are there any success stories? (repost from cache)

[Ursus]

Partial repost of material still available from Google's cache from the thread

are there any success stories?[/list]

This is a Copy and Paste. For practical considerations, 5 original posts have been consolidated into 1 repost; for ease in keeping track, posts have been numbered.

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#1 Post by Guest  » Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:03 pm

the son of a friend of mine graduated elan. there really was no choice it would have been that or jail. when i saw him on home visits i saw a more respectful, calmer individual then he was before.
he seemed happier and at peace. was that angry boy i remember gone for good? i thought that elan was probably this kids salvation. after graduating
elan i was surprised to see that he was enrolled in a university back east. i thought that after such a structured environment that maybe there should be some halfway house or something. i was just worried that going form such a policed enviroment and set free into the real world might be a little overwhelming. he lasted one semester.
during that time, he racked up enormous phone bills, credit card bills etc. he also acquired his taste for drugs once again and failed what classes he bothered to show up for. needless to say he returned home for a very short time before the lies and stealing and disrespect left him homeless. he hasn't held a job since leaving school 2 yrs ago. was he just faking it at elan or was the real world just to tempting for somone that may not have been ready to embrace it. his parents have been through hell not to mention a lot of money to try to get him on the right track. i don't know the answers but i do know that somehow i feel really sorry for the kid. a lot of people would say i'm crazy that he doesn't deserve any sympathy. its true,he's has more chance to straighten out than most but i still wonder what went wrong or didn't go right. i would appreciate any thoughts on this.


the lies were back the stealing etc.

#2 Post by Guest  » Sun Apr 13, 2003 8:55 pm

Lots of success stories. It sounds to me like he was a college age student going wild for a bit. That happens to people who didn't go to Elan School also at that age sometimes.

#3 Post by Guest  » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:53 pm

i was only there for 7 months. i signed out. they told me i'd be dead or jail within a year. i left and got my high school diploma through home instruction and now i'm about to finish my first year of college. it doesn't matter whether you graduated from there after three years or signed out after a little while. you either want to change or you don't. i did. i didn't get than expeditor which is only the third position. it helped me because i knew i wanted a better life. i needed to be there for those seven months to give me a break from my life and the things i was doing.

#4 Post by Guest  » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:34 am

i'm glad to hear that things worked out for some of you. i guess you just have to WANT to change. i just can't imagine this young man wanting this nowhere lifestyle he has chosen. he has such resentment towards his parents for sending him to elan. he says they ruined his life. he says he went in a 15 yr old and came out a 15 yr old. he temds to hang out with kids younger then him. the only thing i know is that he blames his mother for EVERYTHING that didn't go right in his life. he is downright abusive towards her. i don't know, do you think there is any hope for him. share your thoughts.

#5 Post by Guest  » Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:34 pm

Everyone who went to elan is going to be fucked up forever. That place is nuts and brainwashes you. Then you have to heal, and even after you still dream in Elan, and have flashbacks of the abuse, ELAN FUCKING SUCKS! I FUCKING HATE IT! I WISH EVERYONE FROM ELAN WAS DEAD! I WANT TO RIP CLARE WOODMANS NAPPY HAIR OUT OF HER FUCKING GREASY SCALP AND CHOKE HER WITH IT! MARC ROSENBURG IS A NASTY JUNKIE FUCKER WITH A HORRIBLE EGO PROBLEM AND PETE ROWE FUCKS HIS STUDENTS! YEAH PARENTS SEND YOUR KIDS TO ELAN! ITS A GREAT PLACE!!! AHHHHHHHHH! MURDER DEATH HATE!!!!! AHHHHHH! KILL MARTY KRUGLIC!!!! TANYA SHOULD DIE SHE IS SO HIDEOUS! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[Ursus]

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#6 Post by Guest  » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:31 pm

Hi everyone that reads this. i am sure there are success stories from elan but not everyone must graduate in order to be successful. Those of you that are doing well since graduation should thank yourself not elan. While elan may have enforced policies, it was you who decided whether to change or not. I was there for only 9 months. i signed out becasue i knew i could handle my shit in the real world on my own. Now the staff wont respond to me and they wont let my friends write to me. correct me if i'm wrong but they encourage us to make some of the best and most supportive friends of our lives but if we chose to steer differently than the "Elan path" we lose all contact and support from the people in that school who actually did stand by us and not just call us damaged goods or some shit like that. ANyways i am happy for all the success stories but i think you only have one person to thank for your success....YOURSELF! I would love to hear from you guys that went to school with me that have left or graduated. Feel free to email me and tell me whats going on. HAs anyone heard from Jeanette? Although the laugh was annoying....she was cool peeps and i would love to hear how she's doing. take care email me [email protected] :silly:

#7 Post by iAMtheSPELLBREAKER  » Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:25 am

i am very thankful to have experienced Elan. i only speak 4 myself and dont claim that my experience was the norm.
i'm not sure how much of a success story i am in society's view. it has been around 11 years since Elan and i am just about to finally finish college. but on the other hand, i have traveled throughout the US and some of Mexico, stayed out of jail, been to drum circles in most of our national forests, have witnessed paranormal phenomena at least a few times, lots of protests standing up 4 whats right, loved many beautiful women ...and the list goes on as to the unique experiences i have had. this doesnt fit the plasticene image society has of success, but i feel very lucky.
on a side note concerning the person dissing Marc Rosenburg, i would like to be the one to stand out and say that he had a very positive influence on my life. his cut-through-the-bullshit style i think was the piercing point of my prefabbed reactions i had arranged for every possible experience i could have ever had. Let he with no ego cast the first stone.
i have been to the vista of no-ego, and there are no throwing stones there!
i bow to your freedom to have an alternative view to mine, but demand that others who may read this thread know that yours is not the only view out there of some1 you slander.

