Author Topic: Are there good ones?  (Read 6393 times)

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Offline sad

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Are there good ones?
« on: June 02, 2010, 11:26:00 AM »
Reading through many posts and threads here I am horrified at the abuse that occurs at certain facilities! My heart goes out to all those who have had to endure such cruelty. I do hope you have successfully prosecuted your abusers.
Are there any links to lawsuits filed/settled/won?

Is there a list of 'good' facilities?
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 11:41:53 AM »
No. Not that market themselves as "residential treatment centers". There are alternative boarding schools, like the ones your daughter's school is talking about, which look to be a net "meh, it's a boarding school, she goes there, grows up, gets an education" which are only partially isolated. There are psychiatric wards, and the juvenile justice system, both dealing with social necessities.

But the kind of place you're looking for- a place where you can just send your kid to some remote corner of Utah, not have to worry, and have her mysteriously fixed when she gets out- it not only doesn't exist, it can't.

Is she self-harming? Then she needs a good, long talk with a real psychiatrist, ASAP. You said no criminal record, so that I'm guessing precludes serious drug use or violent instabilities. So what the hell's the problem, then?

You know what? Let *her* talk to us. Because if nothing else we can say "Hey, listen, things have gotten to the point where your mother is seriously considering sending you somewhere really, really bad, so the two of you HAVE to be patient with each other, or REALLY BAD SHIT is going to happen- oh and here's 1000 pages of really bad shit".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline sad

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 11:46:11 AM »
Are there any links to lawsuits that have been successfully settled/won against facilities that have caused harm to the children ?
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 11:54:23 AM »
Quote from: "sad"
Are there any links to lawsuits that have been successfully settled/won against facilities that have caused harm to the children ?


A few.  Two from my time in Straight (early 80s) sued and won.  Most of the time it's swept under the rug.  Quite a few have been hiked to death in wilderness camps, with varying degrees of accountability (usually minimal, if at all).  Some have been restrained to death.  And then there's the ever-growing list of suicides.  These shitholes really are no place for anyone, let alone someone who is genuinely troubled to begin with.
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 11:59:49 AM »
Quite a number. Thing is, most lawsuits end in settlement, or are never made public.

Hidden Lake Academy had a high-profile class-action lawsuit against it; that's all over the HLA board. viewforum.php?f=41
WWASPS has been sued repeatedly. viewtopic.php?t=21918&start=13
CEDU was pretty much sued out of existence. http://www.mountain-news.com/articles/2 ... /news1.txt
Aspen's been sued and lost, and this Sagewalk article speaks for itself. http://www.momlogic.com/2010/04/trouble ... harges.php Mount Bachelor Academy also got shut down for child abuse. http://kohd.com/news/local/147574
So was Straight, Inc, but that died in the 80s, spawning a number of spin-offs, but that's a different branch of torture.

The problem is that these places come and go like vermin. One goes down, the program owners relocate somewhere else, and another pops up. The legal process is often too slow, and the kids often take years to realize "wait, what happened to me in there was real abuse".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 12:06:31 PM »
Oh, and there's Peninsula Village! I almost forgot about that place. A regular here, ZenAgent, sued them for what they did to his daughter (it's really unspeakable shit), but I'm not entirely sure how that ended.

http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=The_Village
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 12:10:07 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
So was Straight, Inc, but that died in the 80s, spawning a number of spin-offs, but that's a different branch of torture.

1993 was the official end, IIRC.

Quote
The problem is that these places come and go like vermin. One goes down, the program owners relocate somewhere else, and another pops up. The legal process is often too slow, and the kids often take years to realize "wait, what happened to me in there was real abuse".


Yup. Or they just change names or shuffle some staff around claiming that all the "bad apples" are now gone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 12:25:14 PM »
This'll be my third post in a row, and I don't usually do that, but I keep on thinking of more and more links to share. There's just so much of it.

Phil Elberg is somewhat of a folk hero around here. KIDS is a Straight spinoff. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... _kids.html

Note the two links in my signature. Remember, most of these suits are kept completely private- the program doesn't want the information getting out, the victim wants to preserve his or her privacy, and the judge doesn't want the media sensation interfering with the trial. Hence: Information blackout. But the lawyers know. And two of them are openly advertising, knowing that they can make money from more of these lawsuits. Remember, we're talking about lawyers here; most of them wouldn't do anything unless they got money out of it, and the only way for them to make money is if they could prove abuse in a court of law.

