JASON FINLINSON-CASA

[Anonymous]

Yeah, they had great control over whether they accidentally looked out the window ("run plans"), looked at a member of the opposite sex, felt uncomfortable kneeling for hours at a time on a rough surface bare-kneed and then moved and got restrained for doing it even though no one can stand that for as long as they were supposed to do, had control over being told they weren't "honest" if they didn't admit to being in denial about drugs they actually didn't take...

You think you would have done better if you complied in that person's situation-- and yes, there's *less* punishment if you try to do so-- but what you don't get is that they make it so that perfect compliance is impossible-- to "get you out of your comfort zone."

This means that they set impossible standards and you are going to be punished and humiliated no matter how you respond to them, some less so, some more.  The most ethical kids will experience the most punishment as they will be least inclined to inflict humiliating punishment on others "for their own good" and thus will be defined as non-compliant and "advance" less slowly in their anti-empathy lessons.

Some people may get stronger through such an experience-- but some people get stronger through natural disasters, concentration camps and deaths of loved ones-- but we don't recommend crashing planes into the WTC to  provide growth experiences for New Yorkers. [Btw, if you create your own reality as WWASP claims, did the people on those planes who weren't terrorists have as much responsibility as those who were?]

How could a grandmother's concern about her daughter--where she's not holding her hostage, not
forcing her to not look out the window, etc. etc.-- possibly come anywhere near the kind of control that WWASP had?

you really are deluded.

[Anonymous]

If the standards are so impossible, how do so many kids graduate. What you are saying is to make us think of kids bruised, battered and torn. Which they're not.  They have rules.  Rules that have a purpose and consequences that the kids KNOW about, but choose to break the rules anyway and then blame someone else for what happened.  Tough life...following rules, huh?  Maybe if they believed and listened to their parents, they wouldn't be in a program to begin with.

[Anonymous]

How accountable is that statement?  Accidentially...looked out a window or at the boys?  It's called self control, and if they didn't have it, then they get to listen to tapes instead of doing other things.   :rofl:

[Anonymous]

How deluded are you to think that freedom implies no limits... you sound just like Mr. Vargas before he started the riots at Dundee. He thought that the kids would respect him when he illegally told them they could do ANYTING... that some how in Costa Rica unlawful acts like sodomy, vandalism, and assault with clubs on the staff and other students was some how covered in the signing of some international treaty on Childs rights...He and the police and social workers, the very people charged by the law to protect the students stood by and watched as all the acts named above were performed in the name of freedom...Then they the adults Pani, Vargas and the police got in their cars and drove away as the fiasco worsened and didn?t turn out the way they thought it would for the press...as students were walking down the road to be kidnapped raped abused or whatever in a strange country?? Its so hypocritical to sit and talk about abuse that never happened and not address the real abuse by the Costa Rican officials trying to get their name in the World press at the expense of the safety of the 200 students and the 90 staff members whose lives and reputations have been slandered by people like those on this forum repeating gossip and slander that they really don?t know or understand. But then again the truth rarely sells newspapers as well as the false allegations do...and everyone is an expert with everyone else?s kid and situation...its sort of like the situation NOW and other women?s groups found themselves in when they failed to come out and condemn Clinton while he was abusing the office of the presidency, because he sang their song and had their world view.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-16 18:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If the standards are so impossible, how do so many kids graduate. What you are saying is to make us think of kids bruised, battered and torn. Which they're not.  They have rules.  Rules that have a purpose and consequences that the kids KNOW about, but choose to break the rules anyway and then blame someone else for what happened.  Tough life...following rules, huh?  Maybe if they believed and listened to their parents, they wouldn't be in a program to begin with."

Program parents are destined for a very lonely aging experience.

Don't say you weren't warned.

[Anonymous]

here is my response to those who believe that rights or freedom means that kids should be able to do anything they want and the parents should have to stand by and pick up the pieces...The International treaty on children?s rights in section five states the following

 Article 5

States Parties shall respect the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents or, where applicable, the members of the
Extended family or community as provided for by local custom, legal guardians or other persons legally responsible for the child, to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving
Capacities of the child, appropriate direction and guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the present Convention.

Simply put this means that the Parents or guardians rights of how to educate and what kind of boarding school the child attends is to be respected and recognized...otherwise a true Owellian dictatorship of a state not the family will dictate the values the child learns one could argue that this is already the case and the family is being destroyed by real intended but misguided people in Governments all over the world...no one has a better feeling for the needs of the child then the parents who are naturally, bond by blood and genetics and affection.