#8 Post by Eliscu2  » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:44 am

Well? Has Elan spawned a Manchurian candidate yet?

#9 Post by Danny Bennison » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:50 pm

Yes there are, but how do we determine success. I'll say one thing if I may you can't do it thru the lense of resentment. I'll never be successfull, a victim finds very little happiness, joy or freedom in life. I have to say one more thing too, my life prior to coming to Elan was not going very well my parents were screwed up and they just didn't have the tools to parent me. To long a story for now, my point is we have to take a step back at some instant and look in the mirror and realize we are the problem right now. Because if I can't accept I am the problem where do I find solutions. Meaning if my life has been one of being victimized in my perception I have to fix it. I have a story a friend of mine told me one day; he said his mother told him she realized she put a lot of scars on his heart and that she was profoundly sorry for this and all the experiences he went through because of this. She was talking about the experiences loneliness, not fitting in, not being able to get along, immature for your age,emotionally and mentally inept things she felt she instilled in him. Here was her last experience she left for him; she said son yes I put these scars there and God only knows I would love to remove them but I can't humanly impossible (try it to remove a scar you gave someone you can't), But there is one who can your God, Please ask him to help you to forgive me. There it is forgiveness, sounds mushy, stupid, no f@#$*#@ way we say. Well I was saying that before I got to Elan and after I left Elan. It took me another 11yrs after I graduated 1/77 till 11/88 to clean up, sober up,stop fucking up,smarten up, grow up and find something more powerful than me to help me with my big fat ego before it totally ate me up. People find a spirit larger than you and humble yourself. That's what I do today. Peace of mind you don't know how valuable it is until you lost it. Lets move on find solutions and be humane that's what are fellow Elan family would want from us to be of service. Peace and Love Danny

#10 Post by Eliscu2  » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:03 am

Yes there are, but how do we determine success. I'll say one thing if I may you can't do it thru the lense of resentment. I'll never be successfull, a victim finds very little happiness, joy or freedom in life. I have to say one more thing too, my life prior to coming to Elan was not going very well my parents were screwed up and they just didn't have the tools to parent me. To long a story for now, my point is we have to take a step back at some instant and look in the mirror and realize we are the problem right now. Because if I can't accept I am the problem where do I find solutions. Meaning if my life has been one of being victimized in my perception I have to fix it. I have a story a friend of mine told me one day; he said his mother told him she realized she put a lot of scars on his heart and that she was profoundly sorry for this and all the experiences he went through because of this. She was talking about the experiences loneliness, not fitting in, not being able to get along, immature for your age,emotionally and mentally inept things she felt she instilled in him. Here was her last experience she left for him; she said son yes I put these scars there and God only knows I would love to remove them but I can't humanly impossible (try it to remove a scar you gave someone you can't), But there is one who can your God, Please ask him to help you to forgive me. There it is forgiveness, sounds mushy, stupid, no f@#$*#@ way we say. Well I was saying that before I got to Elan and after I left Elan. It took me another 11yrs after I graduated 1/77 till 11/88 to clean up, sober up,stop fucking up,smarten up, grow up and find something more powerful than me to help me with my big fat ego before it totally ate me up. People find a spirit larger than you and humble yourself. That's what I do today. Peace of mind you don't know how valuable it is until you lost it. Lets move on find solutions and be humane that's what are fellow Elan family would want from us to be of service. Peace and Love Danny

Thanks Ken, have some kool-aid on me! :cheers:

[Ursus]

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#11 Post by wimbelton  » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:53 am

Anyone who believes that Elan has contributed to their 'success' is either:

(1) A victim of the Stockholm Syndrome- you are experiencing a normal reaction to a long-term hostage situation, this is quite normal for victims of corrupt institutions, especially children. I am sorry that you have yet to understand this fact. You should seek a licensed therapist.

(2) Brainwashed- I am sorry that you are brainwashed, this is quite normal for a recent Elan graduate, it may take between 2-5 years or more to get on with life, I suggest living life to the fullest, making mistakes to learn from, and realizing that NOTHING was ever wrong with you that deserved Elan as a punishment. It is quite common for certain young people to stray away from society's norms. For those of us who needed to get away from certain negative influences, there were completely normal boarding schools for that. Places where you would get a great education while at the same time not being abused.

(3) An idiot- Unfortunately, a lot of ex-students who openly support Elan fall into this category. They are complete losers who look at Elan as a time where they were 'cool' and/or had some kind of sense (illusion) of power. Furthermore, they consider themselves as falling into the category of 'successful' though they are total fuck-ups who have no friends or prospects. They have never really gotten over Elan because they never really moved on with their lives. They held onto the false illusion of power for so long that they lost complete touch with reality, never realizing that Elan turned them into a complete tool.

#12 Post by Danny Bennison » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:05 pm

I would really like to know how old this person is (Wimbelton). Because you have alot of wisdom for someone who used to be a ex addict and/or alcohol abuser, if you were not afflicted with these problems please don't talk for me. I went to Elan for specifically for this malady. Back in 75 most of the residents were older and were drug addicts, alcoholics and criminals. There was no Sharon Terry, School Master ect...... One drug addict helping another or making it up. We didn't have all this drama yet between staff members. There was no real school or whatever and most of the residents were 16 and up to 35 so we didn't have to go to school. The rich kids started coming from Chicago, Detroit and elsewhere and mommy and daaddy wanted to see some school for there $30,000.00. So walaa here is your school that's when Elan started going down when we stopped being what we were a drug treatment program. Marty,Joe,Jeff, Marc, Peter were all ex-junkies some went on to college some allready had college but the bottom line is they fucked up for the money. That is the shame for us. How do I know all this I am a ex- employee also and I knew all those guys personally. I left elan b/cuz the philosphy changed we were no longer helping the addict and Alcoholic. Danny 6/75 till 11/78 Joe & Peter have died. Friends w/ Jeff, Marty and Marc from 75 till present. One addict helping another, they are sick no doubt I do not condone their behavior but I will not stop trying to help them see what they are doing. One Elan resident trying to excerize his right to speak w/o judgement we all have a kinship with each other lets express it please. Love and Peace Danny ( My name is ( Daniel Lee Bennison) not koolaid drinking Ken) Thank you