And remember, proving abuse in court is one of the hardest things to do. First you need to prove that things happened a certain way- and getting witnesses is hard as fuck here, especially when the program will character-assassinate all of them the moment they hit the stand- then you need to prove it, in fact, was abuse, and this is harder than it seems. Oh and you need to pray to fucking God that the judge isn't amicable towards the program. (Think I'm kidding? The Judge Rotenberg Center, one of the worst shitholes ever to be conceived, named itself after the judge that let it continue to exist.)

But with all those hurdles, these self-interested lawyers remain confident that abuse is happening, to the point where they can prove it in court!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline sad

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 01:35:28 PM »
Thanks for the links; I will take a look at them.
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 01:49:41 PM »
Enjoy the nightmares.

Ready to pull your daughter out yet?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline psy

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 02:46:52 PM »
Quote from: "sad"
Reading through many posts and threads here I am horrified at the abuse that occurs at certain facilities! My heart goes out to all those who have had to endure such cruelty. I do hope you have successfully prosecuted your abusers.
Are there any links to lawsuits filed/settled/won?

Is there a list of 'good' facilities?
The main site that documented all the lawsuits (isaccorp.org) is offline at the moment but there have indeed been many.  To answer your question as to whether there are any good ones... Sure.  But it's impossible to tell the good ones from the bad just by looking at them.  Isaccorp also has warning signs which you can look at which are mirrorred here:

http://www.nospank.net/caica01.htm

Look.  My advice is that what your kid needs is guidance from you and love.  I know it might seem like you tried everything but there are real options at home to consider.  In my view a residential program is not worth the risk and there are no independent studies, not a single one, showing that wilderness or residential care actually work.  Some more information on that here:

http://astart.fmhi.usf.edu/

And by all means, whatever your decision, keep us all informed.  Many of us have been through bad programs and know the sorts of things to look for and the signs of a bad program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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Offline walkedthere

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 02:52:48 PM »
Sad ... as you can see, "Pile" is such a positive, helpful source of unbiased information.  Still, I hold to what I said before.  

To make your case for your local school paying for a placement other than from their state list, you should start with thte information/assessment and recommendations from the psychologist and/or licensed therapist who has spent time with her at the present wilderness program.  That likely will support something more intensive, and a better fit than what the state lists.  Also compile relevant facts, like space availability, program design/structure (including presence or absence of weekend therapeutic activities) for them as well as for other places you might prefer.  Finally, compile corresponding data for the type of student each place takes (including severity of problem) and average time to complete their program -- and I do mean complete, which is not the same as average stay.  Put all together, I think it a good chance that the better programs will have shorter stays, so would cost your local schools less in the long run.  (Actually, an average stay at one of the most expensive good girls facilities would cost less than an average stay at H.H.)  In the end, you may want to chip in some small percentage if that is what it would take to get the right thing, but making the case to your school ought not be too tough.  Worst case, a lawyer could help (though education lawyers working for parents are scarce in some areas).
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 03:37:05 PM »
Quote from: "walkedthere"
you should start with thte information/assessment and recommendations from the psychologist and/or licensed therapist who has spent time with her at the present wilderness program.

Sure, except for the part where the "licensed therapist" or the program is getting a fat kickback from the place they convince you to send her next. And they WILL try to convince you of that, and if my guess is correct they already are. "Where can I send her next" and asking how you can manipulate (<-- See that word? Bet you've heard it before!) your school district into rejecting its own alternatives in favor of where the program told you about.

Think there was a chance of them saying "No, it's okay, your daughter should come home now"? Protip: They never, ever do. Too much money involved.

Quote
Also compile relevant facts, like space availability, program design/structure (including presence or absence of weekend therapeutic activities) for them as well as for other places you might prefer.  Finally, compile corresponding data for the type of student each place takes (including severity of problem) and average time to complete their program -- and I do mean complete, which is not the same as average stay.

