Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Facility Question and Answers
Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "SUCK IT" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" --- I have read extensively and read first hand of the horrors some of these kids went thru. I have also seen the many kids who benefitted form the programs.
I have the advantage of being able to see both sides of the industry. The good and the bad
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No matter what somebody's position might be on programs, nobody can honestly claim what Whooter is saying here is a lie . These are factual statements being made, yet they drive the average fornits poster into a frenzy. I wonder why this is.
--- End quote ---
**DOUBLE FACEPALM**
Seriously....you're kidding, right? What "facts" did he state? That he's "read about" horrors? That he's "seen" kids? Jesus-mother-fucking-christ!!! Do you people fucking HEAR yourselves??
--- Quote ---Here is someone acknowledging that while some bad things happen unfortunately in treatment programs there are also many, many kids who are benefiting from treatment. This is not a controversial position, it is very much a common sense approach and based on facts.
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Yep, which kinda negates your strawman argument. [extreme eye rolling] Nobody is saying that *some* people don't benefit from *treatment*. The discussion is about who actually *needs* *help* and what *constitutes* said *help* [/extreme eye rolling].
Please try to keep up.
Are you people just functionally retarded or what? I'm seriously starting to wonder.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---Seriously....you're kidding, right? What "facts" did he state? That he's "read about" horrors? That he's "seen" kids? Jesus-mother-fucking-christ!!! Do you people fucking HEAR yourselves??
--- End quote ---
I believe what he may be referring to are the statements that kids do very well in programs and some kids do not do well. Most of the focus and energy (here on fornits) is placed on kids who didn’t do well ignoring the ones who benefit greatly from programs.
I think it is a good idea to keep them all in perspective. At least that is what I offer here.
--- Quote --- Yep, which kinda negates your strawman argument. [extreme eye rolling] Nobody is saying that *some* people don't benefit from *treatment*. The discussion is about who actually *needs* *help* and what *constitutes* said *help* [/extreme eye rolling].
--- End quote ---
So you do agree that kids benefit from treatment. This is the first time I have heard you say this, Anne, which is great.
I think your second statement we can agree on partially, if we can dissect it. I do believe that the programs could do a bit more in differentiating those who would benefit from the program from those that may not. A third party screening I think would help go a long way in keeping kids out of programs who do not belong there.
I believe the definition of help and success needs to be defined individually (for each child). If you review some of the more current studies they do a good job tackling some of the broader topics and define success rates rather well, I think. These have been a big help to prospective parents in determining the type of program their child may be a good fit for (or not a good fit for).
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Pile of Dead Kids:
Anne, I don't know if you're providing a counter to that one or what, but that's a genuine 100% troll, in the original reply-grabbing sense. He doesn't believe what he's saying, he's just trolling for the fun of it. I agree that countering Whooter is sometimes necessary to not let his bullshit go unopposed, but (speaking of many derailed threads) it does start getting lengthy, dueling-banjos, and tl;dr. Which is what he's hoping for.
Sad: I don't know if you're still reading this. But this insanity you see before you, the kind of person who literally insists that any of this is necessary and you really could trust your kids with a pedophile's assistant (!)- these people are who you have your daughter with right now. They can give you a fuckton of happy-sounding lies over the phone. They can probably make your daughter do the same thing.
But what they can't do is provide real treatment, or therapy, or care, because they're not qualified or intelligent enough and they don't care.
For God's fucking sake. Before you ask another question gathering 'all your options' for where to send her next, go get your daughter OUT of this business before they do something irreversible.
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids" ---Anne: Pearls before swine. Having any kind of real argument with Whooter is pointless, and you know damn well he doesn't give half a shit what you say because what happened to you in Straight was THIRTY YEARS AGO and HE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE ( :rofl: ). Bullshit, but familiar bullshit to him and that's basically an auto-answer.
I just maneuver him into saying something completely, irredeemably stupid and then stop. I just had no idea how irredeemably stupid he could be.
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--- Quote ---And you're excellent at it, but we all have our own ways.
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and what is yours ways Anne, please do indulge us.
--- Quote ---I was sooo angry for sooo long and I vented it regularly here.
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Anne read please....you still are.
--- Quote ---It wasn't until I shook off the last little bit of the wash (AA) that I finally started to heal and be happy.
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AA was not ever a source of therapy for you that choice was made while you were still unconscious, your pathology made sure you would never select AA as a source of help. Straight, killed any idea of AA as being a benefit for you Anne.
--- Quote ---You're assuming, regarding me, that I'm posting in an attempt to convince him of something. I'm not.
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Oh yes you are, I hate to admit that for you because you don't see it yet. So therefore you will defend it. " Your heartfelt post you wrote to whooter said as much what your trying to convince him of. I don't see anything wrong with that Anne. Tell him more, really I'm serious. I love this type of posting when people speak there truth
--- Quote ---I try to be an honest person though and I must admit that he is intelligent enough to rope in the "marks".
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Whooter is extremely intelligent. I have been saying this for a while. Sometimes it is OK just to listen it doesn't equate to submission.
--- Quote ---My replies to him aren't really to him, per se. They are a counter. And it has an added benefit for me personally too. The more he talks, the more I learn about he mindset of what allows this atrocity to live on. Kinda like Scientology. It's taken a while for shit to trickle out, but it's coming.
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I don't think you really do this. I think you either one just thought this up or two someone told you this in a conversation at some point. Your not that multi-talented Anne.
--- Quote ---Now Danny, on the other hand......he's just irresistibly fun to play with. Is that wrong?
--- End quote ---
No I don't think so. I have somewhat shown myself to be a clown. I will say though it is a double edge sword. Don't be to pretentious.
--- Quote ---They are the personification of the cause and effect of this whole deal.
--- End quote ---
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Explain please.....
Results definition: personification
1. attribution of personal qualities especially representation of a thing or abstraction as a person or by the human form
2. divinity or imaginary being representing a thing or abstraction
3. embodiment incarnation
Danny
Whooter:
Pile, I think Sad has probably figured out via your foul language and use of the term pedophile that you are just trying to scare her because you lack any factual evidence which shows Open Sky Wilderness to be ineffective or dangerous. We are all adults and realize that pedophiles exist. Your logic is a little off and I think you are off the mark a bit to try to convince us that working with pedophiles will turn you into one. I dont see the logic in that the same as I dont see how working with Gay people would turn a person gay. Most of these traits are hardwired into people and cannot be changed or rub off on others.
Secondly I dont see how hiring a pedophile with kids around would be good for business, if indeed these places are profit driven. See what I am saying?
I think we can all agree that the best thing to do (to gain factual information) is contact the program directly and ask to speak with some parents and kids who have gone through the individual program(s) and find out first hand if the program works. Most parents do this and, hey, you get to ask some real direct and hard questions.
The program may or may not be a good fit for her daughter. It’s a good way to find out.
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