#13 Post by Ursus  » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:30 am

I would really like to know how old this person is (Wimbelton). Because you have alot of wisdom for someone who used to be a ex addict and/or alcohol abuser, if you were not afflicted with these problems please don't talk for me. I went to Elan for specifically for this malady. Back in 75 most of the residents were older and were drug addicts, alcoholics and criminals. There was no Sharon Terry, School Master ect...... One drug addict helping another or making it up. We didn't have all this drama yet between staff members. There was no real school or whatever and most of the residents were 16 and up to 35 so we didn't have to go to school. The rich kids started coming from Chicago, Detroit and elsewhere and mommy and daaddy wanted to see some school for there $30,000.00. So walaa here is your school that's when Elan started going down when we stopped being what we were a drug treatment program. Marty,Joe,Jeff, Marc, Peter were all ex-junkies some went on to college some allready had college but the bottom line is they fucked up for the money. That is the shame for us. How do I know all this I am a ex- employee also and I knew all those guys personally. I left elan b/cuz the philosphy changed we were no longer helping the addict and Alcoholic. Danny 6/75 till 11/78 Joe & Peter have died. Friends w/ Jeff, Marty and Marc from 75 till present. One addict helping another, they are sick no doubt I do not condone their behavior but I will not stop trying to help them see what they are doing. One Elan resident trying to excerize his right to speak w/o judgement we all have a kinship with each other lets express it please. Love and Peace Danny ( My name is ( Daniel Lee Bennison) not koolaid drinking Ken) Thank you

Interesting piece of history there, Danny. I appreciate your sharing it.

It sounds like you really support the idea of a therapeutic community helping an addict "see the light" for his own good, regardless of whether the "cure" is worse than the disease. It's been my observation, in general, that this evangelical zeal for curing folk sometimes also ropes in "patients" who did not need such drastic measures, sometimes folk who wouldn't even be classified as "patients" by any responsible, professional standards.

Tell me, did you ever hear of an alcoholic by the name of Joe Gauld during your time at Elan?

Some old times at Elan mentioned in THIS thread, in case you're interested...

#14 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:37 pm

Hey Danny again Ursula that site was interesting, the abusive behavior towards residents from staff really became widespread in early 75 and continued. We had a population in 75 - 76 of 350 to 400 with "no per" say professional staff just a bunch of junkies and alcoholics with new found clean time. Trying to act as professionals with a shitload of character flaws that we hadn't yet seen manifest in our lives out in society. There was no after care Joe hated NA and AA always talked negstive about so what did you have to help you, the ignorance was rampant. If you chose to work for Elan after graduation or in my case before for free, you still had no aftercare and were humilated and threaten w/ termination for simple life mistakes. I had a difficult time living in society always had still do at times Elan didn't have a clue as to how to help in that department. No Joe saw the money and got lazy, I sat in those meeting W/ Alan Frey, Louie Ginsberg, Mike Fink, Michele Kelman,Larry Smaller, (young) Marc Rosenberg, (young) Alice Dunn begging Joe, Marty, Peter and Jeff to help with after care, stop taken in residents who did not necessarily have a drug problem, Shit we couldn't deal with what we had never mind someone we could not even relate to. But NO!! the money, houses and fancy cars was to tempting. No shit every fucking addicts dream w/ a huge EGO. Please everyone never ever forget JOE and everyone else was a Junkie First that never really got treated so whatever age they started there drug use in earnest that is probably how old they are emotionally. "My opinon of course here". I am so sad to here the stories I've heard all over on different sites some folks have been hurt deeply and nothing I we say here will change that but PLEASE..PLEASE...PLEASE lets not fight with one another or at least I won't. I.m looking for solutions to help and move folks lives forward. Love Danny

#15 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:23 pm

Ursus, I came to this site looking for some insight and you have definitely gave me some I appreciate that. Now if we can move on from the problem for one second and think about this question; "what do we do after we have shut down all the elan's in this country and what do we do we the children". Whether we like it or not children are addicted, our alcoholic and are inclinded to commite crimes. Now we all know Synanon and the birth of its children programs don't work, so what can do and where do we put these children. See I've heard about Elan, I know it doesn't work it never was supposed to, Joe never had/has any integrity or moral compass he wanted to make money and he did. We got that!!!! It is really disgustingly that simple. Marty, Jeff, Sharon and the rest of Elans staff that bought into Joes Marshall Plan really didn't have a genuine sincere aim for their Program. It is not based on a sincere hope to help educate these chilren with the most modern effective methods. There is no R & D department out there scanning to see better opportunities for these kids. If you check into there personal backgrounds you will find broken relationships and many have never had any children. Very...Very difficult to work in the "Child Business" with very little personal experience to guide you. It is a key requirement I would think as part of your overall package. I don't have any "ZEAL" to do anything in regards to treatment programs. One addict helping another is a miracle if you do not know this then you weren't a Alcoholic/Addict of my type and that is ok. I have been clean and sober for 21yrs. That I share for my own reasons but I believe to a certain degree it qualifies me to get a seat at the table also I am qualified because I spent from 6/71 till 1/77 incarcerated in one form or another. In drug treatment programs Daytop 71, Marathon house 73 and Elan 75 in between in and out of Y.C.C. in Cranston R.I. So I understand full well what everyone here is talking about and I am willing to be a student. But I won't just sit around and talk about the problem with no end in site, we also have to talk about the solution. To end here in 1971 I was twelve years old. Thanks Love and Peace Danny

[Ursus]

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#16 Post by Inculcated  » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:47 pm

Hi Danny Bennison,
I was startled to see how many of these programs you were in. I’m happy you’ve found a happiness and stability away from your addiction (21 years-nice) and very sincerely sorry that you had to endure so much to get there.

What are the reasons that you were in three of these very similar, but separate programs? In addtion to Elan, I am very curious to know what your recollections of Daytop and Marathon House were like. Which facilities were you in?

#17 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:17 pm

Inculated, This name does not help me to want to open up and explain anything. If you want to give me your full name I will get more intimate with my personal history. It would also help if you could share your own experiences that relates to what I shared earlier if you can't identify with me in life history I would very much appreciate you not asking me questions so direct. Not trying to be snotty just setting the table that's all. My full name is Daniel Lee Bennison email ([email protected]). Why because I can. Thanks Love and Peace Danny

Laughs. Yeah, I’m sure the name would give someone pause.

One Elan resident trying to excerize his right to speak w/o judgement we all have a kinship with each other lets express it please. Love and Peace Danny ( My name is ( Daniel Lee Bennison)

I had interpreted this from a previous post of yours coupled with that you mentioned having been in Daytop as an openness to discuss either program. My interest was piqued about your experiences of early Daytop, due to the fact that I had been in Daytop. If you’re not interested in being asked such direct questions you should probably abstain from offering blanket advice to others …

People find a spirit larger than you and humble yourself. That's what I do today. Peace of mind you don't know how valuable it is until you lost it. Lets move on find solutions and be humane that's what are fellow Elan family would want from us to be of service. Peace and Love Danny

A statement like that conveys baseless assumptions about the reader before you’ve even finished typing it out . Did you make a lot of similar statements directed at anyone within earshot when you “worked at” Elan? How did that work for you?

It took me another 11yrs after I graduated 1/77 till 11/88 to clean up, sober up

Since you’ve said you didn’t get clean until years following your time there, would that mean you were using while working at Elan or otherwise?

Inculated, This name does not help me to want to open up and explain anything. If you want to give me your full name I will get more intimate with my personal history. It would also help if you could share your own experiences that relates to what I shared earlier if you can't identify with me in life history I would very much appreciate you not asking me questions so direct. Not trying to be snotty just setting the table that's all. My full name is Daniel Lee Bennison email ([email protected]). Why because I can. Thanks Love and Peace Danny

No, I will not be giving you my full name. “Why because I can” and the like…I’m not interested in hearing any more of. I can understand very much why you would appreciate not being asked for specifics. Those are a little harder to come up with than slogans and No, I will not be communicating with you off Forum. There’s no need for it.
:seg2: Carry on[/quote]
#19 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:24 pm

Man you really enjoy yourself , I bet you were just waiting for someone new to show up so you could do exactly what you did. LOL Dude/ Dudess relax your still in charge I concede the high ground, I'm here in a peaceful spirit. This type of verbal boxing doesn't excite me anymore, I don't know what riled you up but obviously you chose not to take advice. Stop being in charge for awhile let your guard down reveal yourself and I'm sure we could have a decent conversation otherwise stay incognito and we can still talk but give up the intensity. No problems here dude I'm just a easy going guy. You pulled bits of my stories like I was in front of a congressional hearing ready to be voted in to something. We are normal folks writing I don't even remember what I ate this morning and don't care. I write from my heart and I didn't believe I was hurting anyone. But that doesn't give anyone the right to give unsolicited critic (maybe w/o the intensity). I love making freinds how about you. Love and Peace Danny P.S. (thought you had me uh!!) LOL

#20 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:31 pm

The statement "why because I can" is a phrase used between my freinds, concerning giving out ones name and email. So many folks don't like to do that. I can, so I do. Man I forgot just how sensitive we addicts are (including me). Danny

[Ursus]

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#21 Post by Danny Bennison » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:43 pm

OH yes, you detective work paid I did get high while working at Elan, smoked 2 jionts but what really happened was I kicked off a career of alcoholism. Man I drank like no tomarrow with no concern for anything. That is what Alcoholics do there selfish. Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it but by the "grace of God". Thanks Buddy

#22 Post by Inculcated  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:04 am

(thought you had me uh!!)

Not interested in having you, nor any parry and thrust with you. My brief interest in any possibility of you actually having insights into the early days of Marathon House, Daytop or Elan to share has waned. In eight short posts I’ve seen enough of your judgements and jargon to know there’s not much more that I would find substantive.
… peace and doves and what have you.

#23 Post by Ursus  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:09 am

...I spent from 6/71 till 1/77 incarcerated in one form or another. In drug treatment programs Daytop 71, Marathon house 73 and Elan 75 in between in and out of Y.C.C. in Cranston R.I. So I understand full well what everyone here is talking about and I am willing to be a student. But I won't just sit around and talk about the problem with no end in site, we also have to talk about the solution. To end here in 1971 I was twelve years old.

That's some pretty heavy "dues" there, Danny. The thought occurs to me that all that time spent at the mercy of being "fixed" by proselytizing do-gooders, let alone at the tender age that ya got pulled into that mess, might very result in creating an "addiction" to, or need for, being in that kind of structured environment. I mean... what else did you know? Do you think that might have had something to do with why you ended up having a drinking problem while you were on staff at Elan?

Forgive me if I've misread something in your just previous posts. I'm just catching up on today's material.

#24 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:16 am

Hey if treating people like you do works for you great, I would really like to meet your alter Ego probably a nice person but I'm sure he can't be revealed b/cuz "inculate" likes to dominate with his anger. I hope you find peace maybe the next time you ask such questions you'll give a formal intro first it is only polite. Thanks for our brief encounter Danny

#25 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:36 am

Ursula, Thanks for commenting I was dickering with someone who calls themselves "inculate". Well now w/o going into a long story yes I'm sure that had some to do w/ it . The other part is the addictive side of my personality whether I was incarcerated or not I had this. I remember in even younger years my obsessive/ compulsive behavior. Alcohole was just waiting for me. Now for my years of treatment centers I will tell you in a sort of sick twisted parable ironic way they kept me alive long enough long enough to learn why a conscious was important. Man my sense of indifference towards folks and society was bordering on weird.

[Ursus]

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#26 Post by wimbelton  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:07 am

I was surely more of a drug-addict than you, that I know for a fact. Before Elan especially, but definitely post-Elan as well. Yet, I do not understand what that has to do with my statement.

You clearly fall into category 3 for one main reason: you went back to Elan to work as a staff member.

You obviously have a twisted mind. Who could experience Elan and then voluntarily go back to work as a staff member. You never got over that shit huh? You never shook Elan off of your back. You never stepped back and actually looked at what happened, did you?

Then you went back to work as a staff member? You are either a greedy bastard, sick in the head, or are driven by some insane belief that you can 'help' people using the same skills that Elan taught you.

Elan played you fool.

Elan filled your head with bullshit in order to keep collecting $$$.

You agree with people being in Elan now? In 2009? You think the program changed just because you were there 'back in the day'? It is no different now. Only now, they are praying on younger and more vulnerable children.

Get a clue.

#27 Post by Ursus  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:21 am

The other part is the addictive side of my personality whether I was incarcerated or not I had this. I remember in even younger years my obsessive/ compulsive behavior. Alcohole was just waiting for me.

Obsessive/compulsive in a younger person often stems from a need to control, or impose a meaningful order on one's universe. Usually 'cuz one doesn't have it, control or meaningful order, that is. It's a coping mechanism.

I'd say that putting such a kid in an overly controlled environment, where the shots are called by someone else, not to mention being held responsible in a punitive and degrading fashion, doesn't do much but aggravate the original problem. Especially if there is no decompress afterward, and the kid goes straight back into the "real world" with no genuine support system.

Twelve years old is far too young to have an physical addiction to alcohol. Barring phenomenally unusual genetics, I just can't see it as physiologically possible. Psychological reasons may tell a different story, of course.

...I spent from 6/71 till 1/77 incarcerated in one form or another. In drug treatment programs Daytop 71, Marathon house 73 and Elan 75 in between in and out of Y.C.C. in Cranston R.I.

I just find this roster of programs quite ... compelling. All of these programs are based on pretty harsh versions of a therapeutic community modality. For those who may not know, what was originally known as Marathon House, Inc., later came to be known as Phoenix House New England. From their website:

Welcome to Phoenix House New England

Phoenix Houses of New England – originally called Marathon House – was founded in 1967 by a coalition of social service professionals, clergy, business, and political leaders in Providence, Rhode Island. Today, some 1000 adults and teenagers receive treatment each day through 45 programs in Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont and Connecticut. In addition to the residential and outpatient programs outlined below, Phoenix Houses of New England provides an array of services to specific populations including the homeless, persons involved with the criminal justice system and those charged with driving under the influence.[/list]

#28 Post by Ursus  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:33 am

...I was dickering with someone who calls themselves "inculate".

Btw, it's "Ursus," not that I much care... But the poster you were "dickering with" calls themselves "Inculcated" -- which means something f-a-r far different from what you've been calling them! Your misnomer might well be contributing to some of the... er... frostiness being (consequently) expressed...

#29 Post by Inculcated  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:45 am

Btw, it's "Ursus," not that I much care... But the poster you were "dickering with" calls themselves "Inculcated" -- which means something f-a-r far different from what you've been calling them! Your misnomer might well be contributing to some of the... er... frostiness being (consequently) expressed...

LMAO, no the paronomasia is not at issue for me.Sesquipedalian tergiversation can be fun. The equivocal statements and lectures are what tuned me out.

#30 Post by Eliscu2  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:45 am

Hey Danny; you sound pretty BRAINWASHED.
This is not the "Love Connection" here.
This is the Elan Forum of Fornits.
Freedom of Speech for one and all.
If you want to talk about the "Good Elan", Go over to Ken Zaretsky's site.
He has plenty of delusions that I know you will find interesting.
Like I said, freedom of speech.
If someone tears you a new asshole don't be shocked.
I'd offer you some Kool-Aid, but it looks like you have had way too much to drink already!

[Ursus]

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#31 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:35 am

Eliscu2 first anger...anger...anger every site I've seen you on you hiss. You can't rip me b/cuz I won't let you. I don't buy your act because it appears just angry. So please bring it but show me you really care for something other than yourself and how you feel. Talk about koolaid that 2000 phrase that Bill O' Riley likes to say com'on. Give me something.

#32 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:44 am

Wimbelton, READ I did not go back to Elan to work I worked there following my graduation. I got there in 6/75 graduated in 1/77 and worked for them until 11/78. Now for the matter of comparing self-destruction sorry could care less. I have recovered from a seemlessly hopeless state of mind brother don't care to go back. Stop getting angry.

