ELAN school staff are well trained

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Then, why are you here?

 That is not a reason. I asked why you were here.  If you feel that there is such an abundance of former Elan residents, who are actually worthy of your attention, and the people here aren't, then why do you consistently post here?
 
Because I can and with that right I converse with who I want to.
 
There is no law that say that everyone who has been in Elan for certain amount of time, has to take up space in Fornits, and the reason I say take up space, is because nothing much seems to come out of you
Really and here I thought I was contributing to fornits archives.  

... as far as I ve seen anyone..

 It seems like you just like to disagree with people.. That is my perception.
There you go with that perception thing again, please put it away before you get injured or something.  

( Just figured I d say that b4 you point it out to me.)

Ha, ha.... ha, ha...ha, ha..





 
You come here simply to evade questions?

Only the disingenuous ones.

Right.  So any question from a pissed off person is a false question?

[/color]
Not exactly I would not put it that way. I do not believe they are pissed off, most here from Elan who post I have answered there questions. Now they are just playing out a latent hostility that I can not cure with more answers.  

They're trying to trick and deceive you Danny?  Is that your claim?

No I don't think that, I just think they are being disingenuous.

They are fakes?

No!!!!! But you are......

Perhaps, they are really not mad about what happened to him?  This is all just a big act on their part?  [/color]

Now why would you say that about them, there goes that perception again....lol.


 
 Well, maybe you are just percieving the questions to be disengenuine...   That doesn t mean that it is necessarily reality.. C'mon, man.. get with the program.. I thought you knew these things.

Very witty aren't you, I bet your very charming also.

Well, I'll sleep well, tonight, knowing that I have your endorsement, Danny.

Try not to be cute, OK.



Respectful?  Why the hell should they be respectful? They're pissed off. You ought answer their questions now.  They re the victims

.


No you are not the only victims, your arrogance does not appeal to me either.
 
I'll make a note of that, dick.
Not very polite, please refrain from commenting on my anatomy.  

Please, re-read my comment. I called you a dick... not a twat.

I asked you not to be cute....shitty boy.



 Your not owed anything.


Indeed, I am not.
 
However, what I meant was.. If I were you, I d be willingly answer questions, now.  Because the tables are gonna turn someday...
and I would guess that it is probably gonna be in your lifetime.  


Well the tables are always turning son, so get used to it. It is called "change" the only inevitable in life.

You're kidding me, right?

No I would not try to manipulate you.


I told you already your questions as your motives are disingenuous. I answer questions all the time with folks from Elan and elsewhere just not on this site. Nobody here yet has earned my trust.

[color=#FFBF00

] You're smug.  You are very smug.

No I would not call it smug.

Innocent teenagers were terrorized and border-line tortured without purpose or reason.

Stop with all the drama this is where you start to smell of disingenuous.

It was done as sport, and if you were there, you know that.

No I do not know that and (you absolutely don't know). You have no idea of what your talking of, this conversation
is starting to smell like you "shitty boy".

Society will not turn a blind eye to this forever.

Who is saying "Society" is turning a blind eye, you. Society also has a "perception".

When the tables have turned, and they will, will you still be so smug?

Well since I wasn't smug before, NO. I told you young one tables have always been turning, nothing stays the same.
Remember perception.


[/color]

If you think that they should have to kiss your ass, in order to get answers, well, then that is fine.  You are allowed to think that.  But you can t think that, and act like you are walking on some higher moral ground, at the same time.

I did not think that was my reality. But your entitled to your perceptions.

Again, why are you here?  Are you just trying to prove to yourself that you can withstand the scrutiny? Can you see how your prescence here, along with your way of no affect, can be bothering people?

Like I said that is your perception it does not make it a reality. I am here because I am a survivor and a former employer. As far as affecting me well I am sorry it is not happening they way you want it.

 
No.. Not really my perception.  More of a curiosity.  I was just wondering.
Well stop it doesn't help your overall mentality. Really now.....lol.

What are you trying to tell me, Danny?  That I am stupid?

Well if the shoe fits......

Honestly, Danny, you are in their RING now, and I think they are being pretty nice about the whole thing.

STFU...please.
 
and here I am, trying to be nice in my post.. and respect the new fornits rules ( I know.. I did just call you a dick, but you started..LOL)
STFU....again, PLEASE.

I don't know much about ya man, but I know that you are smug, and I know that there was something that I didn t like about ya from the first thing I read from you.  You are posting on survivor forum, openly admitting that you were a counselor, and acting like your shit don't stink.

Isn't that amazing that you don't get to kick me around based on some false information you have had stored up in your head (it is called latent) for all these years.

 I would like to respond to this statement, but I have no clue what you are talking about.  

1.  Who says, I can t kick ya around? Maybe I'm just not trying to.
2. If I couldn t kick you around, why would that be so amazing?
3. What latent have I have stored in my head for all these years. Are you saying that I think I have information about you, personally?  Are you saying that the infromation I have about Elan is false?

STFU #3 times over now.

You don't actually like to answer anything, do you?  Well, I guess it is easier to tell people to shut up.

Yes I do like to answer alot of questions, I am doing it now with you. More then I give most folks here. I don't tell "people" to shut up just "shitty boys".


[/color]

Do you really think that people wanna see your stupid clover after every post?  They don't.  They are not interested in your self-promotion.

Well I don't know what to say other then "Too Bad", shitty boy.


