STOP HR911 Already

[Rusty Goat]

Yep, give it up folks, HR911  :bs: , it's a bad idea that's only getting worse with the BP oil spill and the economy. Fess up, it's doomed. I don't understand how survivors think this bill is a good idea, but whatever. To each their own.  ::poke::

[Che Gookin]

^this.. Not even a good start in the right direction. More like a good roll in a pile of stinky shit.

[Froderik]

Yep, give it up folks, HR911  :bs: , it's a bad idea that's only getting worse with the BP oil spill and the economy. Fess up, it's doomed. I don't understand how survivors think this bill is a good idea, but whatever. To each their own.  ::poke::

I don't know enough about it to agree or disagree with this, but would like to know more...

[DannyB II]

Yep, give it up folks, HR911  :bs: , it's a bad idea that's only getting worse with the BP oil spill and the economy. Fess up, it's doomed. I don't understand how survivors think this bill is a good idea, but whatever. To each their own.  ::poke::

I don't know enough about it to agree or disagree with this, but would like to know more...

I second that.....

[SUCK IT]

A free market allowing many different types of adolescent treamtent options will yield the best results, the quickest. The programs that have more unsatisfied parents and teens ultimately fall by the wayside, while the more effective and sought after types of treatment thrive. Parents know what is best for their kids, and they also listen to their kids when they get home and pass off this information. Government intervention is not going to help any kid, it will only stifle new and creative ways of treatment current adolescent issues and hamper new competition.  Where would you rather go, to fedex or the post office? Would you rather go to a government run hospital or a private hospital? Its the same with treatment centers for adolescents. The free market works, parents and people in the industry knows what works not some government beuracrat interested in new tax revenue and control.

[Rusty Goat]

well, come down and jam for a while whilst we discuss it...  :jamin:   :rasta:

Yep, give it up folks, HR911  :bs: , it's a bad idea that's only getting worse with the BP oil spill and the economy. Fess up, it's doomed. I don't understand how survivors think this bill is a good idea, but whatever. To each their own.  ::poke::

I don't know enough about it to agree or disagree with this, but would like to know more...

[anythinganyone]

A free market allowing many different types of adolescent treamtent options will yield the best results, the quickest. The programs that have more unsatisfied parents and teens ultimately fall by the wayside, while the more effective and sought after types of treatment thrive.

Except the result of attending a poor program is much worse than being "unsatisfied".  Honestly, look at the Gilded Age in the U.S.'s history, which ran under a similar principle.  It wasn't until the Progressive Era where laws were passed by that pesky government did accurate advertising and sanitary labor conditions and products develop.

Parents know what is best for their kids,

This is not always the case, and you know it.  Parents are regular people with faults, some more severe than others.  Not every parent holds a doctorate degree in child and adolescent psychology.  It would be fair to say that sometimes parents are not as informed or understanding as they would ideally be.  They can also be deceived like anyone else.  In addition, some parents are abusive, and please be aware that often abusive parents are not purposefully plotting to ruin their child's lives.  They often just fail or refuse to realise the seriousness or danger of what they commit, even thinking it is for their child's own good.

and they also listen to their kids when they get home and pass off this information.

This is also not always the case, and you know that as well.

Government intervention is not going to help any kid, it will only stifle new and creative ways of treatment current adolescent issues and hamper new competition.

Hampering options which have the potential to be dangerous, I would say, is not a bad idea.  Now, I may just be building a straw-man, but if I recall correctly, you do not advocate drug legalisation.  If this is the case, I could hypothetically argue that drugs being illegal stifles new and creative forms of therapy and medicine.

Where would you rather go, to fedex or the post office? Would you rather go to a government run hospital or a private hospital?

However, a private hospital still has to follow government regulations.  They can not just offer experimental, "new and creative", possibly dangerous ways of doing things legally outside these regulations.  I'm sure if a fair number of patients got very sick in a private hospital on account of neglect, the government would step in.

