Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
How many deaths have occured at Aspen Ed programs so far?
9403390:
That's my point. It would have been a good precedure if it was adhered to enough. We had the resources but did not always use them. I am afraid you are just flat out wrong about the symptoms of detox for some drugs. Some drug detox particularly for harder drugs which a few kids were taking involves nausea, vomiting and cramping. If the person is taking it easy and getting plenty of rest and fluid it is like getting over a flu. But if your kid had a bad flu the last thing you would do is make them go hiking and camping. So it doesnt make sense for places like this to take kids who are beginning to withdraw from hard drugs. It is a recipe for disaster.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "9403390" ---That's my point. It would have been a good precedure if it was adhered to enough. We had the resources but did not always use them.
--- End quote ---
I think consistency is always good. If there are procedures which are clearly laid out then they need to be followed every time.
--- Quote ---I am afraid you are just flat out wrong about the symptoms of detox for some drugs. Some drug detox particularly for harder drugs which a few kids were taking involves nausea, vomiting and cramping. If the person is taking it easy and getting plenty of rest and fluid it is like getting over a flu. But if your kid had a bad flu the last thing you would do is make them go hiking and camping. So it doesnt make sense for places like this to take kids who are beginning to withdraw from hard drugs. It is a recipe for disaster.
--- End quote ---
I am not talking about detoxing someone from hard drugs. When a person detoxs from a unhealthy lifestyle the bodies handles this through the skin and urine and occasionally through vomiting. If a person is detoxing from an addiction to hard drugs then they need to do this under the supervision of a doctor in a controlled setting.
...
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "9403390" ---you know one thing that surprised me was how normally most kids acted compared to what Id been told they behaved like. Most of them arrived pretty compliant and tried to do what you asked them. Some were a little mouthy or tried to act tough at first but then dont most kids when they are new to a situation? Some had real issues like ADD or something but they were more likely to get in trouble for just playing stupid pranks or not paying attention than faking. The kids there for drugs or behaving badly at home were actually pretty well behaved most of the time. I can see why you'd imagine there would be lot of faking but you need to understand that the hikes are pretty tough for an adult in good shape. If you are a fat kid, or your lungs are in bad shape from smoking a lot of drugs or you are just out of shape then it is pretty uncomfortable. So maybe some kids just dont know what it is like to excercise strenuously when out of shape but even if this is the case when they say they feel lousy its not faking, the probably do. Some of those kids would genuinely feel better after rest and water, but occasionally a kid wouldnt. Isnt it more logical to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and use the radio to get help? if they are faking a dr would sort it out, if not their life has been saved.
--- End quote ---
The struggle for staff, as I see it, is how to determine when there is a problem requiring medical help. If the staff aborted the hike and lead the kids down off the mountain every day to visit the doctors because a kid said he felt ill and it turned out he didn’t need a visit then even the doctor would probably ask the program to get the guy some training.
We all know that kids will quickly catch on if they say they don’t feel well and then get rewarded with a nice trip into town, with AC and a nap, versus hiking in 90 degree heat. If we assume that the staff didn’t want the kids to die then it goes back to training.
--- End quote ---
The problem with your reasoning, Whooter, is that in real life the "we-all-know" scenario rarely happens. As 9403390 clearly pointed out to you, from the perspective of a former staff member, most kids simply do not behave that way. And *I* can tell you, from my own personal experience, that to behave in such a fashion would never have even occurred to me.
Despite your claim of advising "caution in assuming that all programs take the same approach or attitude that the one posting 'Mr. Manipulation' does," it would appear that you, in fact, embrace that philosophy and mindset wholeheartedly! Are you that jaded and filled with cynicism that you advocate throwing common sense and safety considerations out the window in favor of snuffing out the evil maneuvers of wayward youth?
When you said, "I do know from experience that many kids are manipulative and that is how they get their way and get stuff," were you perchance talking about yourself, once upon a time?
--- End quote ---
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Now just let me understand something here while all of you "mother hens" minimize this childs behavior like he just walked out of, "Sainthood Preparatory Divine Academy". Sergey was smoking pot, doing oxy cot, drinking, terrorizing his parents and pretty much doing whatever the hell he wanted to do, per the conversation with his parents. Now did this mean you had to kill him or in anyway abuse him, NO. I just saying lets talk about the right child here, 9403390 is talking about children you have to ask yourself why are they even there then if there so polite and gentile. Children that end up at these facilities are master manipulators and everyone knows that from our own experiences, "this does not mean they should be abused" yet you have to deal with it.
Danny
Anti-Troll:
--- Quote ---Now just let me understand something here while all of you "mother hens" minimize this childs behavior like he just walked out of, "Sainthood Preparatory Divine Academy". Sergey was smoking pot, doing oxy cot, drinking, terrorizing his parents and pretty much doing whatever the hell he wanted to do, per the conversation with his parents. Now did this mean you had to kill him or in anyway abuse him, NO. I just saying lets talk about the right child here, 9403390 is talking about children you have to ask yourself why are they even there then if there so polite and gentile. Children that end up at these facilities are master manipulators and everyone knows that from our own experiences, "this does not mean they should be abused" yet you have to deal with it.
--- End quote ---
Smells Like Staff......
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Anti-Troll" ---
--- Quote ---Now just let me understand something here while all of you "mother hens" minimize this childs behavior like he just walked out of, "Sainthood Preparatory Divine Academy". Sergey was smoking pot, doing oxy cot, drinking, terrorizing his parents and pretty much doing whatever the hell he wanted to do, per the conversation with his parents. Now did this mean you had to kill him or in anyway abuse him, NO. I just saying lets talk about the right child here, 9403390 is talking about children you have to ask yourself why are they even there then if there so polite and gentile. Children that end up at these facilities are master manipulators and everyone knows that from our own experiences, "this does not mean they should be abused" yet you have to deal with it.
--- End quote ---
Smells Like Staff......
--- End quote ---
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for noticing.
Danny
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