How European Tolerance Islamized Turkey...

[ajax13]

You are killing me.  Reminds me of Jonathan Swift or Oscar Wilde.  That litle spin-o-rama where you claim that your fear of an abstract idea is not a phobia because it's rational is hilarious.  You have definitely demonsrated the absurdity of alleging a rational fear of an ideology rather than a people, when of course no ideology can perpetrate violent acts, only people can.  And then, just when it looks like you can't top that crystalline piece of anti-logic, you throw in that hilarious bit of stereotypical deduction about Canadians and hate speech.  Some people object to the use of so-called "sock-puppets", but I think that you were quite adept at demonstrating bigotry and manipulation.  Provocative, and funny as hell.

[Stonewall]

You are on fire Stonewall.  That double-speak you use is a spot-on satire of the kind of manipulative denial used by bigotted fascists for decades.  I almost bought the idea there that you are so ignorant that you're unaware that the immense and sophisticated civilization of the Arab empire and how these muslims rescued and promoted the work of the Classic Western Civilizations while Christian Europe had degenerated into barbarism.  But then I clued in that you were just putting everyone on!  That bit about acquittal of Mohammed is clever and funny, and just as preposterous as acquitting Thomas Jefferson for the millions of Vietnamese killed during the US attack on Vietnam, or the tens of thousands of Iraqis killed in the more recent US invasion of Iraq.  Using satire the way you do is a great way to point out the incoherence of the hatred directed against millions of the world's citizens for their spiritual beliefs.  Acquit Mohammed and the Talmud, too.  Very funny stuff.

I'm not putting anyone on. And, one thing I won't do is attack you.

I understand that your attacks on me are based on ignorance.

I do not fear Islam... at all. I understand Islam. It's not very difficult. Even a caveman can do it... and they do.

What you have to ask yourself is why you would defend Islam. Why would you defend a Pedophile? A Murderer. A thief. A liar.

I would have an easier time defending the followers of Charles Manson.

[ajax13]

The laughs keep coming with you Stony!  You jumped right in and equated Islam, an abstract series of ideas, with a person.  Or is the pedophile, murderer, thief and liar more than one person?  It's great to see someone with such a sense of humor poking fun at prejudice.  You do a tremendous job pretending to be illogical and hate-driven.

[Stonewall]

The laughs keep coming with you Stony!  You jumped right in and equated Islam, an abstract series of ideas, with a person.  Or is the pedophile, murderer, thief and liar more than one person?  It's great to see someone with such a sense of humor poking fun at prejudice.  You do a tremendous job pretending to be illogical and hate-driven.

Islamic Law does not come from an abstract series of ideas.

It comes from Muhammad.

Islam is the religion of Muhammad. He created it.

Don't blame me...

[ajax13]

Stony, you are one wacky ol' Hasbaranik.  Pretending that the fact that Islamic law coming from Muhammed was mutually exclusive of the fact that it is a series of abstract ideas.  That is some hilarious stuff.  You must slay them in the Catskills!

[Stonewall]

Stony, you are one wacky ol' Hasbaranik.  Pretending that the fact that Islamic law coming from Muhammed was mutually exclusive of the fact that it is a series of abstract ideas.  That is some hilarious stuff.  You must slay them in the Catskills!

What is the basis of Islamic Law?

[IslamIsViolent]

Or is the pedophile, murderer, thief and liar more than one person?

Pedophile: Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and had sex with her at 9.  This is stated very clearly in the Hadiths and since Muhammad is the ideal muslim, his actions are what justifies child marriage in the middle east today.

Murderer: He personally beheaded between 600 and 900 jewish men in one sitting.  He was a warlord.

Rapist: He took the women as slaves or "wives" and raped them.  He permitted his followers to take captured women as "war booty" and to rape them.

Thief: He was a raider early in his career.

Liar: In addition to pulling an entire religion out of his ass he also permitted his followers to lie in order to deceive the enemy or assassinate those who insulted him.

[ajax13]

Sockpuppet, I can't address the veracity of your claim about Mohammed's beheading of his enemies, but if true, then in addition to your descriptions of him as thief, pedophile etc., one must certainly add the title of athlete.  Six to nine hundred beheadings in one go is a feat of physical prowess of some remark.  As for the uncertainty in the number of 50%, it causes me some degree of dismay about the whole story.  Nonetheless, whether the total is six hundred or six thousand, the slaying of one's enemies does not seem out of step with the zeitgeist of the sixth or seventh century.  It brings to mind the behaviour of other folks in the realm of the long-dead and ultra-violent:
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.   (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)"

[Stonewall]