 Shitty Boy.  That's a good one. Maybe you are right.. Maybe I should just back off.  Perhaps, I am nothing more then a shitty boy..
Thank you for understanding.



 

Again, I ve been trying to avoid the whole personal attack thing..   But it's cool.. See, most of what I want to know about ya, I am learning right now, and you are losing your cool a bit, Daniel .


Wow!!!! are you now learning about perception. Your growing up before my eyes.

I got more intelligence in my pinky, then you got in your entire being,

I said I do not want to talk about anatomy. "My Being" is my spirit and my spirit is huge, finite. Your ego is large try to be humble.

so do me a favor and stop acting so condescending.

[/color]
I would like to do you favors but it is not condescending that your seeing it is someone older then you.
 
 They want information.[/quote]
They, who is "they" ?? You don't want information as in cleansing to the soul, you want dirt for your angry hole.

Well, I am a shitty boy, and shitty boys need to keep their holes dirty.. Kinda comes with territory.

Ya it does......you smell.

You're a bonafide idiot.

Com'on be fair and don't stoop to attacking, shitty boy.

 

They want an apology.

You got it, you have always had it.


 Honestly, I think that means something.. I should probably let ya know, that I never went there, so you do not need to apologise to me, but i do think it means something that you said that.

Oh I gon'na cry....

Okay, so first say you apologize, and then you come back with this.

I thought your comment above was a facetious. I apologize.

You fraudulent fuck.

No have never been that.[/color]
 

You ain't got an oz. of legitimate remorse in you. You're just a cruel dickhead,

Well I am sorry this is all you see, because there is so much more. Don't you get vicious when your
little ole feeling are hurt. That is why I call you "shitty boy" because it doesn't take much to bring
this out.

who will only talk to people who still understand that you are the counselor.[/color]

Now this is just silly.

If you are trying to vindicate yourself, well, here's your opportunity, right here in Fornits.

Son grow up please there is no vindication anywhere here on fornits.

 
Again, this is why I am asking you why you are here.  You talk so bad about this "place" but ya keep coming around.

No again you have a hard time understanding, I like fornits it is the Elanians here I don't trust.

Dumbass! Doesn t it make a little more sense that you should be earning their trust?

No, why in heck would I want to earn trust from folks that I don't trust at all and "WHY AM I TALKING WITH YOU".
This is it, till next time.



 I am already there have been there for almost 30 years.


 
My purpose here as I always said is a personal one that few know.
Well that is your journey here I would assume.


I didn't write that.  You did.  But, I suppose you do know a thing or two about perceptions.


Hence, mystery-man

You seem like you are a possibly a decent guy... Think about it mystery-man.

I am a very decent man, Thanks. No mystery,if you had read my posts as you said you did, I wonder though.
Paul

I read a few.. Just a few..



Danny[/quote][/quote]

Somebody left their shamrock at home....


 :shamrock:

There we go!

Bye Bye

OLe` danny boy the pipes the pipes are calling...............oboyo.

I'm glad you are having such a good time, Danny.

ALWAYS.............

Paul St. John[/color][/quote]

P.S.
Paul if you want to have a real sincere conversation with me then PM me and I will talk.


Danny

[Inculcated]

I don’t know if this discussion is going anywhere … other than the same coy little bread crumb chase from thread to thread that’s gone on for months. For now, you guys all seem to enjoy having it so..fare thee well.
The smilies and tangled misuse of the quote feature make most of the exchanges barely legible. I’m bothered that I bothered to squint my way through it only to find little more than more of the same.
No matter how much resizing and highlighting is used it doesn’t make the ^ content informative.
And Quit NAMECALLING other posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or take your  :shamrock:  etc. to the drama box

[Paul St. John]

Me:Innocent teenagers were terrorized and border-line tortured without purpose or reason.

 You:Stop with all the drama this is where you start to smell of disingenuous.

I think this is where you and me differ.  I don't think I am being dramatic- not even a little. I am stating facts.  What I wrote above is true.  
I mean the actual experience that people went through, was dramatic, and yes, absolutely, definitely, also, traumatic. If a realistic movie were to be made about it, I think it would be classified as a drama, and possibly even horror. ( and I don't think that I am exxagerating there.If you do, perhaps, you should remind yourself)

Okay, now what I wrote there is very clear.  If you think I am wrong, you can tell me why, but if you have to come back, with something witty, or funny, or evasive, then you are really not worth talking to.

Me: It was done as sport, and if you were there, you know that.

 You:  No I do not know that and (you absolutely don't know). You have no idea of what your talking of, this conversation
is starting to smell like you "shitty boy".

I do know it, Danny.  I know that it was done as sport.  I am certain of it.



Well, that s about it for me.. As is often the case, I am not even sure how I got into this conversation.  I can argue with you 'til I am blue in the face, but even if I win, what have I won? particularly when this has become little more then a childish battle of the wits, and we keep moving forward into new territory, without even finishing what we were originally talking about.

You think that my feelings were coming out of me.. There we go with the perception thing again. (no pun intended) Actually I was very complacent, when responding to you.. and it actually required effort to respond the way I did.  I really don't care if you think I am a shitty boy..

or if you tell me that I smell..


and honestly, I am not even sure what  think of ya.  I know that you are a bit of a bullshit artist, but most people are, particularly in certain circumstances, so what business is that of mine, really?

