Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Public Sector Gulags
New York State shutting state facilities?
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---A drop from 75% down to 7% seems large to me also. I know that the TBS industry has experienced these success rates but to see it drop so easily for kids who are coming out of a prison environment (like the Missouri model) is a huge success in my mind. Dropping the heavy hand for a more therapeutic approach does seem to be the answer, though.
--- End quote ---
Hey, ya might just try reading the previous page of this here very thread, although I know ya did post in it...
Here are the stats that I see cited, I haven't seen the figures you cite anywhere save that "teen help" snake oil ad:
NPR: Missouri Youth Prisons · Listen to this Real Player news clip that explains how Missouri's Juvenile Justice System differs from the juvenile systems in other states.
August 21, 2001 · Morning Edition
Matt Hackworth of member station KCUR has a report on the Missouri juvenile justice system -- while over 70 percent of kids housed in conventional jails nationwide end up back behind bars, in Missouri that figure is only 11 percent. State officials credit their juvenile justice system, which emphasizes counseling and rehabilitation.[/list][/list]
Moreover, how does one interpret "small dormitory-style facilities, free of bars and perimeter fences" as being equivalent to "therapeutic boarding schools?"
Seems the Aspen folk are getting kinda loose and slothful with their advertising standards here!
Whooter:
Wow, your tough on people....Here, this is why the numbers are different.
Your source:
In 2001, over 70 percent of kids housed in conventional jails nationwide end up back behind bars, in Missouri that figure is only 11 percent.
My source:
In 2006, only 7% of Missouri teens who finished the therapeutic program were in adult prisons within three years. This compares to 75% in New York and California. No Missouri teens have committed suicide since the overhaul of the system. Nationally, more than 25 teens within juvenile systems kill themselves every year.
It seems your figure was 5 years earlier and refers to a nationwide average of 70% and that Missouri is experiencing an 11% return rate at that time.
My figure speaks to New York and California with 75% and 7% in Missouri.
So looking at both our numbers it seems the Missouri model has been improved over the 5 years from 11% return rate down to 7%. I find looking at many sources valuable. With the addition of your source we can see that they are both in line with each other. It would be interesting to see if they have been able to improve upon the 7% since 2006.
--- Quote --- Moreover, how does one interpret "small dormitory-style facilities, free of bars and perimeter fences" as being equivalent to "therapeutic boarding schools?"
--- End quote ---
I think it goes beyond the physical set-up. The Missouri model has incorporated a therapy component into their rehabilitation and focuses more on family and getting them involved. The Staff to child ratio has been brought more in line with therapeutic boarding schools and they focus on an easier transition back into society.
...
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Moreover, how does one interpret "small dormitory-style facilities, free of bars and perimeter fences" as being equivalent to "therapeutic boarding schools?"
--- End quote ---
I think it goes beyond the physical set-up. The Missouri model has incorporated a therapy component into their rehabilitation and focuses more on family and getting them involved. The Staff to child ratio has been brought more in line with therapeutic boarding schools and they focus on an easier transition back into society.
--- End quote ---
I'm just going by what your "informative" source wrote, namely (emphasis added):
Missouri Reforms Its Reform Schools to a More Effective Therapeutic Model
The state of Missouri changed its juvenile prison system into a new, more effective model that looks something like a series of therapeutic boarding schools...[/list]
While we're on the subject of "more effective therapeutic models," do tell us what is so "therapeutic" about going through Aspen's Lifesteps, experiential exercises based in part on those used in the psychologically destructive LGAT Lifespring?
Given how coercive and damaging many adults found Lifespring's methodology to be, what makes you think it would be anything but more so for adolescents?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Randy Jackson" ---You two can rumble for 15 more pages. What is the solution to the problem in state facilities?
--- End quote ---
So far the discussion has lead us to following what the state of Missouri did which was to drop the heavy hand and cell doors for a more therapeutic approach which seems to be working.
@ Ursus : Oh boy, your asking the wrong guy on that one. I don’t have a background in therapy. I know first hand that sitting in a Russian style sauna in the winter time and then jumping into the snow or icy pond is extremely therapeutic but I couldn’t explain the details of why it works. It just does.
...
psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---@ Ursus : Oh boy, your asking the wrong guy on that one. I don’t have a background in therapy. I know first hand that sitting in a Russian style sauna in the winter time and then jumping into the snow or icy pond is extremely therapeutic but I couldn’t explain the details of why it works. It just does.
--- End quote ---
Aah but can you prove it works? Just because something makes a person feel fantastic or changed or healthy does not make it so. The amount of popular snake oil and quackery out there in the market proves that. Something can only be said to objectively work or be therapeutic if it provide demonstratable, consistant, and repeatable results. That has never been done with the programs you support so highly. One would think given the amount of money in this industry that if these programs actually worked there would be some independent, peer reviewed studies out there, but there aren't. Why is that?
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