Author Topic: why and how this forum fails  (Read 8955 times)

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Offline M_Hilton

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2010, 02:36:54 AM »
no idea i just call it like i see it
mind you i could see how SUWS looks bad to some and it has been over 10 years since i was there things COULD have changed SUWS is only as good as the field staff
and like i said the thing that catches most kids off guard at SUWS is the wilderness part being that that kinda stuff was some thing i liked doing at the time i loled at it
yes the food sucked but for backpacking like that i really wouldnt want to take much else and lets just say i cant eat oatmeal to this day >.<
but over all it did some good things mostly becouse i think i got good staff
thats not to say all the staff is that good maybe i lucked out
also wile there field staff is/was good i have questions about the motives of the office staff and pawning me off to another program after that which at the time my family got a 2nd opinion on and i went back to the highschool i had been in

here is another fun one for you all the Highschool was at for the most time was basicly a live at home program BUT again do to staff that cared was good
go look it up Hannah More School http://www.hannahmore.org/
you want to run a program for kids THIS is what you should model it on do that + maybe house kids but thats my 2 cents

that reminds me Psy give them a call ask for a tour see what program that cares about its students can do
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Joel

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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2010, 03:07:09 AM »
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 10:35:30 AM by Joel »

Offline M_Hilton

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2010, 04:28:34 AM »
1. What was the location of the SUWS program?
Idaho
2. When were you enrolled in the SUWS program?
Summer of 99'
3. When did you graduate from the SUWS program?
summer of 99'
4. When did you wake up?
guess: ~7to8 local time
5. When did you go to sleep?
9 to 10 local time it was dark
6. Did you do daily chores? If so, what were they?
none really just write some do program work which was mostly wilderness firstresponder stuff its been a wile for got most of what it was
7. What time did you have breakfast, lunch and dinner?
8am some time around noon and when ever we made camp 6 7 pm ish
8. What did breakfast, lunch and dinner consist of?
oatmeal flatbread and peanutbutter , lentels and rice + bread again this is stuff you would take back packing weighs nothing and high calories and protein
9. When did you start hiking?
~9 am ish
10. How long were the hikes?
varied on were we could find a camp site ie water shade etc
11. How long were the breaks?
forget but wasnt an issue at the time iirc we took more on a few days it was very hot one day it 110 we didnt even hike that day
12. How many breaks did your group generally have each hike?
3 give or take
13. How many children per group?
 6 - 8
14. How many staff per group?
2
15. Did staff restrain children?
nope
16. What restraint techniques were used?
n/a
17. Were children ever hurt during restraints? If so, were any taken to the hospital?
n/a
18. Were children given daily writing assignments? If so, what did they consist of?
yes for got what its been 10 years
19. Did you discuss the writing assignments with the group or one on one with staff?
yes
20. What did the group therapy process consist of? How long were they? Were they confrontational?
for got most of it but no
21. How often were children allowed to contact parents?
none once on trail but be for and after
22. How often did a therapist visit the group in the field?
every other day
23. How did you start fires?
flint and steel, bowdrill  i had done this be for it was lol for me
24. What did you use for shelter?
Idaho summer uses a make shift bevi sack ie bedroll + a tarp works very well IF you build it right agian been there done that loled at teh cities kids
25. How heavy were your packs?
guess ~30 to 40 lb not bad
26. What did you use to cook meals with?
cans again some thing i had done be for so it wasnt like OMG WERE COOKING IN CANS lots of backpackers do that hell its in the BSA handbook
27. What were you allowed to have for clothing?
kackies t-shits
28. Were you taught how to read maps?
yup again done it be for
29. Were you taught how to use a compass?
yes and again i was REALLY good at it be for even going


i dont think SUWS knew what hit them when i went i knew most of the skills and the wilderness didnt effect me mostly i loled at the other kids till i could help them
give me a good map and a compass and im faster then a GPS
also my group did 150 miles id be hard pressed to repeat that now >.< im sooo out of shape
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 04:34:24 AM by M_Hilton »

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2010, 04:29:45 AM »
I think the key issue here is the fact that M_Hilton seems to recognize that his experience is unique to him. At least that is the way I'm reading his posts. I hesitate to say this as it comes across as putting words in his mouth, but it seems to me he recognizes not only that his experience is unique to him, but that other people's experience could have and was a bad one.

I got over people saying, "This program treated me right!" a long time ago. M_Hilton, good show if you think SUWS went well for you. However, I hope you recognize that others have had a rough time with SUWS and that others have been abused while in SUWS's care.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline M_Hilton

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2010, 04:40:51 AM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
I think the key issue here is the fact that M_Hilton seems to recognize that his experience is unique to him. At least that is the way I'm reading his posts. I hesitate to say this as it comes across as putting words in his mouth, but it seems to me he recognizes not only that his experience is unique to him, but that other people's experience could have and was a bad one.

