JASON FINLINSON-CASA

[Anonymous]

Again like so much of what is said on this form is pure bull there is no "confirmed" abuse at Dundee ranch and the Restrictions on Mr. Lichfield are now off and the prosecutor has publicly stated he shouldn?t be restricted that there is no evidence of him and abuse, and the owners closed the facility and send the kids home at great cost because they feared for the kids safety as they attacked one another after and during the riots that was started by the fiscal. Its all well documented and the judge who was the legal authority during the crisis is renouncing the fiscal for his abuse of power. Amberly Knight has confirmed over and over again in her conflicting testimony that she witnessed no abuse and she lived on campus night and day. This is just hearsay and gossip being legitimized in its retelling

[Anonymous]

Would the person who witnessed Jason beat kids at Casa please e-mail me at [email protected]

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-13 18:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Again like so much of what is said on this form is pure bull there is no "confirmed" abuse at Dundee ranch and the Restrictions on Mr. Lichfield are now off and the prosecutor has publicly stated he shouldn?t be restricted that there is no evidence of him and abuse, and the owners closed the facility and send the kids home at great cost because they feared for the kids safety as they attacked one another after and during the riots that was started by the fiscal. Its all well documented and the judge who was the legal authority during the crisis is renouncing the fiscal for his abuse of power. Amberly Knight has confirmed over and over again in her conflicting testimony that she witnessed no abuse and she lived on campus night and day. This is just hearsay and gossip being legitimized in its retelling"

The way this whole freedom of speech/freedom of thought thing is that when there's a he said/she said situation you get to decide what you believe and the rest of us get to decide what we believe.

Passive voice is a dead giveaway for weakness in an argument.  "is no confirmed"  Yeah, right.  Confirmed by who?  By what criteria?  Who decides?

*You* get to decide what *you* believe.  And that's *all* you get to decide.

*I* don't find your verbal hand-waving at all convincing.

[Anonymous]

A lot of folks in the world DO believe negative stories.  It plays on fear, it keeps us in the "what if" stories and keeps us stuck, afraid to take a risk, even if it means giving our child a chance at living a clean and sober life. Even if it means learning to be a better parent.

So, ask yourselves.  "WHAT IF I don't take that chance, what will that look like?  Do I think it will be better or worse if I 'try' to do it myself without any help?"  

Our kids just LOVE to make us think the world will end if they go to a PROGRAM.  Wonder whywe believe them, wonder why the "fear" works so well?

[teachback]

If you're talking about Casa by the Sea, be afraid! Be very afraid!  :skull:

[Deborah]

Our kids just LOVE to make us think the world will end if they go to a PROGRAM. Wonder whywe believe them, wonder why the "fear" works so well?*****

What IF, what you are identifying as "fear" is not really fear at all, but a subconscious knowing that a program is not in your child's best interest, sparked by your child's words? Which is in conflict with your desperate need to believe you have done the right thing? Or could your "fear" be caused by the absolute uncertainty that constantly plagues you because you really DON"T KNOW what is being said or done to your child while they are in the hands of strangers, and you HOPE it is congruent with what they have told you and the image you have concocted in your mind? You really need to feel you had no other option, that the negative reports are lies, that your kid is manipulating you...in order to satiate your guilt.

I would like to make some kind of comment about reality coming around and biting you on the ass, but the truth is, some people die as ignorant as they arrived. You might well be one.

I couldn't help notice your choice of words and that it seems most program parents can't use I statements and speak only for themselves.
"Our kids" just love to..... "Wonder why we".....

Why not, "My kid just loved to make me think that the world would end if s/he went to a program. I don't know why I believed her/him."

Less guilt when you commiserate with other like parents? Take responsibility for yourself and your experience. It's not appropriate to project your shit onto others by speaking generally for all parents, and/or suggest that what they are feeling about negative reports is unfounded "fear". You sound like a PR person for the program. A cheerleader. Here to strengthen the brainwashing in case someone is starting to come to their senses. And definitely not the sort of parent I would seek advice from OR collaborate with about what is in my child's best interest.

