Author Topic: Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?  (Read 4754 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2010, 07:48:15 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"

Well I'll ask you “Whooter” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class


I know your qualifications don't come anywhere near close to this. Do YOU have two doctorates and a high military medal? No? Then who are you to question him?

Dr. Josef Mengele !!!
If he were speaking about anthropology or his field of medicine I could not step up and challenge his expertise because I don’t have a background in that area, Pile.  I don’t think you or many of the readers her could either.

If you are referring to how he used his expertise for evil purposes then it shows that evil has no class system (or boundaries) and can occur in complete cross-sections from maintenance people to presidents.  Look at Hitler himself!!  He was no better.  Which relates right back to a former post stating that Horst Köhler isn’t necessarily evil just because he attained the same position as Hitler did.  Each person can utilize their powers however they choose to.  Not all people with a background in anthropology are evil.  Not all program directors, presidents, educational consultants, doctors, teachers, fornits posters etc. are evil.  But we have all seen that some can be.  Every person is different and the job they attain "does not" define them, their actions define their job.

I have been posting and reading here a long time and I think where people get off track here is when they assume that  just because they had a staff person who was evil then it is acceptable to conclude that all staff people are that way.  I see this everyday here on fornits where survivors have a hard time seeing that their personal experience just isn’t the same as the next guy who progressed thru a program.  They may have had better staff people or connected better in their program. But Life just isn’t that simple to assume everyone/everything is the same.  

But on a softer note I do agree with many here and think the reference to Mengele is funny as it relates back to my original analogy of prewar Germany.



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2010, 08:10:23 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"

Well I'll ask you “Whooter” for your qualifications that you use to argue against :
Dr. Josef Mengele
Doctor of Anthropology
Doctor of Medicine
Iron Cross First Class


I know your qualifications don't come anywhere near close to this. Do YOU have two doctorates and a high military medal? No? Then who are you to question him?

Dr. Josef Mengele !!!
If he were speaking about anthropology or his field of medicine I could not step up and challenge his expertise because I don’t have a background in that area, Pile.  I don’t think you or many of the readers her could either.

If you are referring to how he used his expertise for evil purposes then it shows that evil has no class system (or boundaries) and can occur in complete cross-sections from maintenance people to presidents.  Look at Hitler himself!!  He was no better.  Which relates right back to a former post stating that Horst Köhler isn’t necessarily evil just because he attained the same position as Hitler did.  Each person can utilize their powers however they choose to.  Not all people with a background in anthropology are evil.  Not all program directors, presidents, educational consultants, doctors, teachers, fornits posters etc. are evil.  But we have all seen that some can be.  Every person is different and the job they attain "does not" define them, their actions define their job.

I have been posting and reading here a long time and I think where people get off track here is when they assume that  just because they had a staff person who was evil then it is acceptable to conclude that all staff people are that way.  I see this everyday here on fornits where survivors have a hard time seeing that their personal experience just isn’t the same as the next guy who progressed thru a program.  They may have had better staff people or connected better in their program. But Life just isn’t that simple to assume everyone/everything is the same.  

But on a softer note I do agree with many here and think the reference to Mengele is funny as it relates back to my original analogy of prewar Germany.



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It doesn't matter if the staff was evil or good if they aren't qualified to be working with special needs kids then it is the program directors who need to be held responsible for cutting such corners. Cold hard facts here, NONE and I mean NONE of the staff at the school I went to were even closely qualified for the position they filled, not a goddamn one. This is the problem here, you assume we are bitching and moaning about all this because were butt-hurt about a specific event, wrong! We are addressing a multitude of widespread and significant problems within a majority of these programs, one of which is that they do not have appropriate hiring and training standards for the staff they employ.

