blown to shreds time and time again. It wasn't independent. It was a study that was funded by Aspen and conducted by a former staffer who currently refers to Aspen programs. Can that get any further from independent?
Here's a post I have bookmarked blowing the study away:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28834&start=0
And let's get back to Maia. Great article. I don't agree with everything she said but mostly I agree. Programs can easily make bad habits worse by indoctrinating kids into the idea that such bad behaviors are a part of their being, a disease, and cannot be changed. It teaches that whatever you do in life, your ability or inability to avoid drugs/alcohol is not a choice but something that is fated to be by a higher power. It's a doctrine that teaches the futility of the exercise of free will. Like Maia says "fatalism". One is supposed to "let go and let god (interpreted through your program representative)" because the exercise of free will is futile. It gives kids an excuse to give into their desires because they are told they are beyond their control (without the holy program).
Because they're also told those who are on drugs cannot control their behavior and are not responsible (it's the disease), they're also encouraged to act out, knowing that later they can simply follow the steps and be absolved of their sins. Personal responsibility goes out the window. Healthy feelings of guilt over hurting others goes out the window. Any amends are a selfish act of self "healing" or self preservation rather than out of genuine remorse. It's sick. It's bad enough when people are duped into it. It's even worse when kids are forced into it and have this crap shoved into their heads which, as Maia points out, is causing very very real damage. The philosophy is poison.
**which no matter how much Maia wants to pretend, is fundamentally inseparable from AA and it's relatives.
--- End quote ---
Psy,
this is where you are wrong, the only place where it is mentioned that Alcohol is a disease is in "The Doctors Opinion" by Dr. Silkworth. Bill Wilson actually had conflicting ideas about this study because he felt that people would not take responsibility for there problem, as you are saying.
Another thing Psy that I would like to explain, many folks"I" know do not believe in this "disease thought process" it is fatalistic, you never get better. We are not talking cancer necessarily but we are talking about a affliction that if used again can cause problems even death. This is very separable out in the real world concerning AA but I guess as I'm learning more it is not inseparable, the way it is being taught in 12 step programs.
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---DJ, what Whooter is doing is transparent to anybody with half a brain who reads this. There is no point in further arguing. Maybe we can get back to the topic of the thread.
--- End quote ---
Thank you. I asked this several posts ago, though I don't agree with you on your assessment of what Whooter is doing.
I still think we need to get back to the topic.
Troll Control:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---Oh, the link to WIRB worked, it just doesn't mention the study or even Canyon Research. Isn't that weird, if they oversaw the study as you claim? I'm guessing you can't substantiate this claim at all, so you're trying to wiggle out of it.
Just post the link to the WIRB page/content that says they "oversaw" and "audited" the Behrens "study." Looking at their site, it seems they never even heard of this study, much less had "oversight" or "audited" it. You just made that up and now you're flailing.
When you can support your claim about the WIRB and can provide the "one year follow-up" you keep touting, then we can move on to whatever else you want to explore. Until then, here we stay. You made a lot of claims, so let's just go one by one. I'm sure you have the proof. Don't hold out on us, lol.
--- End quote ---
lol sorry DJ, you are all over the place. You will just have to call them I am sure they dont want to publish a list of their clients on the internet or competitors to see.
click here
Down at the Bottom you will read:
To read more about this study, visit Canyon Research & Consulting: Independent research company that conducted the study
Western Institutional Review Board: Independent board that approved research and audited the study.
...
--- End quote ---
Soooo...now you're linking to Aspen Education to show that the WIRB "oversaw" a Canyon Research study? Lols. I guess now that you have been shown to be making it up you have to try to change gears. The WIRB never "oversaw" or "audited" the Behrens work, period. I think we both knew this, but you keep hacking away when you're pinned down.
I did call the WIRB and asked if they were a third party auditor for this study and they said "No, we weren't." I asked if their website reflected all of the projects they've untertaken and they siad "Yes, it does. Just use the search feature to pull up any of our research."
Go to their site and search for "Canyon" or "Behrens" and guess what you get? "Your search returned 0 results."
Ha, Ha, Ha... Nice try, Whooter, but you're not fooling anyone here. Just provide the proof where the WIRB states they "audited" or "oversaw" this project as you keep claiming and we can move on. A link to Aspen Education just doesn't suffice. They make a lot of false claims, as we all know.
As I said before, the WIRB seems never to have even heard of this study.
Froderik:
This THREAD is increasing my drug "risk."
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