I'm not sure that I would classify you as a bad guy.  And even if you were, I am not the Fornits police.

All, I know is that you rubbed me the wrong way, personally, but that happens in life.

I learned about Elan inadvertantly.. It became something that concerned me, inadverently.  In the end, all I really want.. All I really care about, is that the truth come out in full color, and that the place no longer exist.  I want society, to fully take the side of the victims.

That's my hope.. To what extent, I want to have anything to do with that coming about, I am not sure.  All I know is, I always find myself coming back to this forum, just like out of nowhere.

I also know, that I do, in fact, like the idea of battling and exposing a counselor.

Paul St. John

[DannyB II]

I don’t know if this discussion is going anywhere … other than the same coy little bread crumb chase from thread to thread that’s gone on for months. For now, you guys all seem to enjoy having it so..fare thee well.
The smilies and tangled misuse of the quote feature make most of the exchanges barely legible. I’m bothered that I bothered to squint my way through it only to find little more than more of the same.
No matter how much resizing and highlighting is used it doesn’t make the ^ content informative.
And Quit NAMECALLING other posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or take your  :shamrock:  etc. to the drama box

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Inculcate we have been here before, mind your own business. OK. Don't read it.

Danny

[Paul St. John]

No matter how much resizing and highlighting is used it doesn’t make the ^ content informative.
And Quit NAMECALLING other posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or take your  :shamrock:  etc. to the drama box

No, it does not.. It is only an attempts on our parts to make clear who is writing what..

Anyway.. It's true nothing much of purpose came out of it.  At best, it may have entertaining exchange to some.. But if you're looking for entertainment, that is what the Elan Reporter is for,

I would like to say that his posts, completely hurt both Fornits, and the cause of exposing Elan, because who people who find that, when researching, simply can t take any of it seriously.  It is crude, and makes the victims, look like they might be the wrong ones.. Just a bunch of childish people complaining about having to grow up> Of course that is not the case. I am onl;y saying that it can appear this way.



Anyway, as much as I would like to say all that, I cant.  Because I think, while some of the humor is just too childish, most of it is fucking hysterical.  I actually get a kick out of reading it.  Also, it's got a lot of truth and intelligence mingled throughout, and is extremely creative.




But clearly, there needs to be some real content here, and mine and danny's conversation, is not that.

Paul St. John

[Paul St. John]

I don’t know if this discussion is going anywhere … other than the same coy little bread crumb chase from thread to thread that’s gone on for months. For now, you guys all seem to enjoy having it so..fare thee well.
The smilies and tangled misuse of the quote feature make most of the exchanges barely legible. I’m bothered that I bothered to squint my way through it only to find little more than more of the same.
No matter how much resizing and highlighting is used it doesn’t make the ^ content informative.
And Quit NAMECALLING other posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or take your  :shamrock:  etc. to the drama box

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Inculcate we have been here before, mind your own business. OK. Don't read it.

Danny

I would have to agree with you, Danny..

...except that she is the moderator of this section of Fornits.. I can think of few others where you would not be banned, for this kinda shit.


As matter of a fact, I also saw that you told Ginger to mind her own business.( this is one of the things that I did not like) This is her site.  I don't know where you think you get off.  Most site owners would not even tolerate that shit.

Well, perceptions are perceptions.. I admit, but it really does seem, like you think you have athority over these people.

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Me:Innocent teenagers were terrorized and border-line tortured without purpose or reason.

 You:Stop with all the drama this is where you start to smell of disingenuous.

I think this is where you and me differ.  I don't think I am being dramatic- not even a little. I am stating facts.  What I wrote above is true.  
I mean the actual experience that people went through, was dramatic, and yes, absolutely, definitely, also, traumatic. If a realistic movie were to be made about it, I think it would be classified as a drama, and possibly even horror. ( and I don't think that I am exxagerating there.If you do, perhaps, you should remind yourself)

 
You told me you never went to Elan yet your interrogating like you went there, Ok I accepted that. Then you started the name calling with the "dick' comment (and your little Miss Muffin Inculcate came to your defense), I came back with my comments.
 

Okay, now what I wrote there is very clear.  If you think I am wrong, you can tell me why, but if you have to come back, with something witty, or funny, or evasive, then you are really not worth talking to.

 
Nothing to come back with, you said it very well.
 

Me: It was done as sport, and if you were there, you know that.

You:  No I do not know that and (you absolutely don't know). You have no idea of what your talking of, this conversation
is starting to smell like you "shitty boy".

I do know it, Danny.  I know that it was done as sport.  I am certain of it.

Well look who has been mysterious, what TC/program were you with or where is your experience coming from. Time to pony up my boy, name, rank and serial #.

Well, that s about it for me.. As is often the case, I am not even sure how I got into this conversation.  I can argue with you 'til I am blue in the face, but even if I win, what have I won? particularly when this has become little more then a childish battle of the wits, and we keep moving forward into new territory, without even finishing what we were originally talking about.

I would hope that you take some responsibility for that, now lets get down to business.

You think that my feelings were coming out of me.. There we go with the perception thing again. (no pun intended) Actually I was very complacent, when responding to you.. and it actually required effort to respond the way I did.  I really don't care if you think I am a shitty boy.. or if you tell me that I smell..