The children at Dundee where not held against their will but were enrolled by the parents whose rights as recognized by the treaty had every right to place them in Dundee...If you follow the argument just advanced in that the children were held against their will then how can government have compulsorily education wherein if the child refuses to go to school both the child and the parent go to jail AGAINST THEIR WILL...Again this is Political Correctness run amok if you place your child in a prestigious boarding school on the east coast he or she cant get up and walk out onto the street and the dangers there in with out the parents release and the schools release this is identical to what existed at Dundee.  The children were placed in the boarding school in some cases in lieu of Juvenile prison...Dundee never put a gun to these parents heads to sign their contract and do placement.... The parents exercised there rights in behalf of their wayward children according to National and international rights...DUNDEE WAS THE AGENT OF THE PARENTS by signed and notarized legal contract and thus acting to any reasonable interpretation of the placement of children in a boarding school environment...If children were ever stopped from leaving it was out of concerns for their own safety and at anytime the parent requested them to leave they did?. the policy was very clear and followed religiously. Again well intended Beliefs or interpretation of law by advocates of child rights do not determine the law the law determines itself with its intent and the law on parental rights for minor children in this case is clear and well defined by past judicial presedent.

[Anonymous]

How do you know that abuse never happened?  You think you know that because you have been told that by other parents who desperately want to believe that, by WWASP officials who have a financial interest in believing that and by some Costa Rican officials who are embarrassed by their failure to act earlier.

You discount any information that doesn't coincide with what you already want to believe-- if kids complain, they are manipulative liars, if employees complain and describe the same abuses that the kids did, they are disgruntled, even when everyone is telling the same stories.

Even the kids who say they benefitted from Dundee describe punishments and abuse that wouldn't be tolerated in the U.S.-- they simply justify it by saying that it "wasn't that bad" or "I needed it."

You cannot have a safe program with no oversight where kids complaints cannot be heard and are all dismissed as "lying" or "manipulation."  We learned this with the mental hospitals, we learned this with the criminal justice system, we learned that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So why do you still want to turn your kids over to people who have no accountability to anyone?  

Even if everyone now at WWASP is a paragon of virtue, they don't screen their employees with criminal background checks and might, given the attraction of pedophiles to juvenile institutions, hire one.  Then, your child is getting sexually abused and even if he or she tells you about it, you aren't going to believe it.  Is this really what you want?

How can you not see that the set up makes this not only possible, but inevitable, even if WWASP is now totally perfect?

[Anonymous]

Where did you get the information that the employees aren't screened?   There you go, trying to make something up that has absolutely no basis of truth.  How does a parent know their kid is not being abused?  With the staff, outside professionals and parents on the campuses every day and night, tell me why they would ALL turn a blind eye?   You don't know fear until you've seen your child overdosed from drugs and feel helpless.  Once they are clean, they need a results based program to stay clean and learn to have other passions besides self-destruction.

[Anonymous]

i personally say my son bruised when i picked him up.  torn, yes, mentally torn.

[Anonymous]

how bout this waspie, i have photos of those bruises too.

[Anonymous]

sorry, i meant i personally SAW him

[Anonymous]

when persons limited use of the bathroom causes them to shit their pants in front of their "family", what of those limits, waspie?

[Anonymous]

quote
"its sort of like the situation NOW and other women?s groups found themselves in when they failed to come out and condemn Clinton while he was abusing the office of the presidency, because he sang their song and had their world view."

no, i think its sorta like the civil rights movement, when black PEOPLE (yes, people, and teens are people too, human beings if you will)
living in the deep south, when their loved ones were abused, murdered, b/c of the culture and beliefs of people of that generation/culture found that behavior acceptable (if you need education on that, try mississipp burning with gene hackman or perhaps, a pbs documentary, does the name emit till right a bell?)
ok.  so when reporters and law enforcement and people asked the black folks, what happened, what they saw, or their version of the story, NONE of them said anything.  b/c of the Consequences.  BUT THEN THE BLACK PEOPLE SAID NO MORE!  
your analogy is flawed, you think clinton was the first president to practice infidelity?  PULEEEZZZ!

[Anonymous]

my guess is that name emitt till does not ring a bell with you.  my guess is that you are clueless

[Deborah]

****The children were placed in the boarding school in some cases in lieu of Juvenile prison...Dundee never put a gun to these parents heads to sign their contract and do placement....***

Which of you anon's is an official spokesperson for the program? Another one of you, or perhaps it was YOU said that W didn't accept "really bad" teens. Which is it? And are you qualified to answer the questions that are being posed?

***The parents exercised there rights in behalf of their wayward children according to National and international rights...DUNDEE WAS THE AGENT OF THE PARENTS by signed and notarized legal contract and thus acting to any reasonable interpretation of the placement of children in a boarding school environment...***

Teen BM Warehouse Facilities are not traditional boarding schools. The only thing they have in common is that teens reside in both. Don't even try to draw a comparision. It is deceptive and inaccurate for you to refer to them as schools, much less boarding schools.