Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Facility Question and Answers
Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado
DannyB II:
"Pile of Dead Kids"]Anne: Pearls before swine. Having any kind of real argument with Whooter is pointless, and you know damn well he doesn't give half a shit what you say because what happened to you in Straight was THIRTY YEARS AGO and HE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE ( :rofl: ). Bullshit, but familiar bullshit to him and that's basically an auto-answer.
I just maneuver him into saying something completely, irredeemably stupid and then stop. I just had no idea how irredeemably stupid he could be.
--- Quote from: "Danny" ---This happened while I was still a resident. Matt also picked up kids as a resident
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That's fucked up. Happened in Straight too, right? Two supposedly disparate programs doing similar things. Gee, I wonder if THAT happens today, with the same staff moving around between them and all?
BTW Danny, learn how to use the quote function. Your quotes are all fucked up half the time.
--- Quote ---Dig Dig.......thanks.
--- End quote ---
And I say again that what the kids are willing to endure to run away from the place speaks volumes about it. One kid tried to hang himself to escape the program. Another kid ran away and wandered around Utah getting dehydrated for days, to escape the program. And those fifteen-year-old girls were willing to stay with a 35-year-old trucker- why? Same reason. To escape the program.
--- Quote ---Nope wrong again Pile that is not the truth. Those girls were in the famous program in Chicago that Marvin Schwartz was privy to yanking kids out of to send to Elan. The reason for being there was drugs, skipping school, running away from home. They ran away from the program in Chicago individually. They could have cared less if it was Elan or Elderberry High School they wanted to be on there own. Personally I know that feeling well. So sorry dude go run your analogy somewhere else this time.
--- End quote ---
If being under hellishly dangerous conditions is better than the program, what does that say about the program?
--- Quote ---Sometimes alot sometimes it doesn't matter kids just want to be free of parent abuse and program abuse. Pile I tell ya it seems your parents did a job on you. I've had similar experiences. Just say'in dude.
--- End quote ---
Danny
SUCK IT:
--- Quote from: "Oz girl" ---O This place has a long history of disturbing incidents. One boy tried to hang himself. Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days. The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper.
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--- Quote --- I cant imagine what they do to kids behind closed doors.
--- End quote ---
This is a problem with fornits. None of these incidents is a treatment program harming kids. These are wrong choices made by the kids themselves, period. The treatment program employees try their best to respond to these incidents. These incidents are proof of why their parents sent them away to get help in the first place. Of course incidents occur when you are dealing with troubled teens, but they are incidents of the teens making poor choices.
One boy tried to hang himself.
But I thought treatment wasn't necessary for these kids who don't have problems? The extremist on fornits believes that this wilderness program is so evil that it drives a completely innocent go lucky kid to try to hang themselves. That is not realistic, obviously this kid had problems and needed help thereby justifying the choice of his parents.
Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days.
Bad choice on the part of these troubled teens. Fornits will argue that programs are too restrictive, but then criticize another treatment program for being more open with the kids and allowing the the freedom of being outdoors, and yes, running if they so choose to. These kids chose to run, that decision is on them. Would the posters on fornits suggest that these kids should of instead be sent to a locked treatment center?
The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper.
Just another innocent, nice teenager who was sent to treatment for no reason, right? She sounds like a lovely kid, I can't imagine why her parents would sent her to get help. If fornits posters had shoes being thrown at their heads, how would they react? Letting a troubled teen take advantage of adults and do whatever they want is bad parenting and will only hurt the kid in the long run, some kids just need to have someone finally say no to them.
DannyB II:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: "SUCK IT" ---
--- Quote from: "Oz girl" ---O This place has a long history of disturbing incidents. One boy tried to hang himself. Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days. The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote --- I cant imagine what they do to kids behind closed doors.
--- End quote ---
This is a problem with fornits. None of these incidents is a treatment program harming kids. These are wrong choices made by the kids themselves, period. The treatment program employees try their best to respond to these incidents. These incidents are proof of why their parents sent them away to get help in the first place. Of course incidents occur when you are dealing with troubled teens, but they are incidents of the teens making poor choices.
One boy tried to hang himself.
But I thought treatment wasn't necessary for these kids who don't have problems? The extremist on fornits believes that this wilderness program is so evil that it drives a completely innocent go lucky kid to try to hang themselves. That is not realistic, obviously this kid had problems and needed help thereby justifying the choice of his parents.
Another incident involved some boys running away and wandering alone in the utah desert in the dangerously hot summer months for days.
Bad choice on the part of these troubled teens. Fornits will argue that programs are too restrictive, but then criticize another treatment program for being more open with the kids and allowing the the freedom of being outdoors, and yes, running if they so choose to. These kids chose to run, that decision is on them. Would the posters on fornits suggest that these kids should of instead be sent to a locked treatment center?
The british version of brat camp also depicted one girl getting into a an argument with her admissions counsellors and throwing her shoe at them in temper.
Just another innocent, nice teenager who was sent to treatment for no reason, right? She sounds like a lovely kid, I can't imagine why her parents would sent her to get help.
--- Quote --- If fornits posters had shoes being thrown at their heads, how would they react?
--- End quote ---
Letting a troubled teen take advantage of adults and do whatever they want is bad parenting and will only hurt the kid in the long run, some kids just need to have someone finally say no to them.
--- End quote ---
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Well we already do know they hurl insults and false accusations back at you. They gang up and call you a troll, schill, staffer, Ass. Director ect.........lol
Danny
SUCK IT:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" --- I have read extensively and read first hand of the horrors some of these kids went thru. I have also seen the many kids who benefitted form the programs.
I have the advantage of being able to see both sides of the industry. The good and the bad
...
--- End quote ---
No matter what somebody's position might be on programs, nobody can honestly claim what Whooter is saying here is a lie . These are factual statements being made, yet they drive the average fornits poster into a frenzy. I wonder why this is. Here is someone acknowledging that while some bad things happen unfortunately in treatment programs there are also many, many kids who are benefiting from treatment. This is not a controversial position, it is very much a common sense approach and based on facts. But it drives people here crazy. Why would someone pointing out the simple fact that one experience does not translate into everybody's experience make people so angry? In that answer is the solution to the riddle of what fornits is all about, and it's not about truth.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids" ---Anne: Pearls before swine. Having any kind of real argument with Whooter is pointless, and you know damn well he doesn't give half a shit what you say because what happened to you in Straight was THIRTY YEARS AGO and HE HAS EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE ( :rofl: ). Bullshit, but familiar bullshit to him and that's basically an auto-answer.
I just maneuver him into saying something completely, irredeemably stupid and then stop. I just had no idea how irredeemably stupid he could be.
--- End quote ---
And you're excellent at it, but we all have our own ways. I was sooo angry for sooo long and I vented it regularly here. It wasn't until I shook off the last little bit of the wash (AA) that I finally started to heal and be happy. You're assuming, regarding me, that I'm posting in an attempt to convince him of something. I'm not. I try to be an honest person though and I must admit that he is intelligent enough to rope in the "marks". My replies to him aren't really to him, per se. They are a counter. And it has an added benefit for me personally too. The more he talks, the more I learn about he mindset of what allows this atrocity to live on. Kinda like Scientology. It's taken a while for shit to trickle out, but it's coming.
Now Danny, on the other hand......he's just irresistibly fun to play with. Is that wrong? :seg: :rofl:
They are the personification of the cause and effect of this whole deal.
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