That was nothing more then a antagonistic ploy on my part because I felt you were messing around. You never explained anything about yourself yet you wanted answers from me. Who are you?? Introduction would have been nice.

and honestly, I am not even sure what  think of ya.  I know that you are a bit of a bullshit artist, but most people are, particularly in certain circumstances, so what business is that of mine, really?

Don't analyze me please I have a friend that does that, No John I don't bullshit at all (there goes your perception again).

I'm not sure that I would classify you as a bad guy.  And even if you were, I am not the Fornits police.

Thank You
.

All, I know is that you rubbed me the wrong way, personally, but that happens in life

.
As soon as you can stop being self-centered maybe you can see how this whole relationship started, you came barging into my life here with all kinds of questions and accusations without even a "HI",  That rubs me the wrong way.

I learned about Elan inadvertantly.. It became something that concerned me, inadverently.  In the end, all I really want.. All I really care about, is that the truth come out in full color, and that the place no longer exist.  I want society, to fully take the side of the victims.

Well stop inadvertently stepping all over people from Elan you don't like. Just because I was a staff member doesn't mean I was a counselor, I was far from that. I started being staff at 17yrs old and finished at 19yrs old. That should give you a picture of my career as staff. I am 51 now.  

That's my hope.. To what extent, I want to have anything to do with that coming about, I am not sure.  All I know is, I always find myself coming back to this forum, just like out of nowhere.

Well lets start over and continue this conversation on a more adventurous/educational script. I do need to talk about my experiences with Elan but I have not found anyone here that will talk responsibly. So lets do it.

I also know, that I do, in fact, like the idea of battling and exposing a counselor.

Now that will get the door shut in your face quickly, I don't mind being exposed have been now for 9 mons. here. If you want to talk all I ask is be responsible and respectful this is a very vulnerable conversation. Can you handle it because I am only offering it to you and you only.
 

Paul St. John

Danny

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:

I don’t know if this discussion is going anywhere … other than the same coy little bread crumb chase from thread to thread that’s gone on for months. For now, you guys all seem to enjoy having it so..fare thee well.
The smilies and tangled misuse of the quote feature make most of the exchanges barely legible. I’m bothered that I bothered to squint my way through it only to find little more than more of the same.
No matter how much resizing and highlighting is used it doesn’t make the ^ content informative.
And Quit NAMECALLING other posters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!or take your  :shamrock:  etc. to the drama box

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:

Inculcate we have been here before, mind your own business. OK. Don't read it.

Danny

I would have to agree with you, Danny..

...except that she is the moderator of this section of Fornits.. I can think of few others where you would not be banned, for this kinda shit.


As matter of a fact, I also saw that you told Ginger to mind her own business.( this is one of the things that I did not like) This is her site.  I don't know where you think you get off.  Most site owners would not even tolerate that shit.

Well, perceptions are perceptions.. I admit, but it really does seem, like you think you have athority over these people.

No she is not, she is filling in. Because nobody else (from Elan) would step up and fornits just had to have a forum called Elan. The only time Inculcate says or does anything concerning Elan is when she doesn't like what I am doing or saying. She is so obvious with her prejudice.
As far as Ginger or anyone else is concerned I will rebut in my way. To your thought of me having authority na, just speak my mind with authority. I don't have any power here unless it is given and that I am sure will never happen...lol.


Danny

[Paul St. John]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Well look who has been mysterious, what TC/program were you with or where is your experience coming from.  Time to pony up my boy, name, rank and serial #.

I figured you would run away John St. Paul. No balls...No Glory my friend.


Oh.. ya figured huh?   My life requires that I spend the majority of my time away from my computer screen.

.. like most people's



This is what I deal with on a continuances bases, folks confront me for no apparent reason then disappear.

Well, either the wolrd is out to get ya, or it is something that you are doing.

Well toodles.

I'm not feeling very well, Danny.  I have a fever, and I am tired.. Perhaps, we could pick this up another time.  I am not even sure what much I have to contribute, but perhaps after some sleep.

As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you..

But I honestly don t know what to make of you, and I don t care.  I still say that you are smug..lol.. I don t care what you say ... That is my opinion.


I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care.  I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..

And, though I know her and like her, Inculcated is clearly biased.. She does not like you.. What I don t know is whether or not it is justified, but I also don t feel like finding out right now.. so perhaps another


I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..

Well, I also do want I want to do.

I consider her a friend, not to mentuion that she makes it possible for you, me, and everybody else to post here, and I think you should show her a little more respect in her own property.  Yes, you can do what you want.. if she is going to allow it,


but so can I!




Umm.. Before, I go.. real quick ( lol.. this eats up so much time)  I just address the mystery man-  thing.. I went to Daytop.. I witnessed these people on a daily basis.  I have read here and elsewhere, post after post about Elan, and I have spoken with one woman on the phone, who immersed me in years of torturous details.

I understand these people.. I understand how they work.  They enjoy it.. It is done for sport.  There was no ring at Daytop.  It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..

and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.


But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..

They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.

I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse.  I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.


Paul


Danny

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:

Well look who has been mysterious, what TC/program were you with or where is your experience coming from.  Time to pony up my boy, name, rank and serial #.

I figured you would run away John St. Paul. No balls...No Glory my friend.

Oh.. ya figured huh?   My life requires that I spend the majority of my time away from my computer screen.

.. like most people's

This is true I really do understand this.

This is what I deal with on a continuances bases, folks confront me for no apparent reason then disappear.

Well, either the wolrd is out to get ya, or it is something that you are doing.

