Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Facility Question and Answers
Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
SUCK IT:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---**DOUBLE FACEPALM**
Seriously....you're kidding, right? What "facts" did he state? That he's "read about" horrors? That he's "seen" kids? Jesus-mother-fucking-christ!!! Do you people fucking HEAR yourselves??
--- End quote ---
For every 1 person who goes through treatment and complains it was 'abusive' there are at least 50 people whose lives were saved by it. Here on fornits nobody will hear from the 50 people who owe their life to treatment. They only hear from the 1 person, who spends a lot of energy propagandizing the negativity of all treatment from adolescent programs to alcoholics anonymous. This 1 person naturally omits any incriminating choices of their own or any inconvenient truth which provides a reason why they needed treatment, or any ability to empathize with their parents and understand why it was necessary. To this 1 person the 'treatment industry' is tainted by their experience and forever condemned as evil. This extremist view requires vigilant defense because it runs contrary to common sense thought provided by posters such as Whooter.
--- Quote ---Yep, which kinda negates your strawman argument. [extreme eye rolling] Nobody is saying that *some* people don't benefit from *treatment*.
--- End quote ---
Many posters on this forum make the argument than nobody benefits from treatment, and that anyone claiming so is brainwashed. It's refreshing to see you are not a part of this super extremist viewpoint, at least you acknowledge that 'some people benefit from treatment'. The truth is most benefit from treatment while a small, tiny percentage find it 'abusive'.
--- Quote ---The discussion is about who actually *needs* *help* and what *constitutes* said *help* [/extreme eye rolling].[/b]
--- End quote ---
What better people are in a position to judge this than the parents of a troubled teen? Would you prefer a communist government official be provided to judge whether a parent is right in seeking treatment? But what if the teen is sly, and cons this individual, what then? Just because your friend in treatment told you they were there "for nothing", doesn't mean it's true. You claim being in treatment gives you so much credibility, but you still only have one side of the story. You don't know what people are like at home, or what their parents went through. Parents are in a perfect position to know what type of help would work. Who else would?
Paul St. John:
SFor every 1 person who goes through treatment and complains it was 'abusive' there are at least 50 people whose lives were saved by it.
First of all, I don t know where the fuck you get your statistics. I have yet to find a single person who thinks they benefited from the place I went, when I was there, and it was only 17 years ago. I am even referring to people who bought into it at the time.
Now, as far the people, whose lives were saved, How do you know that any of these people would be dead today if not for the program? You don't!
Here on fornits nobody will hear from the 50 people who owe their life to treatment. They only hear from the 1 person, who spends a lot of energy propagandizing the negativity of all treatment from adolescent programs to alcoholics anonymous.
You paint a pretty picture, but that is still all it is.
This 1 person naturally omits any incriminating choices of their own or any inconvenient truth which provides a reason why they needed treatment,
Most did drugs. And I bet that for every one person who ended up in a center for doing drugs, I can find 50 who did drugs, didn t end up in a center, and just grew out of it on their own.
or any ability to empathize with their parents and understand why it was necessary.
Necessary? It was necessary. To say that it was necessary, is to that it worked. If it worked, why do so many people seem so pissed off about it? Are you saying that these centers did cure people but they just don t want to admit that they are cured.
To this 1 person the 'treatment industry' is tainted by their experience and forever condemned as evil.
let's put you in a ring, and see how you feel.
This extremist view requires vigilant defense because it runs contrary to common sense thought provided by posters such as Whooter.
It require vigilant defense, because there are so many people who are so good at manipulating the truth.
Paul
Paul St. John:
Can you accept that there are a lot of dishonest people who make easy livings through deceit, in the name of helping children?
Can you accept that many of these programs are still in existence today?
Can you accept, that people who actually went to programs might have some insight into this?
Paul
SUCK IT:
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---Can you accept that there are a lot of dishonest people who make easy livings through deceit, in the name of helping children?
Can you accept that many of these programs are still in existence today?
Can you accept, that people who actually went to programs might have some insight into this?
Paul
--- End quote ---
I can accept this. I can see from the point of view of the small percentage of people who end up worse off after treatment why this view would compel them to convince others of this view. Something bad happened to me, therefore I want to warn you about it. This is one of the great uses of the internet and is widely utilized for this reason. I can accept that there is a small, from my point of view, tiny risk that a troubled teen will end up worse off or 'abused'. The quotes around the term abuse is because the definition on this forum is fluid to say the least.
I think if an industry wide poll were taken the numbers would break down as I indicated in another post. 80% saved, 18% ambivalent, 1.9% worse off, 0.1% 'abused'. A lot of teens have been through some sort of troubled teen treatment program, so even though the chances are small of negative outcome, eventually over time these numbers add up. On fornits a poll was done which showed about a dozen, with an average of about 20 years from the time they were in treatment.
If a teen is left to their own devices at home without intervention due to this fear of negative result, what are the chances they might overdose on drugs? Get arrested for a crime? Drop out of school, or worse? These are all the calculations that go on in a parent's mind as they are deciding and seeking out treatment for their troubled teen. Accurate information helps these parents in this decision, and this is where fornits goes too far and suggests that treatment is much more likely to result in a negative outcome than not, which is just not true. I really wonder how many troubled teens sent to all the various types of treatment programs end up as "the walking wounded who can't function due to their broken psyches". If this is true, where are the mental hospitals filled with drooling "survivors" mumbling about how if only my parents didn't send me to treatment I would have been fine.
Pile of Dead Kids:
To improve the quality of trolling, I'd like to remind you that when making up statistics, you should mention all categories available. You missed one.
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