#33 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:02 am

Ursus, once again thanks for your info can't deny you show your homework. As for children who are Alcoholics well I am not going to argue this because I walk with them everyday. Everybody has a theory I support all if it helps the one who suffers. "Frosty", well I do believe (Inculcate) was far from thawed before I came into that life. LOL

#34 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:20 am

Hey Inculcated, Happy to see your intellectual humor is back using these big words on me.(LOL) Ya know I live in the south and we all use Ya'll and Hee Haw down here so your waisting it on me. I am a simple man with very basic principles and values. So I am very sorry if I trampled upon you in a very repetitive way my new freind. I have been living here in Georgia for the last 15yrs and one gift they did give me here was a spirituality, I 've never had. Of course I had to buy into this but it has become a big part of my life. I don't mean going to church on sundays, what I believe I have cultivated is within my soul. So where am I going with this I don't know just wanted to say it. Sounded nice. Peace and Love Brother Danny

#35 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:32 am

Ursus, you seem to have a agenda which I am not afraid of at all. I welcome the conversation and the opportunity to be a student or the other. I just wish you would give more info about yourself and exactly what it is your doing. Thanks Danny

[Ursus]

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#36 Post by Eliscu2  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:07 pm

Eliscu2 first anger...anger...anger every site I've seen you on you hiss. You can't rip me b/cuz I won't let you. I don't buy your act because it appears just angry. So please bring it but show me you really care for something other than yourself and how you feel. Talk about koolaid that 2000 phrase that Bill O' Riley likes to say com'on. Give me something.

Gee Danny, I did not realize I sound so angry.
Thanks for making me aware of the way you percieve me.
"Seeing ourselves in the eyes of others; shall demand change."
Funny Danny; no one remembers you!
I asked several people who were there at that time and they do not remember you.
A few people even suggested that you are Douglas Davis.
I really don't care who you are.
Just because you think Elan was great, does not mean the rest of us do.
I personally care because I feel compelled after the abuse I witnessed.
It bothers me to this day that there a still minds being twisted up there in Maine.
There has been much work done to close this place by people who can not just walk away and leave others to be abused.
We call it PASSION; not anger.
Bill O'Reilly did not coin the phrase "Drinking the Kool-Aid"
It's a cult thing; like Jim Jones.
Figures you would watch FOX news........................IDIOT!
If you want to know me, go google my name.
I am not hiding.


I would tell you to go to HELL, but I work there and I do not want to see you every day. :rasta:

#37 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:57 pm

Eliscu2, man you are something what the hell happened to you in your life that you have to be so angry. There is a passion about you no doubt but you have to admit there is rage there also. Now , the only reason I choose to continue this w/ you is because you came out of Elan. Now for the last time woman my name is Daniel Lee Bennison at elan from 6/7- 1/77 resident , Employee 1/77 - 11/78, Graduated 1/77. Now it is no surprise that you can"t find alot of people from that time that know me. First I was 16yrs old when I got there (34yrs ago), second I didn't stand out ( no ring, GM's, signs or anything) I just breezed through and stayed on everybodies good side (that was my (M.O.) back then). For this I got to probably do alot of things that other people didn't. Some names from Chicago mostly from E-5 Tricia McCarty,Sue Goodman, Sean O'hara. NOW PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS-------I AM NOT STANDING UP FOR JOE, MARTY,SHARON,MARC,JEFF G. OR ANYBODY ELSE. I don't even know right now who Ken, Doug or who the hell your talking about. You have got me all confused with everybody else your batteling with. I am not against what you stand (I hope I understand) for I applaud it but I may have another way of going about it. A more personal direct way. Listen all these folks your talking about were young back then, all of us were young Marty was 23, Peter 25, ect... so we were inticed by Elan (no excuses) just reality... some left, some stayed. I will tell you this everyone I know that worked there when we were young (most of us were 17 - 18 or early 20's) carry a heavy heart for our participation in the insane practices being used there. So please don't go flying down the road thinking you have me figured out "PLEASE". I would like to start over and see if we can Idenify are common interests, if not so be it. In my 50yrs of living I have learned that first impressions suck. Luv ya Danny P.S. meet me half way girl!!!!!!

#38 Post by Eliscu2  » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Eliscu2, man you are something what the hell happened to you in your life that you have to be so angry. There is a passion about you no doubt but you have to admit there is rage there also. Now , the only reason I choose to continue this w/ you is because you came out of Elan. Now for the last time woman my name is Daniel Lee Bennison at elan from 6/7- 1/77 resident , Employee 1/77 - 11/78, Graduated 1/77. Now it is no surprise that you can"t find alot of people from that time that know me. First I was 16yrs old when I got there (34yrs ago), second I didn't stand out ( no ring, GM's, signs or anything) I just breezed through and stayed on everybodies good side (that was my (M.O.) back then). For this I got to probably do alot of things that other people didn't. Some names from Chicago mostly from E-5 Tricia McCarty,Sue Goodman, Sean O'hara. NOW PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS-------I AM NOT STANDING UP FOR JOE, MARTY,SHARON,MARC,JEFF G. OR ANYBODY ELSE. I don't even know right now who Ken, Doug or who the hell your talking about. You have got me all confused with everybody else your batteling with. I am not against what you stand (I hope I understand) for I applaud it but I may have another way of going about it. A more personal direct way. Listen all these folks your talking about were young back then, all of us were young Marty was 23, Peter 25, ect... so we were inticed by Elan (no excuses) just reality... some left, some stayed. I will tell you this everyone I know that worked there when we were young (most of us were 17 - 18 or early 20's) carry a heavy heart for our participation in the insane practices being used there. So please don't go flying down the road thinking you have me figured out "PLEASE". I would like to start over and see if we can Idenify are common interests, if not so be it. In my 50yrs of living I have learned that first impressions suck. Luv ya Danny P.S. meet me half way girl!!!!!!

half way
http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/mental-he ... iscu/truth

http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/mental-he ... ce-eliscu/

http://cafety.youthrights.org/wiki/inde ... ice_Eliscu

:beat:

#39 Post by Danny Bennison » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:46 pm

My time there was from 6/75 till 1/77 as resident and 1/77 till 11/78 as staff. This did not show up properly on my last post. Well Felice your story is extremely compelling and my heart sincerely goes out to you and your children. We all have our story " We the folks from Elan" and there usually not happy ones. Just to share a little my mom and dad in the world today would have been in prison for the abuses they commited on their children. That is the world alot of us came out of so I figured shut up (at elan) and surrender, and possibley they won't kill you. The physical abuse I had at home and the Juvie centers taught me, elan was just the same and I just didn't feel like getting beat up anymore. So I shrank to the smallest size I could emotionally, mentally and spiritually to keep away from the tornado (Joe, Marty, Peter and Jeff). Man it took me years to figure this shit out w/ a lot of help from the professional Doctors, but I will say this when I finally started praying in earnest with a sincere heart miracles started to happen. I am not a BIBLE THUMPER, I just said what do I have to lose. The god I have today is "my understanding" not anyone elses. Now I'm a pretty big guy 6' 1" about 230lbs. now, back then 16yrs.old 5' 11" 185-190 not a small guy but as you know it doesn't matter once you give over your spirit, heart and soul you feel like your dead. I don't care about fighting anymore I want to find solutions it is OK in my book for other folks not to agree w/ me so long as we can achieve our main goal helping each other and the one who still suffers. Thank You Felice you seem to be beautiful women and also for meeting me "halfway". I will pray for your daughters and you to reunite. Love and Peace Danny

#40 Post by Eliscu2  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:35 pm

My time there was from 6/75 till 1/77 as resident and 1/77 till 11/78 as staff. This did not show up properly on my last post. Well Felice your story is extremely compelling and my heart sincerely goes out to you and your children. We all have our story " We the folks from Elan" and there usually not happy ones. Just to share a little my mom and dad in the world today would have been in prison for the abuses they commited on their children. That is the world alot of us came out of so I figured shut up (at elan) and surrender, and possibley they won't kill you. The physical abuse I had at home and the Juvie centers taught me, elan was just the same and I just didn't feel like getting beat up anymore. So I shrank to the smallest size I could emotionally, mentally and spiritually to keep away from the tornado (Joe, Marty, Peter and Jeff). Man it took me years to figure this shit out w/ a lot of help from the professional Doctors, but I will say this when I finally started praying in earnest with a sincere heart miracles started to happen. I am not a BIBLE THUMPER, I just said what do I have to lose. The god I have today is "my understanding" not anyone elses. Now I'm a pretty big guy 6' 1" about 230lbs. now, back then 16yrs.old 5' 11" 185-190 not a small guy but as you know it doesn't matter once you give over your spirit, heart and soul you feel like your dead. I don't care about fighting anymore I want to find solutions it is OK in my book for other folks not to agree w/ me so long as we can achieve our main goal helping each other and the one who still suffers. Thank You Felice you seem to be beautiful women and also for meeting me "halfway". I will pray for your daughters and you to reunite. Love and Peace Danny

I finally found someone who knows you he said:

he was one of the worst abusers. He took pleasure in it.
He tied Mary Jones to the back of a car and dragged her around the grounds. He was the one who drilled holes in the paddle for spankings to draw blood.

WTF Danny you are FUCKED UP to even come around here spewing your "peace garbage"

[Ursus]

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#41 Post by Danny Bennison » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:23 pm

I am done with you, I'll pray for you for sure. Take Care Felice I hope you can find peace in your heart and mind but most your soul. Love Danny

#42 Post by Joel  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:41 pm

Danny,

Why did you work at a school you attended where children were abused?

#43 Post by Danny Bennison » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:56 pm

Joel,
Hey there are several sites that I have shared on I have a lot of info out there for you to read about me I have tried to be forth coming in my personal story. Joel I got to Elan One as a resident in the summer of 1975, June. I was 16 yrs. old and had been drinking and shooting dope for about a year. I entered Elan and was there for appro. 18 mons. I graduated in January of 1977. I was 17 years old and I started working for Elan for $50.00 a week. Peter McCann (thru Joe) would pay me cash b/cuz of my age. Need I say more I was caught up in the Elan hoopla. I left in November Of 1978 very drunk and angry. Long time ago my freind.

#44 Post by Danny Bennison » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:37 pm

The other part is the addictive side of my personality whether I was incarcerated or not I had this. I remember in even younger years my obsessive/ compulsive behavior. Alcohole was just waiting for me.

Obsessive/compulsive in a younger person often stems from a need to control, or impose a meaningful order on one's universe. Usually 'cuz one doesn't have it, control or meaningful order, that is. It's a coping mechanism.

I'd say that putting such a kid in an overly controlled environment, where the shots are called by someone else, not to mention being held responsible in a punitive and degrading fashion, doesn't do much but aggravate the original problem. Especially if there is no decompress afterward, and the kid goes straight back into the "real world" with no genuine support system.

Twelve years old is far too young to have an physical addiction to alcohol. Barring phenomenally unusual genetics, I just can't see it as physiologically possible. Psychological reasons may tell a different story, of course.

...I spent from 6/71 till 1/77 incarcerated in one form or another. In drug treatment programs Daytop 71, Marathon house 73 and Elan 75 in between in and out of Y.C.C. in Cranston R.I.

I just find this roster of programs quite ... compelling. All of these programs are based on pretty harsh versions of a therapeutic community modality. For those who may not know, what was originally known as Marathon House, Inc., later came to be known as Phoenix House New England. From their website:

Welcome to Phoenix House New England

Phoenix Houses of New England – originally called Marathon House – was founded in 1967 by a coalition of social service professionals, clergy, business, and political leaders in Providence, Rhode Island. Today, some 1000 adults and teenagers receive treatment each day through 45 programs in Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont and Connecticut. In addition to the residential and outpatient programs outlined below, Phoenix Houses of New England provides an array of services to specific populations including the homeless, persons involved with the criminal justice system and those charged with driving under the influence.[/list]

Going back a few weeks ago to this conversation you are right w/ the assessment you came with,it is right on target w/ having to control or having to have meaningful order. The household I grew up in lacked these mechanisms outrageously and the degrading and abusive practices didn't happen at treatment to me as much as I saw with others. To be honest they happened at home before, during, and afterwards, being at Elan and these other centers was almost like a reward. Just my parents didn't know. Now if this isn't sick on so many levels what is. Alot to be untangled.

#45 Post by Danny Bennison » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:34 am

So back to the orginal question, "are there any success stories" yes there are. Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a success...... success for me happened over a period of time and now is a regular experience
of mine. My mind, body and spirit are being fed on a daily routine, there is not the humilation, debasing, undermining cruelity and total dominance crushing the three essentials I named above. So I can fly now.
My heart becomes very heavy when I think of the children being treated today, the adults being kept in ignorance. So as always we move on (as w/ this site ), try to bring awareness to this abusive behavior. Love and Peace Danny
Awareness that is success !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anne Bonney]

Wow.  This thread explains quite a bit.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

I can't for the life of me forgive elan and its henchmen for the stuff that went down. I can forgive the folks that had to do the bidding of elan and its henchmen. They were just following orders, and if the didn't they would be on the recieving end.

Felice is right if you love elan go to zaretski site , it aint no love connection thing here.

Granted I have connected with former residents. Some don't want to talk about elan , and I respect that , most however feel like myself , that the hell hole should be shutdown and those henchmen be put in prison for the rest of their natural lives.

I consider myself a success, not because of elan.  If I had believed the crap elan put in my head ,I would have been dead a long time ago.I knew the stuff that went on in elan by me and to me was not because I was sick or a bad person. It was because elan was sick and a bad place.

Thank God for cannabis, it helped me deal with the brainwashing nonsense that elan  (it gave me space no pun  between elan and myself)tried to put in my head. It helped me heal from elan. No phama drug would have helped like cannabis  believe me.

 Yeah I hate elan and its henchmen. It was/is a sick ,twisted place.

I consider myself a success because I  survived the certian pains of hell that was elan, which was criminal with out a doubt, and I am alive to talk about the truth that was/is elan. Yes I am a success.

Ursus thank you for reposting this thread. Puts things in a different light. The more things change the more it seems they stay the same. Different thread ,different idea, same thing .

Nobody wants to have program fodder crammed down their throats. Granted ricci hated AA alot of other programs incorporated the 12 along with their particular brand of brainwashing. If I was in one of those programs and someone started proselytizing AA I would be getting a little peeved.

Its kinda how I feel when people say oh elan was good and I should "just "get over it. I get actually more than a little peeved , I get angry.

Thank you again Ursus.

Peace
Matt

[RTP2003]

Thank God for cannabis, it helped me deal with the brainwashing nonsense that elan  (it gave me space no pun  between elan and myself)tried to put in my head. It helped me heal from elan. No phama drug would have helped like cannabis  believe me.

This is an important point that I appreciate you bringing up, Matt.  Cannabis is especially helpful to program survivors because it not only helps us cope with the trauma, but also helps us see beyond the indoctrination to which we were subjected.  It certainly has been a major factor, and of indispensable aid, in my healing and coping with the bullshit that Straight foisted upon my psyche.  The pharma drugs I took gave me just enough energy to attempt suicide.  Smoking marijuana has helped me to "destroy the Straight that still existed inside my head".  Of course, to the still program-indoctrinated (read:brainwashed), I am a relapsed druggie, disgruntled about my stint in an abusive program because I wasn't able to smoke marijuana while I was there.

Nobody wants to have program fodder crammed down their throats. Granted ricci hated AA alot of other programs incorporated the 12 along with their particular brand of brainwashing. If I was in one of those programs and someone started proselytizing AA I would be getting a little peeved.

Damn right!  My first exposure to the Stepcult was at Straight, and, knowing what I know now, I'm not about to listen to those that practice Stepcraft.  If it works for them, great, but I'm not about to listen to them tout how great it is.  Save that shit for your goddamn meetings, don't bring it to a board comprised primarily of survivors of abusive "treatment" facilities, particularly ones, as you stated, who come from a program where Stepcraft was practiced.

[Ursus]

Thank you Ursus.

Y'all are most welcome. There are posts still missing from the end of the thread, unfortunately. If I'm able to locate them, I'll be sure to add them in.

[Matt C. Hoffman]

I wonder if there are other

residents that have successfully put elan in its properspective,  and consider themselves a success . I am willing to bet that there are quite a few  folks that don't credit any cult program with their success,(like elan)

This was one of the lost threads that I was talking about ,and I am glad the it has been found.

Anne you are most correct.( great letter btw from Shapiro to his daughter)

Peace

Matt

[DannyB II]

I wonder if there are other

residents that have successfully put elan in its properspective,  and consider themselves a success . I am willing to bet that there are quite a few  folks that don't credit any cult program with their success,(like elan)

This was one of the lost threads that I was talking about ,and I am glad the it has been found.

Anne you are most correct.( great letter btw from Shapiro to his daughter)

Peace

Matt

:shamrock:
I believe there are many. I have read there stories on various sites, talked with old friends who know of others who are doing well. They got better just like we did, we just have not met them yet. It is not all gloom and doom...lol
Danny