Now honestly there is a good point, I do bring some of the flac my way.

Well toodles.

I'm not feeling very well, Danny.  I have a fever, and I am tired.. Perhaps, we could pick this up another time.  I am not even sure what much I have to contribute, but perhaps after some sleep.

Sorry to hear this.

As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you.

.
Why are you disliking me you don't even know me nor know my history on fornits. What you call smug I wish to call defensive mechanism, keeping undesirables at bay.  

But I honestly don t know what to make of you, and I don t care.  I still say that you are smug..lol.. I don t care what you say ... That is my opinion.

You don't care, now that is not nice, smug maybe a little. You have good opinions.

I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care.  I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..

Ask the woman if she knows me Daniel L. Bennison.....it would help here. Elan was a nightmare for everyone concerned here. I am not proud at all of my affiliations with Elan. I can't change what happened.

And, though I know her and like her, Inculcated is clearly biased.. She does not like you.. What I don t know is whether or not it is justified, but I also don t feel like finding out right now.. so perhaps another

Oh I would think some of it is justified and some is not but at this point she just needs to get over it. She just carries it on and on. I am going to be who I am maybe you like maybe you don't but to continue to beat me over the head about it is not going to work.

I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..

I happen to have a lot of respect for Ginger, I get carried away but I try real hard not to push the envelope to far. Not because of banning but because it is wrong.  I am new to this verbal debate arena so I am still learning. But I also have respect for Psy, Ursus , whooter, Pile, DJ, Felice, Anne, Inculcate....ect. I just don't agree on the same things more then not but I don't believe that means I should not be here. All the more reason for me to be here, why am I disagreeing with my peers. Is it all me or a consortium of different ideas with the group here.

Well, I also do want I want to do.

Well that OK, I guess.

I consider her a friend, not to mentuion that she makes it possible for you, me, and everybody else to post here, and I think you should show her a little more respect in her own property.  Yes, you can do what you want.. if she is going to allow it,
but so can I

!
Yes she does and I don't think I take that for granted but I will take into consideration that my actions are displaying this possibly.

Umm.. Before, I go.. real quick ( lol.. this eats up so much time)  I just address the mystery man-  thing.. I went to Daytop.. I witnessed these people on a daily basis.  I have read here and elsewhere, post after post about Elan, and I have spoken with one woman on the phone, who immersed me in years of torturous details.

I went to Daytop when I was 12 almost 13 yrs. in NYC. I was there for a few months, maybe the youngest they had ever had up to that point. It was very surreal looking back on it.
As I said Joe turned Elan into his personal nightmare, he was a very sick man.

I understand these people.. I understand how they work.  They enjoy it.. It is done for sport.  There was no ring at Daytop.  It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..

Yes some Staff and Directors did do this for sport and if they mentally fucked you enough you could possibly do it to other residents, I did as a resident and as staff. I just don't know if I did it as a sport because I really was not getting a big kick out of screaming at people or all the other abuses Elan had.

and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.

I also know some folks living that way myself Elan was a big part but his life before and after was a mess. Their family life sucked ect....

But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..

Not all staff enjoyed watching people go through pain we just felt helpless to stop it, like I had no balls. Is that a excuse, of course not but it is the truth. At that point in my life I I felt could not nor would not stand up for the residents. I was so overwhelmed by Elan I did not even think to get help, reach out to the authorities. I thought some of the behavioral methods they were using were wrong ei: Ring, spanking, cowboy ass kicking but other methods I thought helped. That is how fucked up I was.I just wanted out when I left and never wanted to speak of it again.  

They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.

Yes breaking you down psychologically but not having a clue as to how to bring you back. Yes that is what is happening in most of the TC's. Staff that is uneducated (barley have H.S. diploma) and inexperienced educated staff being put in charge to run therapeutic systems, ie: group sessions, individual counseling, writing progress reports, writing psychological profiles ect.....  

I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse.  I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.

Not all Paul, not all. Yes I will agree I don't think I have heard of another program like Elan from 1974 on things at Elan got sicker and sicker as Joe got sicker.

Paul[/b]


Danny

[Paul St. John]

Hey What's up, Danny.. I got a feeling you have been waiting for me. Seems you ve been having some fun over here, since I left.. Like a solitary ship, in the ocean, being hit with missiles from all directions- all these considerred, you are holding your own quite well.. It would be hard not to respect that.

I gotta think that you really wanna talk about this shit too.  I mean, you gotta be in a pretty lonely position with this shit.  Former residents don t like ya much

.. and I gotta think Elan staff likes ya even less. You have no one to relate with.

As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you.

.
Why are you disliking me you don't even know me nor know my history on fornits.

I'm not so sure that I dislike you anymore.  You are imperfect, like myself or anybody else, and you are in a weird position, which could cause you to act certain ways defensively.  I understand that what you are doing is not easy.  

You may think that I am psyco-analyzing you, but I am me, I am have to use the tools that I have to dsicerne reality, and so I will say that, some of your actions on your site, are inconsistant with what seems to be your core personality, and I think taht they are simply a result of insecurity, and defense.  You do like yourself, in spite of problems with yourself, and you get ahead of yourself in trying to prove that.




 What you call smug I wish to call defensive mechanism, keeping undesirables at bay.  

