Re: OUR WE RUINING OUR CHILDREN WITHOUT KNOWING IT?

[Whooter]

Good Article, busybee.  It seems each generation of parents and kids have similar struggles.  

One thing I could suggest is to keep communication open as much as possible and insist that all their friends and dates come over for dinner.  If your kid doesn’t want you to meet their friends then that is a red flag and would prompt a discussion.



...

[Che Gookin]

What???

Kids embarrassed of their dorky parents?

NEVER......................................

[psy]

oh my bad it is your signature...sorry

It's an inside joke, just in case you're wondering.  Long story.

[maruska]

insist that all their friends and dates come over for dinner...you make me smile:)


my daughter , 17 - typical extrovert, has so many friends it would kill me to ask them all over for dinner...and by the way, my parents did not know all my friends either.


What I have learned during these past years is: I cannot do much as a parent NOW...to accept that is the hardest part of parenting ever. Love them, set some reasonable rules, be there for them when they ask for help and advice ...and pray LOL...
I have two children(20 and 17) and granted both of them prepared us parents some sleepless night, I fear for them, I am concerned about their choices...but I have experienced how they grow through their mistakes, how they mature ...and how we as  parents change and learn from THEM .. is a fascinating journey...  

We live in Europe and I still not do understand: why is it acceptable for American parents to send the children away to some far away schools for troubled teens (and by the description of a troubled teen most of the teenage population should be in such schools LOL)...why is that acceptable (and don´t give me that: it is the hardest desicion ever BS I have read ) ...why do American parents think that parenting can be replaced by anything...anybody...

[Whooter]

insist that all their friends and dates come over for dinner...you make me smile:)


my daughter , 17 - typical extrovert, has so many friends it would kill me to ask them all over for dinner...and by the way, my parents did not know all my friends either.


What I have learned during these past years is: I cannot do much as a parent NOW...to accept that is the hardest part of parenting ever. Love them, set some reasonable rules, be there for them when they ask for help and advice ...and pray LOL...
I have two children(20 and 17) and granted both of them prepared us parents some sleepless night, I fear for them, I am concerned about their choices...but I have experienced how they grow through their mistakes, how they mature ...and how we as parents change and learn from THEM .. is a fascinating journey...

You don’t have to invite everyone over that they know.  Just their close friends.  Get to know the crowd they are hanging out with.  I had to do this as a kid and I had to meet my friends parents too… yea they were dorky but looking back it made all of us that much closer and didn’t mind stopping over and hanging with the family before heading out.  Of course we would slip a few drops of visine in our eyes before going inside (Ha,Ha,Ha).

Making mistakes and seeing/living with the consequences are the most important part of growing up in my opinion.  This is where the real learning takes place.   Parents need to grow and adjust along with each child (life is fluid), agreed, but the children need to understand and respect the family rules.

We live in Europe and I still not do understand: why is it acceptable for American parents to send the children away to some far away schools for troubled teens (and by the description of a troubled teen most of the teenage population should be in such schools LOL)...why is that acceptable (and don´t give me that: it is the hardest desicion ever BS I have read ) ...why do American parents think that parenting can be replaced by anything...anybody...

Americans are passionate about their children and want the best for them.  Europeans tend to focus on their own lives and just hope for the best with their kids.  Everytime there is a case of abuse in the United States it makes headlines where as in Europe they view this as an embarrassment; pretend it didn’t happen and omit it from the papers.  You almost never read about how your children are mistreated in Romania, Bulgaria, Moldova, Hungary, France, Italy and UK. (to name a few)  Some toddlers kept in cages for years or just tossed into the streets to fend for themselves.  People driving to work think they are a nuisance begging in the streets and ask for the government to make them go away so they are not reminded.  How many times over the last several decades did “Haut de la Garenne” come up as an issue only to be smacked down by the press and ignored by the public because it was too embarrassing for you to talk about publicly..... allowing the victims to suffer for years without giving them the support they needed?

In the US It is an extremely small segment of the population who end up going to these schools.  Americans, in general, are typically pro active and like to nip a problem in the bud and find solutions before a major problem occurs.  We see the conditions of the juvy homes and prisons here in the US as well  as in Europe and many (in the US)have decided that we prefer an alternative.  Europeans have the same problems we do they just decided not to address the issues.  Once we perfect a good alternative you will sit up and notice and adopt our methods as you have always done.  Until that time you will just sit back and watch the rest of the world move forward, turn a blind eye to your kids and criticize the US for their actions.



