new JRC Article

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

I asked that questioned Whooter because people are beating the "unethical treatment drum" and don't seem willing to explore alternative treatment methods.

Some questions that were brought up in a few articles I was reading:

Is finding alternatives only Israel’s responsibility? Why isn’t it the responsibility of the entire scientific community?.....

Shock treatment is controversial and rightly so. It’s not pretty. But neither are severely self-hurting autists. When the alternative to a shock treatment that takes away the self-damaging behavior is to pad them in and strap them down, I at least feel that it’s not obvious which to choose.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Che Gookin]

Who gives a shit a what alternatives methods are used? What I want to know is what is going to be done to stop hooking kids up to mobile electric fences and shocking them till they smell like fried bacon.

This shouldn't be about "exploring options".

It should be about stopping something that is wrong, immediately.

Fuck our society in the shitter if we've gotten that far gone that stopping something like JRC requires a committee and a blue ribbon panel followed by a conference wrapped up with 39933 page report.

All of us can go right to hell, and probably will be, if this sort of apple polishing bullshit is endorsed while kids are being zapped silly.

No compromises.. Shut JRC down, and Throw that asshole Matthew Israel into prison with a sign around his neck that says, "Child Abuser".

[Whooter]

Who gives a shit a what alternatives methods are used? What I want to know is what is going to be done to stop hooking kids up to mobile electric fences and shocking them till they smell like fried bacon.

This shouldn't be about "exploring options".

It should be about stopping something that is wrong, immediately.

Fuck our society in the shitter if we've gotten that far gone that stopping something like JRC requires a committee and a blue ribbon panel followed by a conference wrapped up with 39933 page report.

All of us can go right to hell, and probably will be, if this sort of apple polishing bullshit is endorsed while kids are being zapped silly.

No compromises.. Shut JRC down, and Throw that asshole Matthew Israel into prison with a sign around his neck that says, "Child Abuser".

Look Che, you cant just stop Chemotherapy because you cant stand the sight of kids vomiting and their hair falling out.  You should read up on the pros and cons of this place.  Take a look at the quality of life these kids have.  Its near zero....Its no life being restrained 24/7 and drugged out to the point where you are drooling all day.  If this gives kids a chance at a better or near normal life then why deny them that?  Most of them choose the GED and before any child can be subjected they need to go before a judge along with advocacy groups and independent psych sign off.

Read up on it... thats what I am doing.



...

[RTP2003]

Look Che, you cant just stop Chemotherapy because you cant stand the sight of kids vomiting and their hair falling out.  



...

Equating programs for "troubled teens" to chemotherapy for cancer-stricken kids is kinda like equating getting knifed in an alley with undergoing a surgical procedure.  As usual, your bullshit does not stand up to half a second of rational thought.  Now go back to playing with your feces.......

[Whooter]

Look Che, you cant just stop Chemotherapy because you cant stand the sight of kids vomiting and their hair falling out.  



...

Equating programs for "troubled teens" to chemotherapy for cancer-stricken kids is kinda like equating getting knifed in an alley with undergoing a surgical procedure.  As usual, your bullshit does not stand up to half a second of rational thought.  Now go back to playing with your feces.......

This thread is not about programs for troubled teens.  As usual you jump in without reading up on what you are commenting on.  Catch up and then give your opinion.  Its actually and interesting topic.



...

[RTP2003]

Whatever, substitute "autistic kids" for troubled teens and my analogy still holds true.   Go eat a bag of dicks.

[DannyB II]

Did someone say Ireland? I have peeps in Ireland. How can they be of assistance in this case, Anne?
-DP
p.s.who is Turley,and why do I recognize that name so much?

Deprogram,

Anne posted this 4 or 5 posts up on this page, I just copied this article concerning Ireland. I too have and had family in Ireland.
Article copied:

:shamrock: :shamrock:

They are doing it in the old country too....Ireland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9-xXfgQiTU

LadyPortia777 This shock therapy ECT is also recommended for children of 4 and 9 in IRELAND for being too intelligent and strong willed. It is all kept quiet. I have witnessed social worker and psychologist in Ireland BREAK the child to nothing.
All this truth is being exposed.

Danny

[DannyB II]

I am disabled and found this video troubling to watch.  There was scene with Janie C that really bothered me.  She was pulling on her hair, slapping herself in the side of her head and lying on the floor banging her head without staff intervention.  That, in my opinion, was highly unethical.  There was also another case where a child bit half another staff members nose off!  These disabled children need allot of help. What kind of help do you people propose?  

I agree with you,Joel, and that is why many of these kids were transferred to the Center.  It would be a shame to have to have these kids restrained and medicated all day long and they cannot just be left alone like that.  That is a very low quality of life to live in my opinion.
I am not sure what other options would help these children/people.



...

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

This point is a valid point. I just don't like abuse.

Danny

[DannyB II]

I asked that questioned Whooter because people are beating the "unethical treatment drum" and don't seem willing to explore alternative treatment methods.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

I was leading the conversation in that direction because I don't think many posters here really get what kind of kids and there disabilities that are being discussed here. I would suggest talking with some of the posters who have direct connection with the mental health developement scene. Felice would be good person to contact, I'm sure there are others.
I will say this though I don't care what quality of life were talking here, there is no excuse for abuse of any kind, even if you think it isn't because they are testing. That is fucking sick, test on yourself.