It's obvious that program parents live in fear  :scared: of everything, hence the drive to warehouse their teen, and consequently blame their fear on the teen. Who's fear :scared:  is it, really? If you had NO FEAR you would not react to your child or negative reports about your warehouse of choice... and further you wouldn't be pounding out a generic defensive message as the one you posted. Who are you trying to sway, or were you trying to strike up a conversation with another parent who has the same illogical thinking dominated and influenced by their fear :scared: ?

[Anonymous]

It's called "letting go." Some people don't need to know every little detail of what's going on.  What they do need to know is that their child is indeed in a safe place, not running the streets and doing anything their immature mind and hearts desires to find artificial highs, like drugs and sex, that provide short term gratification and long term pain.

If a "gut" feeling about a program is listened to, then by all means find out if it real or imagined.

As for the "desperate need" comment.  Sometimes desperation is the driving force to do something instead of nothing if all else has failed.

[Anonymous]

Dundee Ranch was a great program creating an environment for growth and change for its kids in its care. The owners out of safety concerns shut it down for the kids in their care in response to the riots created by the well intended but naive government of Costa Rica. The ?Temp? fiscal Mr. Vargas, (who wasn?t even a full official just a temp who covered for the full fiscals while on vacations) in a shameless grandstand for the gathered media was only driven by ambition and power. He possibly saw in the false allegations and the media attention the hope of a newfound political career and chance to become fully vested as a Fiscal. Who wouldn?t want to be seen by the world as ?saving kids? it?s as old as politicians kissing babies. Mr. Vargas in his illegal actions was told to stop and leave by the judge who is now suing him in Costa Rica. She was the true legal authority in the situation after Nicole deniken affirmed before her no abuse existed, after being harassed by Mr. Vargas for 2 hours to influence her testimony. What happened next created the only situation, we who worked there for 2 years knew of abuse to the kids and others who were the Dundee family?Vargas entered the scene only after the NY times had published a slanderous one-sided article on casa by the sea. The allegations by Ms Flowers had already been rejected by the supreme court of Costa Rica of having no evidence or merit the allegations had then been taken to the full time regular fiscal by casa alilanza. Casa alilanza is an advocacy group that makes its money out of the amount of publicity it creates with allegations for its causes some of which have great merit. But in this case they were poorly researched ?Mr. Harris or anyone else at casa alilanza for that manner, has publicly stated he has never been to Dundee. But simply relied on the allegations of Ms flowers just published to get more attention and therefore more money for his causes. Mr. Harris has recently been unsuccessfully sued in other countries for his outspoken approach which approach is fine if it?s the truth? Ms flowers is a person who had lost her parental rights to her daughter by her own actions and choices in a legal court of law in the United States. She came down to get the relationship back with her daughter at any cost including making up allegations of abuse. The local full-time ?Real? Fiscal reviewed the allegations and saw they were simply e-mail and hearsay from people of dubious motivations and character and shelved the information. Then 2 months later went on vacation and thus entered Mr. Vargas and the firestorm that has followed. False allegations of abuse are the most salacious situation that anyone can be in?in an environment wherein some kids see them as a ticket out of the program?. Allot of these kids have a long history of not telling the truth that is why they are there in many cases. These kids truly understand the social welfare systems that are set up rightfully for their protection and how to abuse or manipulate it dishonestly through a false allegation?Such allegations are sort of like running into a crowded room and yelling "Fire" it really doesn?t matter if there is a fire or not the media and others who make a living off of such gossip will automatically act as if there was and then you really do have a true case of "abuse" or "Fire" But not to kids or person who made the allegation but to the owners and employees who have literally put there livelihoods, reputations, and lives all on the line to try to help the kids in question. Again real people with real families and over 90 employees lost there jobs and reputations over these false allegations and are now being abused over and over again on forums such as this ?If you want truth here it is the only abuse we were aware of at Dundee was what has happened since the actions by Mr. Vargas and others

[Anonymous]

What on earth do you mean by "fiscal"?

Vargas is a prosecutor.  He *was* on temporary assignment-- which meant he wasn't already in the pay of WWASP like those who received political donations from them.

Fiscal typically refers to financial matters.   How can you expect people to buy your nonsense when you can't even write in English?

[Anonymous]

Obviously you are as uninformed about the Spanish legal system as you are the facts in this case and your remarks show your bias. Your fiscal and finances are the terms in English. But the prosecutor or the person representing the judicial system for the government in the canton or towns of Costa Rica is called the "fiscal" and the office is called the "fiscally" please refer to any Spanish dictionary if you are still confused.    See http://www.oceano.com   oceanio grupo editorial edicion 2000

[Antigen]

On 2004-02-14 10:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

Who wouldn?t want to be seen by the world as ?saving kids? it?s as old as politicians kissing babies.

Indeed!

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C.S. Lewis.

P.S. Lest anyone misunderstand, I'm refering to the author of the above fairy tale, justifying all of the criticizm of WWASP and, by extension, the entire TOUGHLOVE hategroup as mere manipulation on the part of hated, scapegoated teenagers. I just find it ironic as hell that some ppl can state outright, asif they really understand the concept, of justifying torment in the name of rescue when refering to others but can't see it in themselves.

I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2004-02-16 07:02 ]

[Anonymous]

Obviously you were never at Dundee and are relying on 2nd hand accounts that meet your own belief that the kids are abused and as much as I like Cary and her seeing amberly lied. Cary never slept and ate there and knew for a fact what when on at Dundee. She was there just long enough to claim to just talk to the twins then had them thrown into the car by her escorts and leave. All she has is a 2nd hand account from her sons who have a vested interest in telling her it was a terrible place... In fact the twins themselves admit they weren?t abused and claim their knowledge is 2nd hand.  Its just like the person who claimed we had no validity because of their ignorance to the term fiscal and it meaning in Spanish...Just because you choose to believe that it is a certain way doesn?t make it so and ultimately truth is independent to you or my beliefs that?s why its the truth it isn?t influenced by opinions and it is the same always and not relative to the environment.... Again it is one thing to believe the accounts of others that fit your own worldview and get excited about abuse that never happened ? but it is another to have experienced it first hand having lived slept and drank daily for 2 years.

[Carey]

To the Anon who says they spent two years there..are you a child or are you a staff member? Not that it means anything either way, I am just curious.  I just want to know from what point of view you are coming from.

[spots]

On 2004-02-16 09:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

In fact the twins themselves admit they weren?t abused ...

I think there is a lot that 16 or 17 year olds would not consider abuse that we, as a society, *do* consider abuse.  Carey's boys say they were not abused, but do they mean they weren't hog-tied and thrown into solitary or up against the nearest wall (as many many other kids testify, in frighteningly-similar detail)? Do they consider it OK that they were separated from the outside world, effectively separated from their family by censored mail, held captive for months and months of silence, an abnormal condition of humans [let alone teens] that society considers excessive and abusive (unless you're a nun and do so willingly!). Do they consider it OK to be subjected to a constant and changing variety of right-thing/wrong-thing, with threats of punishment as the driving force in their life?  Do they think it is OK to serve an endless sentence, trying every day to find whatever it is that will get them a reprieve, even if it is spouting seminar babble that they don't fully understand and don't believe?  Do they think it is OK to be locked in Worksheets for days, weeks, months, listening to nearly-ancient self-help tapes without relevance and writing psychobabble that is not read but simply "word-counted" by nearly illiterate Jamaicans, while their own schooling is set by the wayside during this punishment period?  I think Carey's boys don't really understand the meaning of abuse.

Let's not shape our objections on the word and thoughts of two young kids who haven't been exposed to an adult world long enough to really understand what is commonly accepted as humane treatment.

[Anonymous]

Spots - you seem to think these kids had no control over being in worksheets or how long they were there, etc., etc.,  They did and once you stop being a rescuing grandma, the sooner your grandaughter can take accountability for what she chose to create for herself.  She wasn't abused, but you've fed her your poison, like so many others, that you really think you're doing her a favor by turning her against her own mother.  Is that the way you raised her mom?  To not think for herself unless it was in line with what you said was okay? I see your control is more abusive than anything I've heard.