Author Topic: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight  (Read 3411 times)

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Offline Oscar

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Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:37:54 AM »
Familylight writes about problems with a former Mount Bachelor detainee. Rather interesting.

Aspen Marketing -- Referral from One Aspen Program to Another
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 04:17:27 AM »
They weren't giving him big enough kickbacks.

If you seriously think an ed-con gives half a flying fuck about anything relating to ethics, I have news for you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 08:33:29 AM »
Quote
When Mt.  Bachelor Academy closed, we had an opportunity to have a close look at two situations in which students were referred to Academy at Swift River.  In one case the student became our client. In the other, the parent discussed a client relationship with us, but resolved the need ultimately without our help.   In both cases we had extensive information about the student.  In both cases, Aspen representatives recommended transfer to Academy at Swift River as their only recommendation.

This is a good point.  I think this is a problem in any industry and it stems from what the people know and are exposed to.  The officials at Mt. Bachelor (or any of the Aspen programs) read about each others programs thru Aspen News letters.  They don’t have any knowledge or have very limited knowledge  about programs outside the Aspen Ed group.  So their natural inclination would be to refer to what they know best and that would another Aspen program.
Although when my daughter was attending SUWS there were 2 kids in her group who were rejected by ASR because of violence issues and ASR referred them to Elan up in Maine.

As a basic rule the correct thing to do is to refer to an educational consultant because the people managing programs or a specific program is not trained in ed consulting as their specialty.

Quote
In the case of the client who became our client, the young man had learning issues which Academy at Swift River was not equipped to serve.   We noticed that first, when reviewing records.  Our opinion was validated when Academy at Swift River notified the boy’s parents that he was not eligible to enroll there, due to the same learning issues we observed.

We can’t describe the other student in any detail because if we did, the circumstances would identify him.  But it was another case where Aspen representatives identified Academy at Swift River as the only reasonable choice until the management at Academy at Swift River took a close look and said “no.”

This supports many of my previous arguments that programs don’t just take any warm body that comes along in order to fill an empty bed.  In order for programs like ASR to maintain a high degree of success with these children they need to meet certain requirements prior to being accepted and eligibility for acceptance is very high in many cases.



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Offline Oscar

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 09:25:02 AM »
It seems that some in the Aspen management team have a different point:

Quote
We do not know whether or not there is a connection, but Dr. Bartolomeo resigned at Academy at Swift River a few months after this.  We doubt that he was forced out. It would not surprise us if he was just tired of dealing with the corporate culture. Remember, he has the highest standards of competence and integrity.

Do you know if the standard you observed during your daughters exile has been lowered?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 10:11:52 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
It seems that some in the Aspen management team have a different point:

Quote
We do not know whether or not there is a connection, but Dr. Bartolomeo resigned at Academy at Swift River a few months after this.  We doubt that he was forced out. It would not surprise us if he was just tired of dealing with the corporate culture. Remember, he has the highest standards of competence and integrity.

Do you know if the standard you observed during your daughters exile has been lowered?

I believe it has continued to increase each year.  Many of these schools take feedback from the parents (including myself), monitor the kids (post graduation) and make changes based on the information they receive.  Many of these places are exceeding an 80% success rate and want to continue to grow that number.  One way to do this is to continue to change and evolve.  Dr. Bartolomeo stepped in and made many improvements and raised the standards at ASR and has now moved on to allow someone else to continue to add new ideas.

It may have been the corporate culture that he found he was not compatible with, but we just dont know. People like Dr. Bartolomeo are driven solely by getting results and focusing on the kids immediate needs because he is in contact with them everyday and sees this.  The corporation is further away,has to consider keeping the profits up and therefore may not be as sensitive to these needs and I can see this as creating conflict that would wear one down over time.  This is common in most industries.



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Offline Ursus

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Academy at Swift River and Mount Bachelor Academy were most
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 11:53:40 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
The officials at Mt. Bachelor (or any of the Aspen programs) read about each others programs thru Aspen News letters.  They don’t have any knowledge or have very limited knowledge  about programs outside the Aspen Ed group.  So their natural inclination would be to refer to what they know best and that would another Aspen program.
:roflmao:  Spin spin spin...

Whooter, you would know, perhaps better than most, given your friendship with Rudy Bentz, that Mount Bachelor Academy and Academy at Swift River enjoyed a closer relationship than many if not all of the other Aspen TBS programs. After all, ASR was in part founded by folks from Mount Bachelor!
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Academy at Swift River and Mount Bachelor Academy were most
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2010, 01:51:26 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Whooter"
The officials at Mt. Bachelor (or any of the Aspen programs) read about each others programs thru Aspen News letters.  They don’t have any knowledge or have very limited knowledge  about programs outside the Aspen Ed group.  So their natural inclination would be to refer to what they know best and that would another Aspen program.
:roflmao:  Spin spin spin...

Whooter, you would know, perhaps better than most, given your friendship with Rudy Bentz, that Mount Bachelor Academy and Academy at Swift River enjoyed a closer relationship than many if not all of the other Aspen TBS programs. After all, ASR was in part founded by folks from Mount Bachelor!

Exactly, That was my point! Lol  The programs under the Aspen group umbrella know more about “each other” thru mutual relations and internal news letters/marketing info etc.  that if a parent asked an Aspen employee to refer them to a program which would help their son with a specific behavior issue th employee  would be more apt to know about Aspen programs than any other and therefore would recommend Aspen.  But if the same question were asked to an Ed Consultant they would have a broader band of knowledge and would be better able to place the child with a better fit.

If you worked for John Deere as a numbers cruncher and someone asked you your opinion on Ride mowers you would probably be pumped full of information about John Deere products just from the internal news letters alone and posters on the wall and would not have a clue about the performance ratings of “Club Cadet”, “Honda” or any of the others so you would recommend a John Deere.

But if you asked an independent who sold many different kinds of ride mowers you would get a better educated answer and probably a better fit.

So I think (my opinion) that is the downside of relying on a program employee to recommend another program placement.  



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Offline Oscar

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 03:46:02 AM »
I saw a research about wilderness programs way back.

Theoretical Basis, Process, and Reported Outcomes of Wilderness Therapy as an Intervention and Treatment for Problem Behavior in Adolescents

On page 23 a table clearly illustrate that wilderness programs which are a part of a larger coorpation refer a lager amount of clients to boarding school than independent run programs.

In this research Anasazi send 90 percent of their clients home, while SUWS and Aspen Archievement Academy only manage to do this with 40 and 50 percent.

Some might assume that the staff in the wilderness programs owned by huge companies may be under some pressure to "feed" the foodchain consisting of boarding schools owned by the same companies. Personally I don't believe that there is any difference in quality of these programs but other factors may like who is paying the salery may be of some importance.
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Offline John Whooter Reuben

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 03:13:47 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
I saw a research about wilderness programs way back.

Theoretical Basis, Process, and Reported Outcomes of Wilderness Therapy as an Intervention and Treatment for Problem Behavior in Adolescents

On page 23 a table clearly illustrate that wilderness programs which are a part of a larger coorpation refer a lager amount of clients to boarding school than independent run programs.

In this research Anasazi send 90 percent of their clients home, while SUWS and Aspen Archievement Academy only manage to do this with 40 and 50 percent.

Some might assume that the staff in the wilderness programs owned by huge companies may be under some pressure to "feed" the foodchain consisting of boarding schools owned by the same companies. Personally I don't believe that there is any difference in quality of these programs but other factors may like who is paying the salery may be of some importance.


"Oh, I see.  It's a money thing with you", as Whooter spits it out in his pissy way when the ludicrous costs and (formerly) ludicrous profits of Aspen are mentioned.  It does seem insane for a parent to pay someone thousands of dollars to treat their child in a way that would get the parents arrested.  Far as I'm concerned, every program "restraint" should be investigated as a physical assault on a child by State Police, not the local cornfed cops who cover the asses of programs.  A counselor might show more patience if the outcome of an inappropriate restraint were a brutal, well-earned ass-raping in the adult program called "prison".  

There's all kinda money, here, Oscar!  Look at -  STICC, for example.  Non profit is very profitable, just make the money disappear at the end of the year and it's legit.  For me, anyway.  Screw everyone else.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 03:57:50 PM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
I saw a research about wilderness programs way back.

Theoretical Basis, Process, and Reported Outcomes of Wilderness Therapy as an Intervention and Treatment for Problem Behavior in Adolescents

On page 23 a table clearly illustrate that wilderness programs which are a part of a larger coorpation refer a lager amount of clients to boarding school than independent run programs.

In this research Anasazi send 90 percent of their clients home, while SUWS and Aspen Archievement Academy only manage to do this with 40 and 50 percent.

Some might assume that the staff in the wilderness programs owned by huge companies may be under some pressure to "feed" the foodchain consisting of boarding schools owned by the same companies. Personally I don't believe that there is any difference in quality of these programs but other factors may like who is paying the salery may be of some importance.

There are many kids who have applied to schools like ASR and others and found that the school recommended SUWS prior to being accepted into the program.  So this would raise the percentage considerably.

So there are two groups.. those who are entering SUWS on their way to a program and those who are just utilizing the wilderness piece. Now after completion of wilderness there may be further recommendations for some kids to get more help and they may go on to a program setting also.
I also think it would be natural for employees of SUWS to recommend an Aspen program over any others especially if Aspen had a solution.  Why would they send the kids to a competing program if they could help them within the Aspen Group?



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Offline John Whooter Reuben

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 04:21:26 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

We want your money.  Ha, ha, ha.

...

Any idea how many kids face the horror of being rejected by one of your fine Aspen institutions like ASR?  I mean, you make it sound like it's a lofty achievement to be plopped in the middle of a bunch of parental disappointments and budding Whooters in a penal colony.  Does any poor child not make the cut for Aspen?  How many teens are saddened when are told they don't have what it takes to be an Aspen prisoner?  

Pay the money, Aspen will find a reason to keep your kids locked up indefinitely as long as you can afford it.  Careful, there are no guarantees.  Fornits is rife with accounts of Aspen alumni succumbing to drug addiction and death following "treatment" in an Aspen program.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 06:14:25 PM »
Quote from: "John Whooter Reuben"
Any idea how many kids face the horror of being rejected by one of your fine Aspen institutions like ASR? I mean, you make it sound like it's a lofty achievement to be plopped in the middle of a bunch of parental disappointments and budding Whooters in a penal colony. Does any poor child not make the cut for Aspen? How many teens are saddened when are told they don't have what it takes to be an Aspen prisoner?

I wouldn’t exactly call it a horror at being rejected.  But a couple kids were very disappointed that they didn’t get into ASR from SUWS and one ended up going home and the other went to a place in Maine (if I remember correctly).  The kids themselves don’t refer to the place as a penal colony or prison, that’s just a fornits tag.  My high school had fences around it and was tougher to escape than ASR is.  I think you have bought into all the hype here on fornits that they lock these kids away.  The kids can leave anytime they want.
The kids in my daughters peer group are planning an ASR reunion.  They started a facebook or website where they can meet.  Penal colonies rarely do this lol.

Quote
Pay the money, Aspen will find a reason to keep your kids locked up indefinitely as long as you can afford it. Careful, there are no guarantees. Fornits is rife with accounts of Aspen alumni succumbing to drug addiction and death following "treatment" in an Aspen program.

I do, somewhat agree with you here.  Many people use to say that about Boston University.  If your daddy was rich then it didn’t matter what your SAT scores were.  I guess to a certain extent that is true.  If a parent says they will donate a ton of money to build a library or such then I am sure they will let their daughter attend and turn a blind eye to the entrance requirements as long as the kid wasn't violent.  But short of that the child needs to meet certain criteria to be accepted there.



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Offline M_Hilton

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 03:20:56 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
Familylight writes about problems with a former Mount Bachelor detainee. Rather interesting.

Aspen Marketing -- Referral from One Aspen Program to Another


yea i can say thats mostlikely true wile i think SUWS did some good things for me the fact that they convinced my family to send me to another program after completing SUWS is shady imo
and the fact that the 2nd one was run by the former owners of SUWS you may have heard of them aldridge academy so yea par for course
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Offline Troll Control

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Aspen Wilderness Far Less Succcessful Than Competitors
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2010, 10:45:31 AM »
Quote from: "Oscar"
I saw a research about wilderness programs way back.

Theoretical Basis, Process, and Reported Outcomes of Wilderness Therapy as an Intervention and Treatment for Problem Behavior in Adolescents

On page 23 a table clearly illustrate that wilderness programs which are a part of a larger coorpation refer a lager amount of clients to boarding school than independent run programs.

In this research Anasazi send 90 percent of their clients home, while SUWS and Aspen Archievement Academy only manage to do this with 40 and 50 percent.

Some might assume that the staff in the wilderness programs owned by huge companies may be under some pressure to "feed" the foodchain consisting of boarding schools owned by the same companies. Personally I don't believe that there is any difference in quality of these programs but other factors may like who is paying the salery may be of some importance.

This is a very interesting point.  Aspen seems to "feed kids into the machine" about 90% of the time while their competitors seem to have better outcomes (self-reported)  and send kids home.  If Aspen wilderness programs were actually successful at treating these kids, why is it that almost none of them ever seem to get discharged?  This has the look and feel of a racket.

Quote from: "From the Article"
...people who speak as if Aspen programs are consistently better than all others  are at best misinformed and are probably not reliable sources of referral. **{sounds like a certain marketing person we all know here on Fornits that goes by the handles "TheWho," "Whooter" and "Mitt Romney" among others}**  We note that the State of Oregon has taken licensing actions that have led to the shutdown of two Aspen programs operating in that state:  Sagewalk Wilderness in Oregon closed following the death of a participant. Then Mt. Bachelor Academy closed following license suspension.  
*Emphasis and editorializing added...

For a company that is continouously "evolving" and "changing for the better" (lols) they sure seem to keep killing kids and getting forcibly shut down for the same abuses occurring over decades.
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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Aspen marketing - concern expressed by FamilyLight
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 09:54:24 PM »
FamilyLight shows up in this thread.
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...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...