Sheriff recommends death be identified a homicide - Sagewalk

[Whooter]

Joel's canoe trips where in Florida during the summer. I've taken the same trips several times, temperatures usually were in the 100s.

I was responding to the canoe trips in Rhode Island. see quote below:

When I worked with EYA we never had this problem in RI during long 20 day canoe trips.

 It usually doesnt get that hot there and sitting in a canoe doesn't burn off as much energy or dehydrate you as much as hiking.  I am sure the trips in Florida were much hotter.



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[Che Gookin]

Yep, much hotter, I remember a kid having to be taken off the river and sent to the hospital due to dehydration. They sent him back to camp after that to wait for his group to return.

[Inculcated]

I could see how you read that.
 

That day, Blashchishen wrote a poem, in which he described the camp scene — “squirrels/running around/blue skies/green bushes and trees/but I’m still hungry.”

I am not sure what you mean by this.  The kid might have been very hungry?.

From linked article:

Calorie count
The students later had a meal of rice and lentils. Though some students were allowed to ask for up to five cups of food, Blashchishen, as a newcomer, was offered just two, according to the affidavit.
DHS regulations for wilderness schools require all students to be offered no less than 3,000 calories of food per day.
Poré wrote that SageWalk staff members could not provide information about what else, if anything, Blashchishen ate before the meal of lentils and rice. He wrote that the boy could have had as few as 400 calories during the day.That day, Blashchishen wrote a poem, in which he described the camp scene — “squirrels/running around/blue skies/green bushes and trees/but I’m still hungry.”

 

Are you suggesting that this contribute to his death?  I believe fluids would have been better for him than food, in my opinion...

Great observation Who, in addition to the proper nourishment and medical care that this boy was deprived of (on that death march) dehydration and heat were also factors in his mistreatment and demise.
Sagewalk also failed Sergey Blashchishen not just with regard to their inability to recognize a life threatening situation as it developed and their failure to respond appropriately. The use of a level system in this Aspen program included limiting the amount of food he received.

[Che Gookin]

Has there been any report of how much water the boy was drinking or if the staff was making him drink water? One thing I know about kids on hikes is you have to monitor their water intake very carefully. Meaning, you have group water drinking sessions where everyone drains down their canteen, refills them, and take a break in the shade for a bit before moving on. Also, the time when you actually hike is important.. as in middle of day or early morning or evening when it is cooler. Any of that information in the article/articles out there about this case?

[Inculcated]

According to this  article the time of the march began at 11:45. Sergey was showing signs of heatstroke by 2pm. By 2:36 he had collapsed.
•   Blashchishen carried his camping gear, food, water and clothing in a pack that weighed between 40 and 50 pounds
•   About an hour later, one of the staff members noticed Blashchishen walking strangely. The group took a break and Blashchishen drank water and consumed electrolytes.
•   As the hike went on, the staff members said Blashchishen fell several times, but pulled himself up and kept walking. Just after 2 p.m., staff members called the school’s field supervisor to report that Blashchishen had vomited, but the hike continued.
•   Less than a half-hour later, about one mile from where the hike had begun, Blashchishen collapsed and lay on his back in the sun. The other students moved to the shade and began preparing lunch.
•   Blashchishen declined the offer of food and shortly after began flailing his arms and yelling in a foreign language, according to the affidavit. Staff members said the boy began to hyperventilate before his breathing slowed and then stopped altogether.

[Whooter]

Great observation who,

Thanks, I feel that too much food can actually contribute to dehydration.

in addition to the proper nourishment and medical care that this boy was deprived of (on that death march) dehydration and heat were also factors in his mistreatment and demise.
Sagewalk also failed Sergey Blashchishen not just with regard to their inability to recognize a life threatening situation as it developed and their failure to respond appropriately. The use of a level system in this Aspen program included limiting the amount of food he received.

I am not sure if the level system contributed directly to his death,  I didn’t see this mentioned.  But I do agree with you that the inability to recognize a life threatening situation was probably key in this boys death.   One question remains in my mind is if proper training would have averted this boys death.  I am sure there must be some type of training that can be brought to these programs that could avert a situation like this.

It would be great If the investigation can determine root cause and help the next set of kids (and staff) to have a safer journey then this boy did.  If it turns out to be better training then great.  Or maybe they just err on the side of caution and have every child treated that exhibits these signs at an earlier stage.  Either way I think that other wilderness programs will benefit from the investigation.



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[Che Gookin]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh...... That's not good. Middle of the day.. showing signs of dehydration.. they made him keep walking.. shit, with a 40 to 50 pound load.

And proper training was in place, at the very minimum they either had Wilderness first responder or Wilderness EMT, both of which cover dehydration, and the protocol for dealing with dehydration.

Neither courses suggest they keep hiking.

[Anne Bonney]

Once again, he defends the indefensible.  How many deaths does Aspen have to cause for you to, JUST ONCE, lay the blame with them???  Fucking shill.


Their first thought is to call program staff, not 911.  Typically program.  Don't involve any 'outsiders' unless you are forced to.  Their intent is to make the hikes as hard as possible on the kids.  The thought process behind it being that it'll "build character".   Same deal with all the confrontation, humiliation etc.  

That C.S. Lewis quote truly applies:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

[Che Gookin]

http://www.suws.com/field_instructor.html

Ehh.. maybe I'm wrong on the WFR and WEMT qualification. I know in the past I've seen it advertised. Can't find a job page for Sagewalk, seems they aren't hiring for some reason. So apparently there are courses out there that turn groups of kids loose with people holding First Aid cards and nothing else.

errrr...  Not sure what I think about that, guess it would come down to the training they are given during their employment orientation. But then, the above link isn't for Sagewalk, couldn't find anything for them as they aren't hiring.

[Oz girl]

It defies logic that they would hike between 11 and 3 during the summer in the first place. This is the hottest part of the day. Are they closed right now? They dont seem to have a website up

[Pile of Dead Kids]

They were forcibly "closed for an investigation" after a kid died, and odds are they won't be reopening any time soon. Oregon's not Utah.

[Oscar]

I hope that some doctor did exam him before he went out there. It could be nice to know if he measured some kind of drug use. In Denmark some girls and boys have been poisoned with GHB in their drinks so they become easier targets. This family of drugs starts a potential dangerous overheating process. It is generally recommended that persons who have taken GHB are carefully monitored for 48-72 hours where they shouldn't do anything else than reading a newspaper or remain in a sofa.

Erica Harvey's mother (Her daughter died at Catherine Freer) did comment this case some months ago. From:

Losing Erica: Cynthia Clark Harvey Doesn't Want Anyone Else's Child to Die in a Wilderness-Therapy Program, By Amy Silverman, Phoenix New Times, November 5, 2009

"I am sick, sad and angry," she wrote. "Sergey's last hours read like a re-enactment of Erica's, up to and including calling the program office before any emergency number, when the kid was, for all intents and purposes, already dead. WTF??"

Her daugther had some drugs from GHB-family in her blood and she cooked to death because the parents information was ignored by the medical staff. What about Blashchishen? Did the medical exam show drugs and did the medical staff react to this?

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

I think it's fair to assume you have no work experience with children on wilderness trips.

Thats a good assumption,Joel, and I would also add that It is also fair to assume that this applies to just about everyone on this forum,Joel.  There are only 2 or three people, here on fornits, that I am aware of that have work experience with wilderness trips.

Behavior issues often result from dehydration, lack of food, lack of sleep, improper restraints, forced tripping (hiking, canoeing etc), inadequate clothing, staff believing he/she is "faking it" and lack of common sense from staff.

This was one of the points.  If behavior issues can result from dehydration (as well as other medical causes) then how can a staff person tell the difference between just bad behavior vs. one that is caused by dehydration?

Staff are often guilty of focusing on what they perceive as "misbehaviors" rather than the root cause behind the child's actions.

If the staff “did” focus on what they perceived as “Misbehaviors” then they were doing their job.  We couldn’t ask anymore from anyone.
This is one of the areas that the authorities are exploring…….Are they guilty because of lack of training?  Were they trained improperly by the school?  Did the staff disregard his/her training? Or is it just too difficult to determine cause when out in the field?  Etc.

@Anne, Can you point out where I was defending the program? We are all looking for answers (including the authorities involved in the case) unlike yourself.  Its curious that you continue to come here to fornits yet you appear to dislike open discussions.



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