General Interest > Open Free for All
Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---http://www.spiritualriver.com/what-is-the-success-rate-of-recovery-in-aa/
What is the Success Rate of Recovery in AA?
What is the success rate of recovery in AA? That depends entirely on who you ask, and on exactly what you are measuring.
For example, there is documentation that proves “early AA” had a success rate of about 75 percent.
On the other hand, there are some people who claim that AA actually has a negative rate of recovery, and that people actually relapse in AA who might have recovered “spontaneously” through spontaneous remission of the disease.
Finally, there are a large number of estimates out there that put the success rate of recovery at around 3 to 5 percent.
But it is indeed a tricky thing to measure. For one, what exactly are we measuring? Complete abstinence for life? Alcoholics who successfully make it to one year sober? What exactly determines “success” when we are talking about success rates? This is the first half of the measuring problem.
The other half of the problem is that it is very difficult to obtain truly accurate results across a large sample. There are a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is the anonymity that the program is based on. Add that to the shame and guilt associated with relapse, and you have the potential to seriously overestimate the success rate based on an anonymous survey.
What does AA themselves have to say? Here is a piece of an actual memo from the Alcoholics Anonymous GSO (General Services Office), based on an analysis of a survey period that ran for 12 years:
:shamrock:
Who is saying this was done by the GSO A.A. this is a inaccurate statement Joel. A.A. I promise has never conducted a survey on this, it would totally go against it's principles. Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company is full of shit. This was definitely a independent survey. Which they tried to tie to the GSO, which many have done before.
:shamrock:
“After just one month in the Fellowship, 81% of the new members have already dropped out. After three months, 90% have left, and 95% have discontinued attendance inside one year.” (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company).
Of course, this doesn’t really tell the whole story, as many people will leave after AA after being first introduced to it, and then later return once they have truly been beaten by their alcoholism. Most people who are a success story in AA tell of how they struggled–sometimes for years–going in and out of AA before they finally “got it.”
On both sides of this issue, people are very passionate
If you follow the 2 links at the beginning of this article, you’ll see that one is definitely pro-AA, and the other is vehemently anti-AA. One is claiming up to a 95% success rate, while the other is claiming AA is actually detrimental and has a negative success rate (lower than spontaneous remission). And you’ll also notice that both people are very passionate and firm believers in the stance they are taking. Why such a discrepancy here?
I believe the reason is that AA is effective for some, but it is clearly not for everyone. It is not a one-size-fits-all program. There are plenty of people who have achieved success and meaningful sobriety in AA. There are also those who have honestly gave it there best shot, only to eventually relapse and die. This is unfortunate, and it begs the question: “What are the alternatives?”
Unfortunately, there aren’t a whole lot. Yes, there are a few out there, but they are spread few and far between, and there are many disadvantages with all of them. While many of the alternatives to AA claim to have superior success rates, their method of measurement suffers from the same flaws as AA, and their is very little widespread support in these programs.
If you are on the fence about going to AA, here is what I suggest you do: Ignore the success rates you hear about and give it a chance. Do this knowing that AA is the single biggest support system of recovery in the world. The program may not be perfect, but it’s the best our planet has. The alternatives might talk a big game, but they don’t have meetings in every city in the world. AA does. You can find support just about anywhere. And it’s technically free to boot.
Here’s another suggestion: find someone in AA who has multiple years of sobriety and ask them what the success rate is for AA. They will likely tell you that they don’t care. It works for them.
Action items – What does all this mean for you?
1) Give AA a chance, because the meetings are everywhere and therefore the level of support is mind-boggling.
2) Don’t get stuck in thinking there is only one path to recovery – that is NOT TRUE. There are many paths.
3) Stay open. Regardless of what you choose, implement the spiritual principles into your life. Practice gratitude.
--- End quote ---
:shamrock:
Who is more successful with recovery we (A.A.) have never been concerned with debating that issue, it is trivial at best to hash out who is the big man on the hill of recovery. If you really want to know who has the most success it is organized
church. Baptist, Catholics, Methodists....ect. Look it up.....for all you God un-fearing folks...lol
Danny.....
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Danny,
I am trying to present both viewpoints from those who oppose AA and those who support AA. Ask me what I personally think about AA. You might be surprised.
--- End quote ---
OK I can dig that. Why are you playing both sides I put the topic out there and I'm asking people for their honest experience or I'll settle for their opinion. Because I'll tell ya there is a lot of misinformation out there on fornits from people that don't even have one clue about what their talking about. Sure I can, "cut, copy, paste and post" my ass off. But what I am posting is not my opinion or experience it is someone else. AA is not some opinion pole, most of the folks that come to AA have been through the treatment regimen. They are beat up in so many ways, what they are looking for is a place to land. That is safe, no pressure. I don't know what"AA" you folks are talking about but keep drinking that "Group Think, Communist, Brainwashing Kool- Aid".
I sit with through-out a month at least 60 members that have come from our industry and our making something with their lives
which AA had a part in their happiness.
AA is nothing more then a Design for Living. AA (GSO) does not hold itself responsible for the actions of its members.
Tradition 2, " For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority-a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders (GSO and rotating committees @ local levels) are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
:shamrock:
Danny.....
Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "Joel" ---Danny, I offer my apologies. My approach may have not been the best but I was trying to present viewpoints on both sides. I will keep my personal beliefs short and simple. When I was working in Galveston Texas, I knew a man who was sober for more than 15 years. He spoke highly of AA. He took advantage of an opportunity to take on a new perspective through AA and become successful. This person was also working at a treatment center helping those with alcohol addictions. In addition, he was running his own business. There are many success stories like these. People, not all on this website, have negative views towards religion. As a result, they focus on the negative and don't acknowledge the success stories. It takes allot of will power to stay sober, especially those who are going through recovery.
--- End quote ---
Thanks Joel,
I am not looking necessarily looking for endorsements or opposing views like I said just honest debate. AA is based upon Christian Judea principles yet it takes a more spiritual tack then a religious. You develop your own concept of a God (higher power) which is why there are Catholics, Muslims, Baptists, Christians, Buddhas, Hindus, Jews ect......attending. Why was it based on the Judea principles because in 1934 there was no book yet just ideas from various sources so Bill, his wife and Bob decided to use the Bible. Well as time went on they wanted to be sure not to exclude anybody for any reason so they put the Bible down and proceeded on. I am glad they did we would not be what we are today.
Folks nothing is perfect, but it is a large stretch to compare AA or categorize AA as brainwashing. Because then why don't we say our parents, bosses, politicians, fathers, mothers, families when does it stop. Why I am having a hard time with AA and my other examples I could walk away. I wasn't forced to listen or participate.
:shamrock:
Danny.....
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version