Danny

[Ursus]

Look Che, you cant just stop Chemotherapy because you cant stand the sight of kids vomiting and their hair falling out.

Equating programs for "troubled teens" to chemotherapy for cancer-stricken kids is kinda like equating getting knifed in an alley with undergoing a surgical procedure.  As usual, your bullshit does not stand up to half a second of rational thought.  Now go back to playing with your feces.......

This thread is not about programs for troubled teens.  As usual you jump in without reading up on what you are commenting on.  Catch up and then give your opinion.  Its actually and interesting topic.

Oh, but it most certainly is! Now, if you really had been reading up on this place instead of playing around with your baseless chemotherapy analogies, Whooter, you would know that a lot of parents of self-harming autistics just don't send them to JRC anymore! Big surprise! Apparently, there are other alternatives!

Instead, troubled teens are now being used to fill those emptied slots. From Nancy Weiss's comments to a recent Boston Globe Op-Ed:

JRCs census has fallen dramatically in recent years. When states stopped being willing to send kids with autism to JRC (or when some states stopped sending kids at all) JRC clearly shifted its focus. Many of the people there now (and for the past number of years) are not kids with severe autism or other developmental disabilities but the other group that can push the limits of families, professionals and systems -- tough, oppositional street kids that had gotten in trouble multiple times and that schools were anxious to see go elsewhere.[/list]

If the Judge Rotenberg Center were just concerned with those extreme self-harming autistic cases, why the heck is it marketing itself at events like the American Probation and Parole Association and the Virginia Juvenile Justice Association conferences?

[Whooter]

Oh, but it most certainly is! Now, if you really had been reading up on this place instead of playing around with your baseless chemotherapy analogies, Whooter, you would know that a lot of parents of self-harming autistics just don't send them to JRC anymore! Big surprise! Apparently, there are other alternatives!

There.. thank you.  Since you reacted and called the analogy baseless instead of arguing against it shows me that it was effective and understood.  We both know that they are both therapies which cause pain and from a distance appear to be very abusive.  If you performed a therapy on a child 100 years ago that caused the child to vomit and the kids hair fell out you would be hung from a tree.

From my reading autistic children are still being sent to the center.  If this isn't the case anymore I would like to see the link.  If the center has open beds and can help some less severe children then I don’t see why they shouldn’t allow them to be accepted and helped at the center.  I could see your concern but you filling in a lot of information that is not there.

But besides that the issue is “shock treatment”.  Not all the people being treated at the center receive shock treatment and before anyone can they need to have a hearing before a judge, meet with advocacy groups and see a psychologist to determine if this type of treatment would be beneficial or warranted. I dont see how, with the present screening criteria, an at-risk youth could be exposed to shock treatment.

But that is why we are all here to get answers and find out what they are doing and to whom and how effective it is.



...



...

[DannyB II]

Look Che, you cant just stop Chemotherapy because you cant stand the sight of kids vomiting and their hair falling out.

Equating programs for "troubled teens" to chemotherapy for cancer-stricken kids is kinda like equating getting knifed in an alley with undergoing a surgical procedure.  As usual, your bullshit does not stand up to half a second of rational thought.  Now go back to playing with your feces.......

This thread is not about programs for troubled teens.  As usual you jump in without reading up on what you are commenting on.  Catch up and then give your opinion.  Its actually and interesting topic.

Oh, but it most certainly is! Now, if you really had been reading up on this place instead of playing around with your baseless chemotherapy analogies, Whooter, you would know that a lot of parents of self-harming autistics just don't send them to JRC anymore! Big surprise! Apparently, there are other alternatives!

Instead, troubled teens are now being used to fill those emptied slots. From Nancy Weiss's comments to a recent Boston Globe Op-Ed:

JRCs census has fallen dramatically in recent years. When states stopped being willing to send kids with autism to JRC (or when some states stopped sending kids at all) JRC clearly shifted its focus. Many of the people there now (and for the past number of years) are not kids with severe autism or other developmental disabilities but the other group that can push the limits of families, professionals and systems -- tough, oppositional street kids that had gotten in trouble multiple times and that schools were anxious to see go elsewhere.[/list]

If the Judge Rotenberg Center were just concerned with those extreme self-harming autistic cases, why the heck is it marketing itself at events like the American Probation and Parole Association and the Virginia Juvenile Justice Association conferences?

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Ursus,
You are not really being totally clear here. These kids they are talking about would not be wanted in your average troubled teen centers at all. These are the worst of the worst that can not be controlled, if you read some of the articles they were shocking these kids also or at least trying.
Also the thread we were all posting about were kids that had severe disabilities, at least that was my understanding, so Whooter was on thread my friend.
You are right though JRC is going to work with some very disturbed and troubled teens. Nobody else wants them except Juvie or Prison. This doesn't mean that they should be abused and neglected either.

Danny

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Nobody else wants them except Juvie or Prison.

Two infinitely more humane alternatives.