I got over people saying, "This program treated me right!" a long time ago. M_Hilton, good show if you think SUWS went well for you. However, I hope you recognize that others have had a rough time with SUWS and that others have been abused while in SUWS's care.


this 100% this
thats what im trying to say wile SOME can be ok the issue is consistency take my SUWS group which iirc every one made it and wile it had its ups and downs there were times it SUCKED
but i think it was SUWS that keep me going at benchmark if i could do that FUCK benchmark etc as soon as i saw what the game was there(benchmark) there was no way they were going to break me and thats why i think they put me in a motel so fast cant have the strong willed ones mucking about might give the others ideas

SUWS may have gone downhill since then its been 10 years and i always had my guesses about the upper staff when they tried said i should go some were else after
thats another story
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2010, 05:18:07 AM »
No worries, I gathered that is what you were trying to get across.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RavingMad

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2010, 08:47:31 AM »
PRIME EXAMPLE ABOVE ^^^^^^^ THIS IS WHY FORUMS FAIL. JUST ASK CHE. OR ACTUALLY DONT YOU WILL GET SOM FUCKING TWISTED INFORMATION.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
RETARDS GET A LIFE...DO NOT POST ON FORNITS, IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR BRAIN AND ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING OF VALUE.

Offline maruska

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2010, 10:15:34 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "M_Hilton"
here this should make every one shit bricks

SUWS did good things for me OMG HE SAID A PROGRAM HELPED HIM
Benchmark was a total sham and needs to be shut down and does nothing but warehouse young adults to extort money from there families

let the flaming begin ::evil::

Psy your response wasnt very nice.

M_Hilton, Its sad reading your post and a sobering  reminder that you will not get a welcoming response or discussion your post should encourage.  Fronits has created such a deep seeded culture that people are afraid and defensive (like yourself) to say anything positive about their stay in a program.

You never hear anyone talk about a good friend they met or a staff/counselor who helped them for fear of being labeled as brainwashed or a programmie.  Even the jews who were in concentration camps felt comfortable enough to speak openly and honestly and say they met some good people and fellow Germans who were willing to help and changed their lives for the better.Instead of getting acknowledgement for your feelings you get a pat on the back and they say:  “I honestly believe you must feel that way”  Like it is all in your mind and because we believe that you are not a  liar you must be having an off day to say something like that..  However, if you are up for it I can show you kids who were hurt by SUWS so you should reconsider what you are saying.  If you don’t reconsider I can show you some posts where kids we abused and killed.  Then you will reconsider what you are saying I am sure, because you are a sensible person.

M_Hilton, Didn’t someone yell at you, deny you food or force you to walk when you didn’t want to?  If the answer was yes to any of these then you were abused.  Were you not forced to build your own fire in order to eat?   Did your parents ask you first before you were sent to SUWS?  Or were you sent there against your will?  Don’t you feel you were good enough to deserve basic human rights?  Why do you cave in and say that SUWS helped you?
You just don’t realize it yet but you have been brain washed.

It would be nice to be able to talk openly about programs without being afraid that if you said something nice like : “I met a good friend”  or “The staff treated me okay” you would be labeled.  Its too bad that fornits has created a culture which puts so much pressure on posters to just talk about the negative side of programs.

Can that be changed?



...


Do you really mean it?
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2010, 10:34:38 AM »
Yes. Yes he does.

I usually scroll past his posts, but that's really how he thinks.
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...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Ursus

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2010, 10:53:14 AM »
Quote from: "maruska"
Quote from: "Whooter"
You never hear anyone talk about a good friend they met or a staff/counselor who helped them for fear of being labeled as brainwashed or a programmie.  Even the jews who were in concentration camps felt comfortable enough to speak openly and honestly and say they met some good people and fellow Germans who were willing to help and changed their lives for the better.Instead of getting acknowledgement for your feelings you get a pat on the back and they say:  “I honestly believe you must feel that way”  Like it is all in your mind and because we believe that you are not a  liar you must be having an off day to say something like that..  However, if you are up for it I can show you kids who were hurt by SUWS so you should reconsider what you are saying.  If you don’t reconsider I can show you some posts where kids we abused and killed.  Then you will reconsider what you are saying I am sure, because you are a sensible person.
Do you really mean it?
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Yes. Yes he does.

I usually scroll past his posts, but that's really how he thinks.
And yet he has a veritable fit when you post an historical photograph showing IBM involvement with data management of the holocaust. Oh, the efficiency and precision of those customized punch cards!
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Offline Whooter

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2010, 01:08:54 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
And yet he has a veritable fit when you post an historical photograph showing IBM involvement with data management of the holocaust. Oh, the efficiency and precision of those customized punch cards!

In the context of the discussion.  We were discussing the Prediction Software which IBM developed and the State of Florida had purchased.  Your posting of the 1937 photo of IBM was used in an attempt to discredit IBM and their present software.  Reading back I don’t see having a fit over it.  I was just surprised and thought you were smarter than that.  Every large Company which did business internationally was doing business with Germany (not just IBM).  They were a huge emerging Economy and Hitler was a seen as a hero at that time for his turning around of the country.  Many large companies were doing business in Iraq when Saddam was in power and with Iran also.  

There is a photo of Obama shaking hands with Hugo Chavez.  If Hugo Chavez continues to suppress his people in Venezuela and continues on with his human rights violations the handshake could be used by some people (like yourself) to try to make Obama seem like he approves of Chavez’s actions.



It would just be deceiving, thats all.



...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2010, 01:12:19 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
If Hugo Chavez continues to suppress his people


 :rofl:  :rofl:



Sorry, couldn't resist.  :seg:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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Offline psy

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2010, 01:22:22 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
But why wouldn’t posters on fornits come out and say there was a difference?
We have, and also explained why that doesn't matter.  Rewind a few pages.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline DannyB II

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2010, 02:30:09 PM »
Quote from: "M_Hilton"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Not to be on anybodys side here, Psy or Che is everyone were talking about here 18 or older. Can they leave if they want to. Just asking not judging anything, don't have enough information. I have read what psy has said over time, no it is not my experience/story of programs yet I have learned everyone has there own and they are just as painful as the next.
I think outside of some who post here just to be a jerk, some folks have had it so bad in (treatment centers) they have a hard time identifying with psy, not that you should care or have to defend yourself. They see where supposedly you could leave psy and people just are dumbfounded. They say,"we could not escape."  Now I say supposedly because of the peer pressure intimidation and maybe parents did not necessarily want you back at the time you wanted to go back.
People be open minded.

Danny

A prison with out walls is still a prison
sure we could just leave but were are we going to go? have you been to Redlands CA or worse Yucipa or San Bernadino? not a place you want to be walking the streets at night as white kid
that is part of why they took any money you earned or were sent and had have staff with you when use it IF you even get to use it
they didnt want some one saving money for bus or plane ticket home they did every thing they could to keep you from leaving
i was put in a motel becouse i didnt want to deal with nonsence of the 'program' i was here to get help with other things like getting to class on time etc
and then to be treated like a drug addict it was insulting becouse thats all they knew how to treat
where was all this money going? the people on staff other then higher ups were all AA NA trash


 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

M. Hilton spoke:
A prison with out walls is still a prison
sure we could just leave but were are we going to go? have you been to Redlands CA or worse Yucipa or San Bernadino? not a place you want to be walking the streets at night as white kid
that is part of why they took any money you earned or were sent and had have staff with you when use it IF you even get to use it
they didnt want some one saving money for bus or plane ticket home they did every thing they could to keep you from leaving
i was put in a motel becouse i didnt want to deal with nonsence of the 'program' i was here to get help with other things like getting to class on time etc
and then to be treated like a drug addict it was insulting becouse thats all they knew how to treat.

Danny spoke:
I am not going to argue any of this. You have my heartfelt empathy for your experience.

M. Hilton spoke:
"where was all this money going? the people on staff other then higher ups were all AA NA trash

Danny spoke:
Speaks volumes on the vomiting, hatred, anger, bias, and more negative comments spoken about AA and NA.
Like I said a while ago prejudices are hurtful not only to yourself but to others.
I will say this, folks need to know where the hostility comes from concerning AA and NA.
Thanks for the info M. Hilton.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: why and how this forum fails
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2010, 02:38:26 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
But why wouldn’t posters on fornits come out and say there was a difference?
We have, and also explained why that doesn't matter.  Rewind a few pages.


I think it matters to the readers.  It is refreshing reading a totally unfiltered story from someone like M_Hilton.  He had a great experience at SUWS.  Others may not have had a good experience, but that is no reason to withhold it.  None of us can ever be sure if a program is going to be good or not.  The same applies to public schools or any institution in which kids go to.  It could be considered safe one day and then a child could be abused or raped the next.

I think accounts like his show that these programs (process) can be very helpful and if they can do a better job regulating their people then each child can have a more consistent experience.



...
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