Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Public Sector Gulags
New York State shutting state facilities?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---When you write "I think we can all agree" repeatedly, that doesn't mean that we all agree and it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
--- End quote ---
What I try to look at is your point of view and my own and see if there are any areas in which we have consensus. If it bothers you that I point this out I will stop.
--- Quote ---How is therapy better than general counseling sessions where the children don't have to rely on a reward/punishment system to advance? A visit home should not be a reward.
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Our whole society is based on a reward/ punishment system. The Missouri Model uses this also and has seen great results so far.
--- Quote ---And no, it isn't rocket science....the human mind and factors contributing to behavior is much more complicated than rocket science.
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I think what the director of youth service meant was that there are a few basic components of the Missouri Model which make it successful… Structure love and attention. I don’t think he was trying to make a direct comparison. He was Just saying that it is not that difficult.
--- Quote ---Peer groups are an innappropriate venue to open up about PRIVATE traumas and family issues.
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I disagree with you especially if they can place people in groups which have similar experiences. The Missouri Model has seen success so far in this approach as have the Therapeutic Boarding Schools.
--- Quote ---If you can't provide an example of a specific program that you consider to be successful, for whatever reason, I don't know how to discuss what models might be successful or detrimental. I don't have the knowledge base to discuss every positive and negative concerning program methods and their efficacy.
Blombrowski has listed a few programs that have serious issues, it would be productive to list a few that seem to be on the right track (in your opinion).
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I would rather not list names of Programs here for obvious reasons. But if you look at the shift from a large prison type system (like Missouri had) to a smaller more therapeutic setting modeled after TBS with its peer groups and group therapy with reward systems and then see the results that only 7% ended up back in prison after 3 years vs 75% in the old system its not hard to see that it has been a successful change.
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Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---When you write "I think we can all agree" repeatedly, that doesn't mean that we all agree and it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
How is therapy better than general counseling sessions where the children don't have to rely on a reward/punishment system to advance? A visit home should not be a reward.
And no, it isn't rocket science....the human mind and factors contributing to behavior is much more complicated than rocket science.
Peer groups are an innappropriate venue to open up about PRIVATE traumas and family issues.
If you can't provide an example of a specific program that you consider to be successful, for whatever reason, I don't know how to discuss what models might be successful or detrimental. I don't have the knowledge base to discuss every positive and negative concerning program methods and their efficacy.
Blombrowski has listed a few programs that have serious issues, it would be productive to list a few that seem to be on the right track (in your opinion).
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You are associated with HEAL. What ideas do HEAL members think will change abusive programs and other juvenile justice programs? It is easy to say, "Shut abusive programs down". However, these programs resurface elsewhere in the United States.
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---It seems we agree that when designing a new model that it would be best to avoid those programs which failed to deliver what they promised (as you pointed out above) and that is what the Missouri Model did…
“ The state of Missouri changed its juvenile prison system into a new, more effective model that looks something like a series of therapeutic boarding schools…………They often do therapeutic work in peer groups, where they open up about their pasts, family traumas, and other problems. If they adhere to rules, they receive rewards in the form of visits home, field trips, and other freedoms.
In 2006, only 7% of Missouri teens who finished the therapeutic program were in adult prisons within three years. This compares to 75% in New York and California. No Missouri teens have committed suicide since the overhaul of the system. Nationally, more than 25 teens within juvenile systems kill themselves every year.
"This isn't rocket science," said Mark Steward, director of Missouri's Division of Youth Services. "It's about giving young people structure, love and attention, and not allowing them to hurt themselves or other people. Pretty basic stuff, really."
What Missouri did was take from their research into TBS’s and other privately run programs what was working and that is their small staff to student ratio, therapeutic component, transition back into the community support and a focus on family to name a few.
The same would apply if you were going to start a new charter school you would look at and research what works well in other schools public and private but would not consider what was not effective thereby making a stronger more effective school.
As far as length of stay I don’t see how a shortened stay can increase effectiveness. It’s the quality of the stay that is important and the Missouri model doesn’t guarantee a short stay. The stay is determined by how well the kids apply themselves. TBS’s maintain profitability very well with shorter stays. The key is to keep the beds filled and as one student graduates another is accepted into the program. If you have a program with 150 beds then keeping them filled is the ultimate goal to profitability not how long they are there.
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The numbers from the blue (quoted) section in Whooter's post didn't exactly compare with numbers I've read about thus far, so I googled them...
Moreover, the comparison of the Missouri model with therapeutic boarding schools struck me as odd.
None of the material coming out of Missouri or describing that system seems to use that particular descriptive or those "relapse rate" percentages.
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Well... here's the actual source of Whooter's quote, one of a myriad of "teen help" spam sites:
http://www.teen-help-directory.com/miss ... hools.html
I noticed that the "article" appeared right alongside a "featured program" description of Academy at Swift River. :D
Ursus:
Network Solutions whois info for teen-help-directory.com:
--- Quote ---Domain Services Provided By:
000domains, http://www.000domains.com
Registrant:
Aspen Education Group
17777 Center Court Dr
Suite 300
Cerritos, CA 90703
US
Registrar: 000DOM
Domain Name: TEEN-HELP-DIRECTORY.COM
Created on: 01-NOV-02
Expires on: 01-NOV-10
Last Updated on: 15-OCT-07
Administrative, Technical Contact:
Hobbins, Mark vappleyard@aspeneducation.com
Aspen Education Group
17777 Center Court Dr
Suite 300
Cerritos, CA 90703
US
1.5624675526
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.RACKSPACE.COM
NS2.RACKSPACE.COM
End of Whois Information
--- End quote ---
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
The numbers from the blue (quoted) section in Whooter's post didn't exactly compare with numbers I've read about thus far, so I googled them...
Moreover, the comparison of the Missouri model with therapeutic boarding schools struck me as odd.
None of the material coming out of Missouri or describing that system seems to use that particular descriptive or those "relapse rate" percentages.
Well... here's the actual source of Whooter's quote, one of a myriad of "teen help" spam sites:
http://www.teen-help-directory.com/miss ... hools.html
I noticed that the "article" appeared right alongside a "featured program" description of Academy at Swift River. :D
--- End quote ---
I think you consider it spam because it doesnt agree with you and that is okay. But if the numbers or portions of the article seem off to you then post what you have. Its always good to compare the figures from different sources, maybe the director of youth services and others are not getting their figures straight. That would be good to know. I noticed the ASR ad also and thought they had updated their logo on recent ads. This one seemed a little dated to me, but it did pop out.
A drop from 75% down to 7% seems large to me also. I know that the TBS industry has experienced these success rates but to see it drop so easily for kids who are coming out of a prison environment (like the Missouri model) is a huge success in my mind. Dropping the heavy hand for a more therapeutic approach does seem to be the answer, though.
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