[Eliscu2]

911 need I say more? :poison:

[Oscar]

A free market allowing many different types of adolescent treamtent options will yield the best results, the quickest. The programs that have more unsatisfied parents and teens ultimately fall by the wayside, while the more effective and sought after types of treatment thrive. Parents know what is best for their kids, and they also listen to their kids when they get home and pass off this information. Government intervention is not going to help any kid, it will only stifle new and creative ways of treatment current adolescent issues and hamper new competition.  Where would you rather go, to fedex or the post office? Would you rather go to a government run hospital or a private hospital? Its the same with treatment centers for adolescents. The free market works, parents and people in the industry knows what works not some government beuracrat interested in new tax revenue and control.

Before you can have unsatisfied parents and teens, someone needs to be sacrificed. Who is volunteering their child to test a new program out?

If I was a parent seeking for a program, I would prefer some level of regulation. Most residential treatment has its flaws when it comes to months or years aftercare which should included in the overall packet. Parents are not aware of that and even HR911 is lacking at this point. It should be mandated to give this information to the families.

[Rusty Goat]

You had your chance to educate the public and end the abusive programs. Now you want the government to regulate them even though they have been abusing and killing kids for a very long time. What's the point? Don't compromise. STOP HR911 NOW!    :beat:

[Pile of Dead Kids]

What I think most people on this topic are missing is that the programs can't exist in an environment where some authority they can't bribe (Here's looking at you, Ken Stettler!) has oversight. Regulation, etc will simply cause them to shut down; if HR911 passes it'll likely go a good way towards breaking the back of the bulk of programs in Utah, finish off Aspen in one shot if they're not dying already, absolutely cripple the religious bullshit, and put an end to various other places listed on Fornits.

The objection to HR911 is that it will create a new class of government-sanctioned programs. This isn't going to happen. Feds are more like the Oregon DHS than Utah state cops.

[SUCK IT]

Before you can have unsatisfied parents and teens, someone needs to be sacrificed. Who is volunteering their child to test a new program out?

Parents who have tried everything else, with no results. Parents with troubled teens who are intent on destroying themselves, as I was, don't give up they just try something new. Well some parents might give up, I don't know. But I'm glad my parents did not. Suicide is in the top 3 killers of adolescents, so we know that doing nothing is dangerous as well, although this is rarely mentioned on fornits for some reason. Apparently, only the suicides after someone goes through treatment count as political points to end the treatment industry. Many kids suffer because their parents ignore the symptoms and don't seek help for their teen, this is something completely ignored on this forum.

[SUCK IT]

However, a private hospital still has to follow government regulations.  They can not just offer experimental, "new and creative", possibly dangerous ways of doing things legally outside these regulations.  I'm sure if a fair number of patients got very sick in a private hospital on account of neglect, the government would step in.

I've been in treatment run by the government, and I'd take private treatment programs any day of the week over that. If I had to pinpoint the most negative part of my entire treatment experience, it involves the state hospital/police. The worst things I ever saw were in the regulated hospitals and rehabs I was in, so that's where I'm coming from.

[Rusty Goat]

Hey P of DK, have been and may very well still be programs that have licenses that are subjected myriads of rules, regulations, etc... They've abused kids and had the full support of the Feds, States, politicians, you name it. It's not until the PUBLIC starts outcrying that these places run and hide, move, shut down, etc... All the government does is waste more taxpayer dollars doing the jobs of ordinary citizens. We don't need any more government support of programs. Are you familiar with the EPA? Case in point, if a company discharges 100 tons of nitrogen dioxide into the atmosphere every year, all they have to do is pay a pollution permit fee ( license) and walla... up go the fumes... We still sleep at night breathing that shit, but it's ok, they paid their fees and have a license. As long as they don't hold the exhaust pipe up the nose of the inspectors, they'll keep polluting (by law) and everything will be just fine. I know you already know that the US has not signed the UN Charter regarding abuse, etc... right? Ya'll are kidding yourselves if you think the government will make this industry better.  :cheers:

[Rusty Goat]

my above reply was supposed to start with "There" :ftard: