Thank you, Fornits!

[maruska]

I found Fornits a couple of years ago. We were going through a very hard phase with our daughter and I was looking for solutions and I was interested to know, how other people survive teenage years of their children:) I found all those glossy program sites and learned, that my daughter would qualify for most of them. The programs looked interesting, even tempting:) I never knew before such programs existed, because we do not have them in Europe. On the surface everything looked so great, so logical...Then my friend told me about an American program that was opened in our country and closed due to child abuse after a couple of months....you would not send your daughter to such a place, are you crazy or what ?! she told me:)
 Child abuse?! I started to digg deeper.And then I found Fornits and  started reading....

All survivors who shared their stories helped me to better understand my daughter. And by learning more about programs I realized what I am doing wrong in our own home, for example that restrictions and punishments are a road to hell ...So this place has been therapeutic for me too.

Trust me, I can understand the parents desperation when you think you are losing your child and everything you try is in vain...To this day I am not sure why her puberty was so difficult. I can only guess: maybe I was too overprotective and she needed more space. Maybe she needed to rebel against everything just to find her own way . Maybe I pressured her too hard to see the world as I see it...maybe.
Today is my daughter 18 and I am so proud of her! She matured, she is amazing, she is talented and beautiful, a free spirit. I see the young woman she is becoming and I love what I see. She went through a difficult time  and we all survived as a family and we learned so much becase of  her, our family is stronger and closer today then ever. She changed...and we did,too. We are a living example that you can do it without a program:))
 

So I want to thank you all: all the survivors, all the people who come to Fornits and post. I am grateful to you.

[Samara]

So glad to hear your daughter is doing well!  It's so hard to know what path to take at times!

[Whooter]

I found fornits after I had sent my daughter to a program and fornits has given me perspective on the multifacets of programs.  Fornits showed me that there were programs which were abusive and that not all kids were helped by them.  So I was able to gain a broader perspective of the industry by reading here and I thank fornits for that.   The discussion fascinated me which drove me to understand why some kids did well while others did not.  Was is a lack of commitment on the child’s end?  Did they not apply themselves enough?  Were they in the wrong program or should they have not been there at all?  Did the program abuse them or a staff member?  The biggest fascination was the inability that many posters have here to discuss the industry openly and look at the good with the bad.  Why would anyone work so hard to cancel out or negate another person perspective?  What would cause a person to become this way?  I don’t blame the posters here, rather I am curious as to the cause.

But mostly I have learned that parents have a tough choice to make like Maruska mentioned.  Some kids get through the rough patches at home and others need a little extra help and most parents for some reason are able to chose the right path for their child.



...

[Antigen]

Maruska, that's so good to hear! It's always been my hope that just airing the topic without strong arm controls would lead to better understanding of the issue. So good to hear that your kid went and grew up naturally and all's well with your family.

[The Elan Reporter]

Ah yes, the power of the internet and the millions that surf it. Places like elan thought they were a shoe in for getting paid to abuse a teen for infinity. Well thanks to the internet, there is justice and places like this has made a negative finacial impact on places like elan cause more and more people who are about to give up on their teen are educating themselves at sites like this one. You can come up with the lamest excuse to have any of these programs to admit your child, all they care about is the money. If they really cared and really wanted to broadcast a good imagine of themselves, they would take on charity cases and wave all fees for caring. Then again, I wouldn't doubt that idea has crossed Martin Krugliks shit brain, so that he could get more teens to abuse. After all, he has grown accustomed and living very comfortable on his $350 a week salary.
A law should be passed where these so called theaputic residential places have to provide a link to places like fornots on their website, so people can really see what goes on.

[DannyB II]

Maruska,
This is good to hear, means parents are finding ways to humble themselves. The controlling and subtle abuse starts at home first from parent to child, the parents are just acting as their parents acted in some cases. Children act out, they don't really know what is making them unhappy, angry, depressed otherwise moody. As they act out parents respond alike and it can escalate. Before you know it the parents believe you deserve a program and endorse the punishment the program offers. All down hill from there.
My problem with this set of circumstances that plays out often is the kid is taught that whenever he developes a problem within himself either mentally or  emotionally it is his fault, it is bad, it will turn out bad, he will receive no help, that he will be alone. Rejection from parents is a deadly position to place a child in especially when he/she is experiencing growing pains.
Whooter that was/is my biggest problem with most programs I was in and programs I still visit, the premise that the child has been bad, is a problem which reinforces the rejection. Programs/parents have to remember that 13,14 and 15 yr old children are still that, kids. You remember don't you. TC's try way to hard to make a child grow up faster then they should. Being in a program is not a natural experience that a child would have growing up, no matter how hard they try.
Having problems with puberty is , relationship dilemmas are, flunking school is, smoking pot and drinking is, ect.....Yes it makes living with the child difficult but not impossible. You know this.
Now attempting suicide repetitively, severe disabilities such as Autism, Bi-Polar, Severe ADHD or Chronic drug abuse with Criminal behavior, now these circumstances can be a problem not always solved easily and you may need help with a specialized program. I know one thing, I told myself if I had to let my children go for whatever reason they would know I was there, always.  
I personally never had to make that decision thank god, my children grew up without the need, definitely not because of me......lol. I'm nuts,damaged goods (that is not totally true). Their mom gave them their stability, she was a very principled women, my family was also there.
Maruska thanks......

danny

[Paul St. John]

y children grew up without the need, definitely not because of me......lol. I'm nuts,damaged goods (that is not totally true)

Honestly, Danny, it is not smart to think like this at all.  The past is over.  What you do from here on in, is up to you.

Paul

[DannyB II]

y children grew up without the need, definitely not because of me......lol. I'm nuts,damaged goods (that is not totally true)

Honestly, Danny, it is not smart to think like this at all.  The past is over.  What you do from here on in, is up to you.

Paul

Paul are you still on the kick that I need help. I appreciate you concern if it is legit. I was being a lill tongue in cheek there buddy. Self deprecation is part of my humor. I don't take myself or life very seriously Paul, never think that laughing at yourself is wrong. I have had my best stomach wrenching laughs on behalf of me. I'm just fine.

Danny

[SharonMcCarthy]

y children grew up without the need, definitely not because of me......lol. I'm nuts,damaged goods (that is not totally true)

Honestly, Danny, it is not smart to think like this at all.  The past is over.  What you do from here on in, is up to you.

Paul

Paul are you still on the kick that I need help. I appreciate you concern if it is legit. I was being a lill tongue in cheek there buddy. Self deprecation is part of my humor. I don't take myself or life very seriously Paul, never think that laughing at yourself is wrong. I have had my best stomach wrenching laughs on behalf of me. I'm just fine.

Danny

Danny you do need help its not a kick it is reality...Get help.

[SUCK IT]

Europe? Not exactly the target demographic of most treatment programs. This is program politics mixed with international nationalism and I can see why a European would take this web site more seriously than would an American who is familiar with the culture. This is the same sort of emotional thank you that is found on many cult sites such as anti vaccine sites. Thank you for helping me realize the truth, but guess what? They are wrong and even though their heart might be in the right place, they are ignorant and steering people away from vaccinations even though they are generally safe. This is very similar to the program argument here on fornits.

Sure there are rare cases of problems, but the reason you post about it on fornits and talk about it and show it off to parents is because the system worked. They get caught, punished and the news reports on it and the program improves and works hard not to repeat mistakes. Fornits would have you believe it is sinister evil people in charge milking idiotic parents for every cent but this isn't the case. This is a website where AA is a bad organization, and yes that is a good example to where on the political spectrum the opinions here are. They are very extreme compared to most people, and that is why there are so few posters here. Only an extreme minority would feel comfortable or fit in around such extremist views and personalities.

This parent sounds like they are right on the line of whether they need outside help or not. Many parents have these debates in their own family, in their own head when deciding. There will always be this grey area where parents have a tough time deciding, but this is the shallow end of the spectrum. Most parents who send their kids are desperate and need help and they know that their kid is going to end up in trouble or worse. What if a single mother has a son, instead of a daughter, who is violent and disobedient? What if this single mother, who's son is 6', 200 lbs, brings his friends after school and does drugs inside his room every day? She is frightened for her son and that another teen might die in her house. Should she call the police and have them all arrested? Or what if she loves her son, and decides to send him to private treatment outside the realm of government involvement? Which one is worse? This is a much more common scenario than the mythical innocent child living without sin kidnapped at midnight we often hear about on this forum. You'd think adolescent treatment programs are filled with a bunch of Jesus' based on their own descriptions of themselves, but this is definitely not true.