Except for the fact that the programs themselves are making this stuff up, often out of whole cloth. Sure, we have a ____, the kids use it every day, come and take a look! Then find out that it was never used or never existed at all. And the "time to complete" is until the money runs out, practically every time, or they treat her as "unmanageable" and toss her out the door into some psych ward, without even telling you for a while. Or she runs away and is never found, we've had a few of those. After you've spent all that money and put all your faith in them to do the right thing, the program just changed its name and location again. Oh and your daughter ends up severly traumatized and quite literally never forgives you for it. Surprise! Just don't say you weren't warned...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline SUCK IT

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 12:18:18 AM »
Quote from: "sad"
Reading through many posts and threads here I am horrified at the abuse that occurs at certain facilities! My heart goes out to all those who have had to endure such cruelty. I do hope you have successfully prosecuted your abusers.
Are there any links to lawsuits filed/settled/won?

Is there a list of 'good' facilities?

Nobody here has won any lawsuits. Think about it for a second. Child abuse is illegal already, and all it takes is a tip to Child Protective Services and they will be out investigating in force. Why haven't anybody here reported their abuse? This is because they were not really 'abused', using the legal definition of the word and also the average poster here is talking about treatment programs that are long out of business because they were in 25 years ago. To be blunt the stories you read here are no longer relevant to the contemporary adolescent treatment industry. These are people who want to indict an entire industry based on their sole experience decades ago in programs that have long ceased to exist. But they use plenty of propaganda to suggest otherwise, don't let the scare tactics make you afraid to get the help you need for your family because you might regret it. What if you could have helped your kid but chose not to because of the lies posted here? That wouldn't be good now would it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
one day at a time

Offline Oz girl

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Re: Are there good ones?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 01:00:30 AM »
I think it depends on your definition. I am willing to believe that some places are not abusive in the physical or sexual sense. But there is a wider justice issue here. The first question is whether detaining anyone for an extended period of time when they have not committed a crime that they have been legitmately tired for is OK. I would say that it certainly is not. So from that perspective then this industry is generally not moral in any place that claims to live by the general principals of modern democracy.
In the event that children end up in this industry because they have genuinely broken a law and been legally tried, it becomes a question of whether it is humane, effective and likely to prevent re offence.  boot camps have not met the test of being humane. In the infamous Marin Lee Anderson case as well as Gina Score, and so many others the testimony of their peers has consistently shown that they were not victims of the abuse of isolated "bad eggs" but the casualties of a system designed to be cruel and excessive in its punishment.
For those offenders who end up in privately owned and run places there is the question of whether private operators should be allowed to profit from punishment. I dont see how this is OK. When anyone is jailed the penalty is supposed to be loss of liberty. It is meant to be a last resort measure to keep society safe. These young people loose far more than liberty and somebody makes a profit to the damage that is done to them as human beings. It is also worth examining what these so called criminals are jailed for. In the case of many their crimes are petty at best. I dont think it is reasonable to say as in the case of Gina Score that her theft of beanie babies made her enough of a danger to society that the streets needed to be kept safe from her. I certainy find it unfathomable that the cost of a trinket is worth a human life. There is also no proof that imprisonment or "wilderness jail" makes any kid less likely to offend. If anything some studies have shown the opposite. So i Dont think the industry can justify itself as good here either. Not for the offender and not for society.
There is also a wider cultural context. Western society has somehow fallen in love with the theatre of cruelty that is reality TV, uglyness and punishment and indignity is celebrated and complex issues are presented as simple. On a recent episode of Dr Phil 2 parents were booed and jeered when they opted not to send their badly behved daughters to turn about ranch. Apparently working out a way to live together as a family made these people weak. it was preferable to send 2 underage girls to a place where children are tied together like horses. Even shows like survivor ultimately celebrate turning on your friends, stabbing each other in the back and generally behaving like an asshole to get ahead. the weak and kind are "losers".
The best anyone can hope for in sending their kid away to be "treated" is that their liberty and right to freedom of thought and movement is the only thing that is taken away. The industry knows this but also knows that as long as western culture feels that tough is right and parental fear and love is exploitable it can make a profit
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen