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Author Topic: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....  (Read 37577 times)

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Offline Ursus

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2010, 12:01:24 PM »
What is the institutional purchase price for AA materials? My guess it is not the same as for individuals.
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Offline RTP2003

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2010, 12:02:49 PM »
Quote from: "Eliscu2"
Anyone ever heard of Rational Recovery?

Oh yeah.  The guy who started it, Jack Trimpey, is probably a real prick to be around, but he has some good stuff to say.
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RTP2003 fought in defense of the Old Republic

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2010, 12:03:45 PM »
Quote from: "Eliscu2"
Come to think of it..........
Any Institution I have ever seen has "The Big Book" and all kinds of AA/NA material on the inside.
Even the state hospital has a forensic unit with a "Dual Diagnosis" section.

Yep and Bill pushed that from the start.  Sending postcards to the hospitals, med centers etc. to "promote" his program of "attraction".

Quote
I always thought it was kinda wierd when they would basically tell patients "Do our drugs, not yours."
Usually "thier drugs" were a handful of the latest brain disabeling stuff to hit the market.

Yep...I HATE BigPharma!!!


Quote
Anyone ever heard of Rational Recovery?

That's Jack Trimpey's I think.

https://rational.org/index.php?id=1
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2010, 09:25:01 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Danny Bennison"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Popular A.A. slogans heard in meetings every day:

    * "A.A. is the last house on the street."
    * "It's Our Way or the Die Way."
    * "Work The Steps, Or Die!"
    * If you don't Work The Program, then your fate will be "Jails, Institutions, Or Death".


From Hazelden - notorious for their generous use of AA....

"None of us in Alcoholics Anonymous is normal. Our abnormality compels us to go to AA... We all go because we need to. Because the alternative is drastic, either A.A. or death."
Delirium Tremens, Stories of Suffering and Transcendence, Ignacio Solares, Hazelden, 2000, page 27.
:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Hazelton after Bill died tried a legal loophole to grab the rights to AA's trademark name. Trust me AA/GSO does not endorse Hazelton. Their treatment programs and the material they publish is all about money.
 :shamrock:
Danny.....
But AA/GSO actually makes a bit of money itself, not to mention getting their credibility boosted ... at the expense of Hazelden and other 12-step programs. These programs purchase materials from AA, and later push successful clients AA's way for followup and support post-program.

AA's quibbles with the profit-driven nature of most programs seems a bit insincere.
:shamrock:  :shamrock:
Ursus, you are pretty good with info no doubt. But seriously dude if this is the best you got get in line behind the Anne, Free and the rest and go drink your OJ.
You folks just can't get it we don't care about boosting, clients, post support....bla bla bla. Trouble here is most of you folks have been involved in treatment centers and (peeling the onion) to uncover the ruses. That you bring this attitude and biased opinion to debating AA. Ursus where are you getting this info, opinion, experience or whatever.
No hate here, love ya dude....Danny
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Offline Octomommy

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2010, 09:45:04 PM »
Danny,
You are a Troll.
 :feedtrolls:
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2010, 05:15:34 AM »
:beat:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:52:11 AM by Anonymous »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2010, 10:14:10 AM »
Romania has a better idea than AA:





Road signs warning drivers that intoxicated people may be in the road have been put up as Romania tries to reduce the number of accidents.
The signs read "Attention — Drunks" and show a reveller crawling along with a bottle in his hand.

Link



...
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Offline Ursus

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Drivers warned of drunks in road...
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2010, 10:28:55 AM »
:roflmao:


TIMES online
March 10, 2010

Drivers warned of drunks in road as Romania tries to reduce accidents
Foreign Staff

Road signs warning drivers that drunken people may be in the road have been put up to reduce the number of accidents.

The signs read "Attention - Drunks" and show a reveller crawling along with a bottle in his hand.

Petru Antal, the Mayor of Pecica in Romania said his town had a vibrant nightlife. He said: "We are a border town and have lots of cars thundering through here all the time. But we also have a very vibrant nightlife and the two don't mix.

"We have to target the drivers because by the time they get to this state the pedestrians are beyond caring."


Copyright 2010 Times Newspapers Ltd.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2010, 10:32:43 AM »
:rofl:  From the comments:

    Michael Stewart wrote:
      The economy and its people brought to its knees - should be Labour's epitaph!
    March 10, 2010 10:47 AM GMT[/list][/list]
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    Offline Anonymous

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    Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
    « Reply #84 on: March 10, 2010, 10:38:25 AM »
    :jawdrop:
    « Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 05:57:23 AM by Anonymous »
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    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
    « Reply #85 on: March 10, 2010, 10:40:03 PM »
    ..
    « Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:26:10 PM by DannyB II »
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    Stand and fight, till there is no more.

    Offline Free Will

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    Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
    « Reply #86 on: March 10, 2010, 11:51:13 PM »
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    It is always funny until it is family and your loved one is sitting in front of you and your saying it is a bad habit, you don't need a higher power pull your boots straps up and stop it.

    While that can work with some people, nobody is suggesting that.  The alternatives I would suggest revolve around getting people to realize why they drink, and treating that problem.  People drink to cope with problems in their lives.  It's a symptom, not a disease in itself.  In addition to that, certain drugs can help with withdraws and cravings to start off with (if you watched the AA episode of Penn & Teller you would know that).  Convincing a person that they are weak and powerless without a group is nothing more than a manipulation.  People can be taught skills to deal with these bad habits.  All AA does is say "let go and let god".  Blame the disease for bad and credit the higher power for good.  It's completely irrational.

    Quote
    Your running around trying to find help. I know many of you haven't been their with a loved one yet.

    Actually. I have, and I've seen people get sober without the help of AA, and I have had people close to me who coped using alcohol.  You have no knowledge of my personal life and it's irrelevant to my arguments.

    Quote
    Well thank god, I really don't wish this calamity on you. Like I said there will be folks that show up here and I want them to have the other experience of AA to read.

    And I must say you make an excellent spokesperson.
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    To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level with those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals. But to be punished, however severely, because we have deserved it, because we ‘ought to have known better’, is to be treated as a human person made in God’s image.
    [size=85]C.S. Lewis - The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment[/size]

    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
    « Reply #87 on: March 11, 2010, 12:21:20 AM »
    ..
    « Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 07:26:38 PM by DannyB II »
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    Stand and fight, till there is no more.

    Joel

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    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    « Reply #88 on: March 11, 2010, 03:09:32 AM »
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    « Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 07:47:12 AM by Joel »
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    Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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    Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
    « Reply #89 on: March 11, 2010, 03:29:53 AM »
    Interesting thread... good points from both sides of the fence.

    I think I'll keep my 2 cents short for once... I'm not necessarily against AA/NA, simply put, I feel that the AA doctrine is a bit illogical.

    That being said, what is truly unfortunate is that there arent any trusted alturnitives to rival AA/NA. I'm sure somewhere out there it exists but I just don't understand how out of all possibilities for treatment of addiction THIS is the most popular...

    I did some research on that "rational recovery" mumbo jumbo and I have to say, although it seems to have cut the fat so to speak, its still a watered down version of AA.

    Call me an idealist but wouldn't it just make sense to apply some good ol fashioned analytical psychology to the treatment of addiction? Why does it always have to be one size fits all? I would picture someone with a bonafide addictive disorder to be in great need of some in depth personal therapy, not just a meeting to listen to other people bitch about how they fucked up their lives. Because for people like this, just abstaining from their drug of choice is NOT going to "save their lives", it takes a total life change.

    I've seen many different sides of what has been labeled by AA to be the "disease concept", I've seen many people self medicate due to pre-existing disorders, a few with legitimate addictive personalities and believe it or not I've met several people who just crave the "druggie" lifestyle... does this mean they are all diseased? I think there needs to be further study into this concept, considering addiction was only categorized as a disease so that it could be treatable instead of punishable, I think AA kind of ran away with that one trying to give creditability to the whole "powerless" pretense.

    I have to say tho, in all honesty my heart goes out to those who are truly affected by such a burden, to feel utterly powerless to something is no laughing matter and not everyone has the mental strength to go at something as powerful as human impulse alone. I have no intention of making fun of the plight of those affected by addiction, in fact all I would hope for is to help by encouraging those who want to recover to EMPOWER themselves and to believe that all the strength they need can be found within themselves... not in a book, or at a meeting or with believing in some kind of imaginary friend, but instead the answers have always been in their hearts and minds.

     :rose:  :rose:  :rose:  :rose:  :rose:
    « Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 03:30:27 PM by FemanonFatal2.0 »
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    [size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
    ...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]



    [size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
    CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]
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