Whooter, do you ever listen to a word I say? It seems as if, despite your countless years here on fornits that you are incapable of grasping this very specific concept... These programs do not adequately self regulate and this means that methods and polices employed by these programs tend to not only become unethical, dangerous, irresponsible and suspecious but they have too many times lead to corruption, abuse and even death. I know you are a program supporter and this concept is easy to evade due to your loyalties, but just for a second can you consider that all we want is for kids to be safe in programs?... we're not out here whining for sympathy we are calling for the changes that are so direly needed! People like you who are connected to the industry should be glad we are here giving the programs feedback, and if the program directors and NATSAP dooshbags didn't have their heads so far up their asses maybe this information could help them develop a better system... But noooooo were all just liars and exaggerators right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Whooter

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Re: Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2010, 09:15:19 PM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
It doesn't matter if the staff was evil or good if they aren't qualified to be working with special needs kids then it is the program directors who need to be held responsible for cutting such corners. Cold hard facts here, NONE and I mean NONE of the staff at the school I went to were even closely qualified for the position they filled, not a goddamn one. This is the problem here, you assume we are bitching and moaning about all this because were butt-hurt about a specific event, wrong! We are addressing a multitude of widespread and significant problems within a majority of these programs, one of which is that they do not have appropriate hiring and training standards for the staff they employ.

I agree here with you 100%.  Anyone who reads my posts know I would back any bill which would better protect the children from better hiring practices to better screening of children prior to admittance.

Quote
Whooter, do you ever listen to a word I say? It seems as if, despite your countless years here on fornits that you are incapable of grasping this very specific concept... These programs do not adequately self regulate and this means that methods and polices employed by these programs tend to not only become unethical, dangerous, irresponsible and suspecious but they have too many times lead to corruption, abuse and even death. I know you are a program supporter and this concept is easy to evade due to your loyalties, but just for a second can you consider that all we want is for kids to be safe in programs?... we're not out here whining for sympathy we are calling for the changes that are so direly needed!

I advocate here for increased safety for the kids.  Denying children access to the help they need isn’t going to make them any safer (as many here try to do).  We need to identify the problems and address them not try to paint a false picture and deceive parents by saying that all programs are the same or no children are helped by the industry.  We all know this isn’t true.


Quote
People like you who are connected to the industry should be glad we are here giving the programs feedback, and if the program directors and NATSAP dooshbags didn't have their heads so far up their asses maybe this information could help them develop a better system... But noooooo were all just liars and exaggerators right?

First of all, I know people believe I am connected to the industry, but I am not.  But lets move on from that:

The information is great and that is what everyone needs.  Lets get the word out!!  Lets pass new laws that will make these places safer!!  But lets just be honest about it.  We should not call people who had a different experience “Brain washed” or try to convince readers that every program is abusive or ineffective.  It just smacks of ignorance, I know you must know this whether you want to admit it or not.  Any first time reader knows this.  We all know that thousands of kids graduate from programs every year and a small handful get hurt.  Lets try to reduce that to zero.  I am all for that.  But lets just be honest about our intentions.

Are posters here really concerned about getting these kids the help they need or are they more concerned about getting even with the program that didn’t treat them well and just bad mouth the industry?  

Read here on fornits and determine for yourself how many posters are willing to work towards change and improvement.  How many are for taking steps that will add value and keep the children safe, like I do?  How many survivors here on fornits are here to just dump their hatred and push their personal story and agenda?

The only ones really willing to help these kids are the program parents.  They draft up and introduce bills and speak to the GAO and try to get policies changed.  But they are not trying to block access to other children getting help like many fornits posters do thru deception.  Why is that?



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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Rusty Goat

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Re: Was Your Child the Victim of Abuse at Camp?
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2010, 12:06:26 AM »
One sense I get is that the government has been supporting these programs for so long and since it says there's abuse, well by golly, now the lawyers have a credible source and more business than they can shake a stick at. No wonder they support HR911!!!  :bs:  Like a battlefield of sorts, put down a land mine, someone will step on it. HEY, THAT KID JUST GOT HURT/KILLED!!! SUE SUE SUE!!! $$$$$$$$$$$... yeah, they can thank us for that, but they never will.  :twofinger:  those lawyer types using the Fed pool!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »