Straight Staff - silent too long

[DannyB II]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30038&start=15
I can only speak for myself.
I have no problem understanding how people became staff.
From where I was sitting (The Corner) it just looked like the next level up on the dichotomy.
I honestly believe that most of the staff really think they are helping these kids, just like they were helped.
There is a girl who was in the program with me, really kind girl.
She is a Director now, has been for years.
She even sent HER KIDS to Elan.
I would love to pick her brain for sure.
I don't think I would be hostile to her, because she and I were nice to each other.(rare in my lowly position)
However if one of the people who made my life hell while I was there suddenly popped up, I would be quite confrontational to say the least. Still, I can't deny that I watched this whole brainwashing thing happen to many.
I am sure there are people out there who are upset about the way I treated them while they guarded and restrained me.
We all did what we had to do to survive that hellhole.
Many did not.
The real problem that I have is that some people just will not stop playing games and it really makes them look like they are still on the payroll, punchdrunk, or both.
The Q & A is a good idea
 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Nice points....guilty of a few.
Danny

[Whooter]

Joel. Your post just disappeared.  I don’t think you will get many people arguing with you and taking the position that restraints are never needed.  The danger of utilizing restraints is the lack of training not the restraints themselves.



...

[Inculcated]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Nice points....guilty of a few.
Danny

Hey Bennison was honesty one of the Philosophies at Élan?

Joe Ricci hated AA, I mean hated, you could not even mentioned the name. Nothing about Elan or the Daytop I was in even resembled AA. Ask anyone about that in the time frame I was there. I didn't even know AA existed until 1988.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014

[Whooter]

Joel. Your post just disappeared.  I don’t think you will get many people arguing with you and taking the position that restraints are never needed.  The danger of utilizing restraints is the lack of training not the restraints themselves.



...

Whooty you have been slinking around Fornits looking for a bitch slap.
I'll restrain your ass and see how you like it.
I have lots of experience :jawdrop:

My point to Joel was that I don’t think anyone would argue that restraints are unnecessary in all cases.  They are designed and utilized for a reason.  If you had a chance to read the results of the GAO investigation you will see that they are looking to provide more training to the public school system so that they come more in line with the Hospitals with the use of restraints.  No one (including the GAO) is arguing they are unnecessary.  We wouldn’t want to put these kids at risk by pulling the plug on a system designed to protect them.  I understand, Eliscu2, that many here don’t understand the reason restraints were designed and why they are used and see them only has a tool to harm people, but that is just misinformation.  Here are the results of the investigation:

GOA Investigation Results

The problem with restraints are the people who are using them.  If we can get them the proper training then we can eliminate the odds of kids getting hurt, which we can all agree is the ultimate goal.

The key is education not misinformation.

Your response was very telling in that your knee jerk reaction was to suggest utilizing restraints on someone (myself) who you disagree with.  The GAO’s suggestions are designed to target people like yourself who don’t understand the reason restraints are used.  They should not be used out of anger like you feel they should be.



...

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Nice points....guilty of a few.
Danny

Hey Bennison was honesty one of the Philosophies at Élan?

Joe Ricci hated AA, I mean hated, you could not even mentioned the name. Nothing about Elan or the Daytop I was in even resembled AA. Ask anyone about that in the time frame I was there. I didn't even know AA existed until 1988.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014[/quote

Duh....Kimmy I got nothing sorry. Yeah sounds crazy uh....Duh...still got nothing.
Danny

[Whooter]

Whooty, you make some pretty big assumptions there.
I have read the entire G.A.O. report
Don't try to PSYCHOanylize me.

Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally. -Abraham Lincoln

That's all, :beat:  I thought you might like to get some real life experience on the subject matter.

If you understood the reason restraints were designed you would know that it is not a tool that should be used out of anger as you seem to think.  There are probably very few, if any, on the GAO panel who personally experienced being restrained, but that doesn’t diminish their conclusion on the subject.

Think of it as a way to protect a person from themselves or others not as a device to be used to demonstrate a power position.  Lincoln wanted to educate people and open their eyes to the backward use of slavery as a means to expand their family businesses and abolish it.  There isn’t anyone or any federal agency , that I am aware of, who wants to eliminate the use of restraints.  They are designed to help people.  If I were trying to harm myself or my family I would hope that someone would have the sense to restrain me and I am sure you would wish the same if you were hurting yourself.  I dont think experiencing it ahead of time,like you suggest, would change anyones opinion including your own.



...




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[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[DannyB II]

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Nice points....guilty of a few.
Danny

Hey Bennison was honesty one of the Philosophies at Élan?