I know, and when you say it, it does not seem bad, but if I had said it, it would have seemed like an attack.  It makes sense though.  You know that you did something that is wrong, and it is very hard and vulnerable experience, to come out with it, and of course, you do not want to come out with it, only to be attacked and made a fool of.


]

I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care.  I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..

Ask the woman if she knows me Daniel L. Bennison.....it would help here. Elan was a nightmare for everyone concerned here. I am not proud at all of my affiliations with Elan. I can't change what happened.


I will. Perhaps, you 2 will even want to communicate.

I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..

I happen to have a lot of respect for Ginger, I get carried away but I try real hard not to push the envelope to far. Not because of banning but because it is wrong.  I am new to this verbal debate arena so I am still learning. But I also have respect for Psy, Ursus , whooter, Pile, DJ, Felice, Anne, Inculcate....ect. I just don't agree on the same things more then not but I don't believe that means I should not be here. All the more reason for me to be here, why am I disagreeing with my peers. Is it all me or a consortium of different ideas with the group here.

Inculcate is cool.. Psy and Ursus seem cool.. I don t really know the other ones, but I am sure they are cool, too.  This is something else.. this site.

I mean.. Just think about it.. It could just easily not exist, but it does.  This is why I respect Ginger.  She is the mother of all this.. None of it had to be, and Fornits is a force to be reckoned with.. Great vision involved here. IMHO


Yes she does and I don't think I take that for granted but I will take into consideration that my actions are displaying this possibly.

Hmm.... See, to me, at this point.. You don t seem to be a bad guy at all. I think ya got a bit of illegitimate bad rap, but I also think, as you say, you brought some of it upon yourself..

I'm a dick sometimes, too.....LOL




As I said Joe turned Elan into his personal nightmare, he was a very sick man. [/color]

He sounds like real sick Fuck.  My understanding  is that Elan was originally suppose to be a kinder, gentler Daytop, and that good ol' Joe Ricci was a daytop resident.  Well, it seems something went wrong, somewhere.  Very wrong.

I understand these people.. I understand how they work.  They enjoy it.. It is done for sport.  There was no ring at Daytop.  It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..

Yes some Staff and Directors did do this for sport and if they mentally fucked you enough you could possibly do it to other residents, I did as a resident and as staff. I just don't know if I did it as a sport because I really was not getting a big kick out of screaming at people or all the other abuses Elan had.

I seen many staff, and status, do it for sport.  I seen it.


I remember there was one staff-girl there when I first started.  She was young.. maybe like 21.  She was the only one there who wasn t formerly a resident.  She was the only one there who seemed to me overall, like she was a normal person.. She was playing the Daytop game, but it was not in her heart, and I knew this. I think she was mostly a a young, maybe a bit naieve, career minded woman.


I'm not sure what exactly happened, but I know she quit at some point, and we were all banned from having any communications with her. I didn t mean shit to me, but some of the people had a very strong bond with her..

Every resident had their own like primary counselor.  For the people who had her.. One day, she was like the most important authority in your life, and the next day, suddenly, she was an untouchable.  One thing I do remember, is that a lot of the parents favored over other counselors, and that made them steaming mad, as he did have the training they did.. and blah.. blah.. and of course this was taken out on the parent's child- so damn unprofessional.


and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.

I also know some folks living that way myself Elan was a big part but his life before and after was a mess. Their family life sucked ect....


Yeah, but I ll tell ya danny, this guy may have had some problems... but for the most part, he was just another guy at daytop. Umm.. He wasn t one of the kids, who smoked a lil pot, and their parents bugged out and sent them there.. But he wasn t a heroine or a crack addict either.. he was like in the middle.

I'm tellin' ya.. he was just another residents.. I v met his parents too.. they seemed like good people.. He was well off too..

But that fucking day, changed this dude's life, and set him on a new path, that last I checked, he still has not gotten off of.. he's not a bad guy at all.. he's just a compulsive, who lives in a world of delusions.  It all happenned that fucking day.. they changed that fucking dudes life forever.

Would the same thing have broken me?  Absolutely not!  So can people say.. " Oh, well he was weak!"

I guess so.. But still it wasn t fucking necessary.  H was young and his mind was simply not strong enough to handle that humiliation.  One thing was worse about Daytop, then Elan, is that in Elan, at least most people knew, they were in a crazy place.. In daytop, most people actually did believe in the shit.  

But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..

Not all staff enjoyed watching people go through pain we just felt helpless to stop it, like I had no balls. Is that a excuse, of course not but it is the truth. At that point in my life I I felt could not nor would not stand up for the residents. I was so overwhelmed by Elan I did not even think to get help, reach out to the authorities. I thought some of the behavioral methods they were using were wrong ei: Ring, spanking, cowboy ass kicking but other methods I thought helped. That is how fucked up I was.I just wanted out when I left and never wanted to speak of it again.  


I think that that is why that girl left. I understand .  When you are immersed in a reality, it can almost seem that reality itself has turned upside-down.

The self can get lost in it all.

I would have to think that when it is tucked away in the woods, that can make it all the more encompassing.  

They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.

Yes breaking you down psychologically but not having a clue as to how to bring you back. Yes that is what is happening in most of the TC's. Staff that is uneducated (barley have H.S. diploma) and inexperienced educated staff being put in charge to run therapeutic systems, ie: group sessions, individual counseling, writing progress reports, writing psychological profiles ect.....  

But that's the thing Danny.  they are not failing at what they are trying to do.  Rather, it is impossible to do what they trying to do. You can not break down a person, and then build them up again!  It is undo-able.  It is a faulty theory, and it has never, ever worked a single time. I put my name on that.

Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.

" Well, I did go up to the random stranger, and cut the poor fuckers arm off with a chain saw, but it was only so I could give him this better robot-arm.  

He should be thanking me. He's just a baby, because he failed to make good use of the better robot arm, and now he wants to blame on me, rather then just grow up.  I mean .. Is he really still whining about the chain saw?  that's "tough love" baby!  I guess he just couldn t handle it.

and so I repeat:


Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.

Bit doesn t work.. It can t work.. It won t work. People are not designed to be broken down and rebuilt.



I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse.  I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.

Not all Paul, not all. Yes I will agree I don't think I have heard of another program like Elan from 1974 on things at Elan got sicker and sicker as Joe got sicker.

l[/b]


Yep.. very unique, indeed, this Elan school.. I think that you can be a valuable contributor.

I can say this right now.. Any Elan staff who have been following this shit, have their fingers crossed, that you remain at odds, with the other posters.

Paul St. John

Danny

[/quote]

[The Elan Reporter]

Paul, marty krudick, ken taretzky. Did you forget about the fun times years ago?

[The Elan Reporter]

What about the fucking ametures picture with manson that ginger phot shopped and we had fun with the pic?

[DannyB II]

Hey What's up, Danny.. I got a feeling you have been waiting for me. Seems you ve been having some fun over here, since I left.. Like a solitary ship, in the ocean, being hit with missiles from all directions- all these considerred, you are holding your own quite well.. It would be hard not to respect that.

I gotta think that you really wanna talk about this shit too.  I mean, you gotta be in a pretty lonely position with this shit.  Former residents don t like ya much

.. and I gotta think Elan staff likes ya even less. You have no one to relate with.

As you pointed out, I barged into your life.. Perhaps, that was a knee-jerk reaction.. I had read a few of your posts, and more and more began to dislike you.

.
Why are you disliking me you don't even know me nor know my history on fornits.

I'm not so sure that I dislike you anymore.  You are imperfect, like myself or anybody else, and you are in a weird position, which could cause you to act certain ways defensively.  I understand that what you are doing is not easy.  

You may think that I am psyco-analyzing you, but I am me, I am have to use the tools that I have to dsicerne reality, and so I will say that, some of your actions on your site, are inconsistant with what seems to be your core personality, and I think taht they are simply a result of insecurity, and defense.  You do like yourself, in spite of problems with yourself, and you get ahead of yourself in trying to prove that.




 What you call smug I wish to call defensive mechanism, keeping undesirables at bay.  

I know, and when you say it, it does not seem bad, but if I had said it, it would have seemed like an attack.  It makes sense though.  You know that you did something that is wrong, and it is very hard and vulnerable experience, to come out with it, and of course, you do not want to come out with it, only to be attacked and made a fool of.


]

I'm not too sure about much else, and I really don t care.  I use to speak to a girl who attended Elan.. She is probably right around your age.. She too, became staff for a very short time, while very young, and I know that she is a good person, so I cannot condemn you on that basis.. I also can t argue the merits of Elan with you, because you don t defend it.. You seem to be on the same page as everyone here, in regards that it sucks..

Ask the woman if she knows me Daniel L. Bennison.....it would help here. Elan was a nightmare for everyone concerned here. I am not proud at all of my affiliations with Elan. I can't change what happened.


I will. Perhaps, you 2 will even want to communicate.

I think you said you will deal with Ginger as you see fit ( I know it wasn t that exactly, but it was something to that effect..

I happen to have a lot of respect for Ginger, I get carried away but I try real hard not to push the envelope to far. Not because of banning but because it is wrong.  I am new to this verbal debate arena so I am still learning. But I also have respect for Psy, Ursus , whooter, Pile, DJ, Felice, Anne, Inculcate....ect. I just don't agree on the same things more then not but I don't believe that means I should not be here. All the more reason for me to be here, why am I disagreeing with my peers. Is it all me or a consortium of different ideas with the group here.

Inculcate is cool.. Psy and Ursus seem cool.. I don t really know the other ones, but I am sure they are cool, too.  This is something else.. this site.

I mean.. Just think about it.. It could just easily not exist, but it does.  This is why I respect Ginger.  She is the mother of all this.. None of it had to be, and Fornits is a force to be reckoned with.. Great vision involved here. IMHO


Yes she does and I don't think I take that for granted but I will take into consideration that my actions are displaying this possibly.

Hmm.... See, to me, at this point.. You don t seem to be a bad guy at all. I think ya got a bit of illegitimate bad rap, but I also think, as you say, you brought some of it upon yourself..

I'm a dick sometimes, too.....LOL




As I said Joe turned Elan into his personal nightmare, he was a very sick man. [/color]

He sounds like real sick Fuck.  My understanding  is that Elan was originally suppose to be a kinder, gentler Daytop, and that good ol' Joe Ricci was a daytop resident.  Well, it seems something went wrong, somewhere.  Very wrong.

I understand these people.. I understand how they work.  They enjoy it.. It is done for sport.  There was no ring at Daytop.  It was not violent at all, but I have seen things like, they ll have a guy stand up with insecurity- issues, and the attractive girls there would scream at him how repulsive he is, and things of that sort..

Yes some Staff and Directors did do this for sport and if they mentally fucked you enough you could possibly do it to other residents, I did as a resident and as staff. I just don't know if I did it as a sport because I really was not getting a big kick out of screaming at people or all the other abuses Elan had.

I seen many staff, and status, do it for sport.  I seen it.


I remember there was one staff-girl there when I first started.  She was young.. maybe like 21.  She was the only one there who wasn t formerly a resident.  She was the only one there who seemed to me overall, like she was a normal person.. She was playing the Daytop game, but it was not in her heart, and I knew this. I think she was mostly a a young, maybe a bit naieve, career minded woman.


I'm not sure what exactly happened, but I know she quit at some point, and we were all banned from having any communications with her. I didn t mean shit to me, but some of the people had a very strong bond with her..

Every resident had their own like primary counselor.  For the people who had her.. One day, she was like the most important authority in your life, and the next day, suddenly, she was an untouchable.  One thing I do remember, is that a lot of the parents favored over other counselors, and that made them steaming mad, as he did have the training they did.. and blah.. blah.. and of course this was taken out on the parent's child- so damn unprofessional.


and of the course, the person would cry.. The particular person, taht i am talking about has never been the same again, from that day in his life.. and no it's not me.. but he's been living in self-made delusions ever since.

I also know some folks living that way myself Elan was a big part but his life before and after was a mess. Their family life sucked ect....


Yeah, but I ll tell ya danny, this guy may have had some problems... but for the most part, he was just another guy at daytop. Umm.. He wasn t one of the kids, who smoked a lil pot, and their parents bugged out and sent them there.. But he wasn t a heroine or a crack addict either.. he was like in the middle.

I'm tellin' ya.. he was just another residents.. I v met his parents too.. they seemed like good people.. He was well off too..

But that fucking day, changed this dude's life, and set him on a new path, that last I checked, he still has not gotten off of.. he's not a bad guy at all.. he's just a compulsive, who lives in a world of delusions.  It all happenned that fucking day.. they changed that fucking dudes life forever.

Would the same thing have broken me?  Absolutely not!  So can people say.. " Oh, well he was weak!"

I guess so.. But still it wasn t fucking necessary.  H was young and his mind was simply not strong enough to handle that humiliation.  One thing was worse about Daytop, then Elan, is that in Elan, at least most people knew, they were in a crazy place.. In daytop, most people actually did believe in the shit.  

But what I mostly remember was how much the staff enjoyed it.. They should have stopped it, but they liked it, because they feed on unhappiness, and pain, and misery..

Not all staff enjoyed watching people go through pain we just felt helpless to stop it, like I had no balls. Is that a excuse, of course not but it is the truth. At that point in my life I I felt could not nor would not stand up for the residents. I was so overwhelmed by Elan I did not even think to get help, reach out to the authorities. I thought some of the behavioral methods they were using were wrong ei: Ring, spanking, cowboy ass kicking but other methods I thought helped. That is how fucked up I was.I just wanted out when I left and never wanted to speak of it again.  


I think that that is why that girl left. I understand .  When you are immersed in a reality, it can almost seem that reality itself has turned upside-down.

The self can get lost in it all.

I would have to think that when it is tucked away in the woods, that can make it all the more encompassing.  

They temporarily inflate their hollow egos, by crushing others, in the name of a cause.

Yes breaking you down psychologically but not having a clue as to how to bring you back. Yes that is what is happening in most of the TC's. Staff that is uneducated (barley have H.S. diploma) and inexperienced educated staff being put in charge to run therapeutic systems, ie: group sessions, individual counseling, writing progress reports, writing psychological profiles ect.....  

But that's the thing Danny.  they are not failing at what they are trying to do.  Rather, it is impossible to do what they trying to do. You can not break down a person, and then build them up again!  It is undo-able.  It is a faulty theory, and it has never, ever worked a single time. I put my name on that.

Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.

" Well, I did go up to the random stranger, and cut the poor fuckers arm off with a chain saw, but it was only so I could give him this better robot-arm.  

He should be thanking me. He's just a baby, because he failed to make good use of the better robot arm, and now he wants to blame on me, rather then just grow up.  I mean .. Is he really still whining about the chain saw?  that's "tough love" baby!  I guess he just couldn t handle it.

and so I repeat:


Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.

Bit doesn t work.. It can t work.. It won t work. People are not designed to be broken down and rebuilt.



I ve heard the stories, and I know that the Elan counselors are of the same breed as the Daytop counselors.. Except they are a lot worse.  I know these people.. I looked into them.. I know what I saw.. they could not trick me.. and they knew it.

Not all Paul, not all. Yes I will agree I don't think I have heard of another program like Elan from 1974 on things at Elan got sicker and sicker as Joe got sicker.

l[/b]


Yep.. very unique, indeed, this Elan school.. I think that you can be a valuable contributor.

I can say this right now.. Any Elan staff who have been following this shit, have their fingers crossed, that you remain at odds, with the other posters.

Paul St. John

Danny

[/quote]
 


 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
.
We are good Paul St.John. Very nice biblical name maybe a Catholic. Thanks for your replies. I will be around hope to have more conversations.

Danny

[elanasshole]

Danny I think you now understand how much pain you caused innocent victims.  They will be forever traumatized.  You should never forget that YOU played a part in that.  Think long and hard before you scream about abusive programs considering you were an abuser yourself.