...

[psy]

Please ignore the above embarrassment, Maruska.  His opinions do not reflect everybody in the USA.

[Whooter]

Please ignore the above embarrassment, Maruska.  His opinions do not reflect everybody in the USA.

Hey, screw you, psy.  How many times have we sat here and listened to Oscar tell us about how they provide alcohol to 12 and 14 year old kids with the excuses that at  least they know what their kids are doing at night and its better than sending them to get help like we do in America.  All along ignoring the fact that they have the biggest minority alcohol problem in Europe (as reported by their own country).

I don’t mind constructive criticism and discussion but we are at least addressing the issues here in the US and we put more effort and resources towards our youth than any other country in the world.

Buying alcohol for 12 year olds and building a bon fire isn’t effective parenting in my opinion.  But hey that’s Europe and if they feel that is the best for their kids who am I to criticize.  But we should not tolerate people criticizing us while we are trying to figure out the best way to help our youth.  



...

[Froderik]

http://fornits.com/SIBS

[Froderik]

Buying alcohol for 12 year olds and building a bon fire isn’t effective parenting in my opinion.  But hey that’s Europe and if they feel that is the best for their kids who am I to criticize.  But we should not tolerate people criticizing us while we are trying to figure out the best way to help our youth.  



...

I disagree, Whooter... if it hadn't been for the adults willing to buy me a six-pack when i wanted one, i might not have been able to get my hands on any beer that day, and that would have been a situation which can only be considered a wrong situation by any red-blooded American male with a genuine appreciation for the bottle. Some of the best times I had at that age involved alcohol, so I don't think that is a fair assessment.

[Whooter]

Buying alcohol for 12 year olds and building a bon fire isn’t effective parenting in my opinion.  But hey that’s Europe and if they feel that is the best for their kids who am I to criticize.  But we should not tolerate people criticizing us while we are trying to figure out the best way to help our youth.  



...

I disagree, Whooter... if it hadn't been for the adults willing to buy me a six-pack when i wanted one, i might not have been able to get my hands on any beer that day, and that would have been a situation which can only be considered a wrong situation by any red-blooded American male with a genuine appreciation for the bottle. Some of the best times I had at that age involved alcohol, so I don't think that is a fair assessment.

Ha,Ha,Ha good point Frod!!

[maruska]

Thank you Whooter!
You really made my day!
I will print your post and show it my colleagues...and to my American friends too....they actually live in Europe and really need this lesson to know, how terrible life in Europe is and what terrible parents Europeans are :seg:
Thanks for the laugh, really:))

But still...you did not answer my question...

I really hoped to hear and opinion, why is this acceptable, to send the children away and not to actually parent them...like we terrible Europeans do:))...instead I got a lecture about life in Europe.. :notworthy: ...well, thanks anyway!

[psy]

Please ignore the above embarrassment, Maruska.  His opinions do not reflect everybody in the USA.

Hey, screw you, psy.  How many times have we sat here and listened to Oscar tell us about how they provide alcohol to 12 and 14 year old kids with the excuses that at  least they know what their kids are doing at night and its better than sending them to get help like we do in America.

That's the culture.  Here we make it so taboo the kids damn near drink themselves to death when they turn 21 (as opposed to learning to moderate).

All along ignoring the fact that they have the biggest minority alcohol problem in Europe (as reported by their own country).

Source?  And it all depends on what you see as a youth drinking "problem" and how that is defined.  If it's defined as any underage drinking, yeah... i'm sure there's a big "problem".  Is it defined by instances of alcohol poisoning?  How is it defined?

I don’t mind constructive criticism and discussion but we are at least addressing the issues here in the US and we put more effort and resources towards our youth than any other country in the world.

Buying alcohol for 12 year olds and building a bon fire isn’t effective parenting in my opinion.  But hey that’s Europe and if they feel that is the best for their kids who am I to criticize.

You were just doing that a post ago.

But we should not tolerate people criticizing us while we are trying to figure out the best way to help our youth.

Sometimes people on the outside looking in have some valuable insights.

[Whooter]

Thank you Whooter!
You really made my day!
I will print your post and show it my colleagues...and to my American friends too....they actually live in Europe and really need this lesson to know, how terrible life in Europe is and what terrible parents Europeans are  
Thanks for the laugh, really:))

I am sorry my response bothered you so much.  I don’t think all Europeans are terrible parents, just like not all Americans are terrible parents.  I think that Europeans like yourself are limited in the ways  they can help their children and options they have available to them.  Some parts of Europe lack the information to allow them to make the best decisions for their children.

But still...you did not answer my question...

I really hoped to hear and opinion, why is this acceptable, to send the children away and not to actually parent them...like we terrible Europeans do:))...instead I got a lecture about life in Europe..  ...well, thanks anyway!

I have been reading here for awhile and haven’t seen one example, here on fornits, of an American parent not parenting their children.  If you are referring to at-risk children who have not responded well to local services then I would say that occurs around the whole world.  Most of these kids have been parented since birth, though.  If you feel the best thing to do is ignore their problem then that is your choice as a parent.  But many feel they should try all the options available to them to help their children, even if it means being away from them for awhile.

Many of these children respond very well to their stay at Therapeutic Boarding schools and after several months return home and move on to a happy and healthy life.  What is so wrong with that?  To give up a year versus a life time is the better choice I would think.

If your child were dying of cancer, they were not responding to any local threatments and you had the choice of sending your child away for treatment which you have seen work well on many other cancer patients would you choose that?  
or would just taking your chances at home without treatment hoping it would go into remission on its own?

Should we criticize those who choose to send their child for treatment or those who decide to not spend the money and hope they get well on their own?  Or maybe we shouldnt criticize either one because it is atheir own decision to make.



...

[maruska]

Oh no, your response did not bother me at all:))...it was funny..


but this conversation is now really getting interesting...first of all, your example of a child with cancer ...well, I think now I start to understand the diference..because puberty is NOT a disease in Europe...it is a phase, a very difficult phase..NOT a disease
(Please understand I am talking about "normal" teenagers ...not teenagers who commited crimes or  have mental ilnesses...)
Of course sometimes parents need help...but why not have help and specialists available at home...why the need to ship them of...you know that is what makes me curious...how could I send my child away when he is down and hurting and not speak to him or her for days..(maybe weeks?). In the name of a therapy?

...Coming back to your example...I would do anything for my child, if he or she would have cancer or any other serious disease...I would move heaven and earth BUT..I would not move from his or her side, I would not leave the child for a minute, I would be in touch with the doctors daily, I would do what any mother in the world does for her sick child...actually I did all that...

PS..Please excuse any mistakes and spelling errors...I know I make probably many:))

[Whooter]

Oh no, your response did not bother me at all:))...it was funny..


but this conversation is now really getting interesting...first of all, your example of a child with cancer ...well, I think now I start to understand the diference..because puberty is NOT a disease in Europe...it is a phase, a very difficult phase..NOT a disease

I think we agree here.  It is similar here in the states.

(Please understand I am talking about "normal" teenagers ...not teenagers who commited crimes or have mental ilnesses...)

I am talking about teenagers who have been receiving help via local services and don’t seem to be getting better.  The parents are given an option to do nothing or have their children helped outside of the home.  Some parents take the chance and do nothing and others try every option to get help for their child.  Even if it means they cannot be with them.

Of course sometimes parents need help...but why not have help and specialists available at home...why the need to ship them of...you know that is what makes me curious...how could I send my child away when he is down and hurting and not speak to him or her for days..(maybe weeks?). In the name of a therapy?

It sounds like you have never had to make that decision and you are fortunate to not have to.  But what if the help you are getting at home is not working?

...Coming back to your example...I would do anything for my child, if he or she would have cancer or any other serious disease...I would move heaven and earth BUT..I would not move from his or her side, I would not leave the child for a minute, I would be in touch with the doctors daily, I would do what any mother in the world does for her sick child...actually I did all that...

PS..Please excuse any mistakes and spelling errors...I know I make probably many:))

If you couldn’t be by your childs side would you chose to keep them home without treatment? Or would you put aside your own wishes and get the help your child needs?




...