Joe Ricci hated AA, I mean hated, you could not even mentioned the name. Nothing about Elan or the Daytop I was in even resembled AA. Ask anyone about that in the time frame I was there. I didn't even know AA existed until 1988.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014

I think You meant this post right here: http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014#p357958

I am confused here....He knew Joe Ricci hated AA in the early 70's, but never heard of it until 1988? hmmmmmmmmm

:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Jeesh, you two are at it again Kimmy and Felice, let me see. I did not even know what he meant concerning AA just knew it was something out there. I was to busy drinking my ass off.
It was Disco Time....drinking, coking and dancing, if you could dance. So AA was the furthest from my mind and even if I knew about it I would have rejected it also. Did not fit into my plans then.
Man you two busted me again, gosh I am such a liar. I think I'll go smoke a ....no can't do that.
I'm tired I'll just go to bed. nite nite.
 :shamrock:
Danny

[DannyB II]

I worked at Eckerd for three years.  There are abusive acts committed by staff and children.  Anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.  We can all agree staff commit more abusive acts than children.  I witnessed a 6'1, 16 year old, 300 lb. boy, hit another child in the face with a broom.  The victim was no more than 150 lbs.  His face began to bleed.  Was this a justifiable reason for a restraint?  Yes, it was.  I did not restrain the aggressor because I would have done something I regretted.  The aggressor was the same child who popped open a camping knife blade during another restraint.  I made a split second decision to bend his wrist and remove it.  He did not enjoy it neither did I.  There were no injured parties.  I will not lie if you ask me, "Did you perform restraints that were not justified?"  There are very few restraints, form my experience, done correctly in a wilderness setting.  People don't take into account the child's size, strength, speed and athletic ability.  There was a case where I restrained a child for throwing a black kerosene kettle.   This guy was one hell of a wrestler and he ended up face down in the dirt.  There was another case where I planted a child on his rear and everyone heard  a loud thud.  To make a long story short he bit me in the restraint, I bled and had to stop the restraint.  I would have done the same thing if I were him.  There were young kids at Eckerd.  We had to use a basket hold restraint with them.  I actually had to kneel down on my knees due to my strength and size.  They would bang their head 20 times against my chest and they got a good laugh out of it.   They cried which was depressing to say the least.  I would also like to discuss the management issues in another segment.

Joel I know this took a lot. Thanks for your courage.

[Inculcated]

... gosh I am such a liar. I think I'll go smoke a ....no can't do that.
I'm tired I'll just go to bed. nite nite.
 :shamrock:
Danny

Thank you for conceding that. They say the first step is admitting it.
I appreciate this thread as it an opportunity for honest discussion about program staff and their experiences.
I won’t bother to ask who the hell “Kimmy” is, as I’m not as interested in more of your disjointed inconsistent ramblings as I am the substantive contributions.

[wdtony]

I worked at Eckerd for three years.  There are abusive acts committed by staff and children.  Anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.  We can all agree staff commit more abusive acts than children.  I witnessed a 6'1, 16 year old, 300 lb. boy, hit another child in the face with a broom.  The victim was no more than 150 lbs.  His face began to bleed.  Was this a justifiable reason for a restraint?  Yes, it was.  I did not restrain the aggressor because I would have done something I regretted.  The aggressor was the same child who popped open a camping knife blade during another restraint.  I made a split second decision to bend his wrist and remove it.  He did not enjoy it neither did I.  There were no injured parties.  I will not lie if you ask me, "Did you perform restraints that were not justified?"  There are very few restraints, form my experience, done correctly in a wilderness setting.  People don't take into account the child's size, strength, speed and athletic ability.  There was a case where I restrained a child for throwing a black kerosene kettle.   This guy was one hell of a wrestler and he ended up face down in the dirt.  There was another case where I planted a child on his rear and everyone heard  a loud thud.  To make a long story short he bit me in the restraint, I bled and had to stop the restraint.  I would have done the same thing if I were him.  There were young kids at Eckerd.  We had to use a basket hold restraint with them.  I actually had to kneel down on my knees due to my strength and size.  They would bang their head 20 times against my chest and they got a good laugh out of it.   They cried which was depressing to say the least.  I would also like to discuss the management issues in another segment.

If you don't mind me asking, were you restrained at the program you were sent to as a youth? And do you think there was an element of brainwashing in that program?  ...Just curious.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[wdtony]

If you don't mind me asking, were you restrained at the program you were sent to as a youth?  

CEDU RMA did not do restraints when I was there.

And do you think there was an element of brainwashing in that program?   Just curious.

I will get back to you later on because this question will take time to answer.

Ok, thanks. I was curious because at KHK restraint was so commonplace that it became a second-nature and over time we became desensitized to it. I didn't know RMA was a CEDU program.

And anything concerning brainwashing is complicated so I get that. I asked because some people say their program didn't brainwash "per se'" while others say there was definitely brainwashing happening.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[seamus]

The only encounters I had with ex staff were ugly I ran into amazon amy wright once in venice while she was on staff at L.I.F.E. I threatened her with great bodily harm . Where I used to cop dilaudid was on the same street she lived on,so I made sure folks knew what was what. I ran into flamey ol dave searcy,in sarasota and told him he was a fuckin joke and kept rollin. see i figured that they were fucked in the head,and as I was doin a laundry list of bad shit myself at the time It wasnt really worth the effort.Besides ,what control ,what power did they have outside the walls of the monkey farm anyhow? None,they were in my world now,and in those days I pretty much went heels every where I went. so fuck em,what were they gonna do? start me over? put me in the green room? put

me on away from home? what? they had nothin.

The fucks that I hated there were: Ross,Peterman(what a pompous ol biatch) doug hemminger,liz cassady,That goddamn amy wright. Dave searcy was a joke,I never could take him seriously,good ol vergie boy,pseudo father cassian miller newton. and  I really disliked the toadly wanda minton.


Dave Crock never did me no wrong,John Legg was ok by me,so was marnie sykes. Criss Cassler was a retard. I saw him at an Al Di Meola concert once, musta blew his mind cause I was with this drop dead gorgeous red head,and sober too.Had life by the ass.