To ignore this reality is necessary to harbor such extremists views as those posted here, so it's not surprising most fornits posters wish to frame the treatment debate in simple and loaded terms, aimed at proving their agenda that all treatment is inherently abusive and ineffective. But put on the shoes of the single mother, with a linebacker sized son who is violent and no longer respects her authority. He uses her house as a drug house with his friends, and comes and goes as he pleases. This is a much more typical scenario and most parents using treatment programs are literally at their wits end. If the posters here ignore this reality they might continue to pick off some low hanging fruit, like the poster here who said thank you, but you will continue to ignore that largest portion of those in treatment programs, the truly troubled teen. If you really wanted to help kids you would work to improve treatment programs, or even start your own, than just throw stones and judge others for trying their best.

[Anne Bonney]

Europe? Not exactly the target demographic of most treatment programs. This is program politics mixed with international nationalism and I can see why a European would take this web site more seriously than would an American who is familiar with the culture. This is the same sort of emotional thank you that is found on many cult sites such as anti vaccine sites. Thank you for helping me realize the truth, but guess what? They are wrong and even though their heart might be in the right place, they are ignorant and steering people away from vaccinations even though they are generally safe. This is very similar to the program argument here on fornits.

Sometimes I cannot believe the amount of projection that you guys are capable of.

That's exactly what we're saying about the blind devotion that you see to programs.  That's exactly what we mean when we question positive experiences of people coming out of programs that truly are known to be abusive.  Call it what you want...stockholm syndrome, whatever but said people cannot tolerate anything critical of they're perceived "savior".  That's one of the many reasons people find AA similar.

Sure there are rare cases of problems, but the reason you post about it on fornits and talk about it and show it off to parents is because the system worked. They get caught, punished and the news reports on it and the program improves and works hard not to repeat mistakes. Fornits would have you believe it is sinister evil people in charge milking idiotic parents for every cent but this isn't the case. This is a website where AA is a bad organization, and yes that is a good example to where on the political spectrum the opinions here are. They are very extreme compared to most people, and that is why there are so few posters here. Only an extreme minority would feel comfortable or fit in around such extremist views and personalities.

^^^Case in point.  Said people refuse to acknowledge that there is something systemically and morally wrong with the confrontational/humiliation/peer pressure method of "treatment".....the breaking them down to build them up deal.....end justifies the means.  Never mind that many of the kids that end up there really don't have anything major or sinister wrong with them.  Quite often, they're typical teens whose parents are either freaking out, control freaks, jesus freaks etc.  For the few cases where real help IS needed, it won't be found in the places that operate on the belief that they have to break the child in order to "help" them.

This parent sounds like they are right on the line of whether they need outside help or not. Many parents have these debates in their own family, in their own head when deciding. There will always be this grey area where parents have a tough time deciding, but this is the shallow end of the spectrum. Most parents who send their kids are desperate and need help and they know that their kid is going to end up in trouble or worse. What if a single mother has a son, instead of a daughter, who is violent and disobedient? What if this single mother, who's son is 6', 200 lbs, brings his friends after school and does drugs inside his room every day? She is frightened for her son and that another teen might die in her house. Should she call the police and have them all arrested? Or what if she loves her son, and decides to send him to private treatment outside the realm of government involvement? Which one is worse? This is a much more common scenario than the mythical innocent child living without sin kidnapped at midnight we often hear about on this forum. You'd think adolescent treatment programs are filled with a bunch of Jesus' based on their own descriptions of themselves, but this is definitely not true.

See?  ^^

Adolescence is not a disorder.

To ignore this reality is necessary to harbor such extremists views as those posted here, so it's not surprising most fornits posters wish to frame the treatment debate in simple and loaded terms, aimed at proving their agenda that all treatment is inherently abusive and ineffective. But put on the shoes of the single mother, with a linebacker sized son who is violent and no longer respects her authority. He uses her house as a drug house with his friends, and comes and goes as he pleases. This is a much more typical scenario and most parents using treatment programs are literally at their wits end. If the posters here ignore this reality they might continue to pick off some low hanging fruit, like the poster here who said thank you, but you will continue to ignore that largest portion of those in treatment programs, the truly troubled teen. If you really wanted to help kids you would work to improve treatment programs, or even start your own, than just throw stones and judge others for trying their best.

Projection in it's true form.  ^^^^^