Sockpuppet, I can't address the veracity of your claim about Mohammed's beheading of his enemies, but if true, then in addition to your descriptions of him as thief, pedophile etc., one must certainly add the title of athlete.  Six to nine hundred beheadings in one go is a feat of physical prowess of some remark.  As for the uncertainty in the number of 50%, it causes me some degree of dismay about the whole story.  Nonetheless, whether the total is six hundred or six thousand, the slaying of one's enemies does not seem out of step with the zeitgeist of the sixth or seventh century.  It brings to mind the behaviour of other folks in the realm of the long-dead and ultra-violent:
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women.  These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.  Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people.  The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel."  So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor.  Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle.  When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly.  Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach.  So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died.   (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)"

Actually it is quite easy to find Islamic sources for descriptions of Muhammad's beheadings.

Perhaps you are right that in the seventh century this was normal behavior. Unfortunately when it is commanded that Muslims view Muhammad's life as perfect and a life to be emulated, it should be no surprise that his followers bring the 7th Century into their daily lives.

[ajax13]

You're swinging for the bleachers again Stony.  Now with Mohammed having drawn his last breath a couple of hundred years before the Battle of Hastings, it is certainly requires a leap of faith, so to speak, to imagine that any of his followers are alive today.

[IslamIsViolent]

Yes, Ajax, there is a lot of violence in the old testament but unless you are a Moabite, a Hittite, or whatever, you have nothing to worry about.  There are no current commands to kill anybody.  In Islam the commands to kill (or beat your wife) are current and have never been abrogated.  



All good Muslims must fight:

Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

Muslims who do not fight or make friends with Unbelievers are considered as low as Unbelievers themselves:

Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Why terrorism is allowed as a tactic in Islam:

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"

Unbelievers, including people of the book (christians and ews) must convert, pay tribute (jizya) and live under islamic rule, or die (the entire of Sura 9 is about this):

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

These verses, and hundreds like it, are current and abrogate all chronologically previous peaceful verses.  I challenge you to find one current command to kill anybody in the Bible.

I can't imagine you approve of wife beating either:

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Allah is Great indeed /sarcasm
 ::fullofshit::

And the massacre I'm referring to by Muhammad was at Qurayza, though the killing of jews was hardly limited to there.  Khaybar is another good example and remains an inspiration to Muslims today.  Take the "peaceful" protesters on the Marmara who not only declared their wish for martyrdom but aslo sang wonderful songs such as "Remember Khaybar, oh jews, the army of Muhammad is returning".

[none-ya]

PLEASE. Lets not for get. Nazi Germany was a white christian nation.

[......]

[attachment=0:m3dl4vxu]TERRORIST.jpg[/attachment:m3dl4vxu]

[ajax13]

Sockpuppet, you are going to have to work on your act if you want to follow up Stony.  The part where you claimed that Allah was great, qualified by the word sarcasm, and then called the Marmara protesters peaceful, with no such qualifer, is entertaining, but it's not in the same league with Stony.  I do put your account of the singing on the Marmara up there with the six hundred, or nine hundred, beheadings in an afternoon workout.  
Now I must confess to being a little dubious about the singing on the Marmara.  Here's an account though, from someone who was there:
"I said this straight to Israeli agents, probably of Mossad or Shin Bet, and I say it again now, on the morning of the attack I was directly involved in the disarming of two Israeli Commandos. This was a forcible, non-negotiable, separation of weapons from commandos who had already murdered two brothers that I had seen that day. One brother with a bullet entering dead center in his forehead, in what appeared to be an execution. I knew the commandos were murdering when I removed a 9mm pistol from one of them. I had that gun in my hands and as an ex-US Marine with training in the use of guns it was completely within my power to use that gun on the commando who may have been the murderer of one of my brothers. But that is not what I, nor any other defender of the ship did. I took that weapon away, removed the bullets, proper lead bullets, separated them from the weapon and hid the gun. I did this in the hopes that we would repel the attack and submit this weapon as evidence in a criminal trial against Israeli authorities for mass murder."
 http://www.sott.net/articles/show/21006 ... -Detention

Here is something that I found truly remarkable, in light of Stony's prior claims about the potential martial prowess of the IDF:
“They weren’t up to0 Marine Corps standards, not by a long shot.  I disarmed one of their commandos who had just murdered a camera man who was filming their attack, shot him in the forehead at point blank range.  

I took his pistol from him, unloaded it and took him into custody.  He had a minor injury, in fact, hadn’t put up much of a fight at all.  We got him medical care but what I noticed most of all was that he just wouldn’t stop crying.  These were not combat vets, they weren’t even disciplined soldiers.”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/07/24 ... l-illness/

[none-ya]

Pork chops and swine flu for everybody.