Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Public Sector Gulags
New York State shutting state facilities?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "wdtony" ---Missouri is still a very lax state when it comes to laws that apply to children. If I am not mistaken, Missouri is one of the few states where children are allowed to restrain other children in state public and privately owned programs.
@ Whooter, It is not the success of these programs that people are witnessing, it is the "illusion" of success that is purported by these programs. Please correct me if I am wrong. Which program, particularly, would you say is successful?
--- End quote ---
I have seen 100% turn around on kids going thru a program and they continue on a healthy path..... I have seen 80% and 60%..... No illusions.....I have also read (here on fornits) about kids who were not as fortunate. I have been exposed to and therefore am able to see the larger picture where you seem to only have information about a small sub set of kids who come out of programs. Just because these other kids dont post on fornits doesnt mean they do not exist. I think we can all agree that fornits doesnt represent an even cross section of kids who attended programs.
--- Quote ---I believe children are force fed medications on a daily basis in programs across the country. I have talked to many of the "recently released" and stories of this. I believe that children receive electro-shock "treatment" daily at the Judge Rotenberg Educational Center in Massachusetts, which is no secret. As for sexual abuse, I believe the loose regulations within this industry allow for many types of abuse to go unseen and therefore do not think it is unlikely that children are sexually abused daily in these programs. To trivialize these terrible things by acting as if they do not occur or to imply that they do not occur as frequently as people opine is to miss the point entirely.
--- End quote ---
I guess my point above is that not all kids are force fed meds in programs, sexually abused or shocked. just like not all kids are raped by their teachers in public school. The Missouri model is not going to be immune to these types of problems either. Predators have a way of getting into the system. But the steps being taken by the state of NY are good ones in my opinion and the Missouri model and private sector models (or hybrid) are going to prove to be a much safer alternative to what they have today. I think this is an area where we can all agree.
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blombrowski:
I grant that I came up with the most sensationalist examples that I could think of. But they all tie back to a specific program where the abuse/mistreatment/maltreatment is/was part of the "treatment".
Some of these methods have been discredited and until recently they still have happened behind closed doors (Mount Bachelor Academy). Some of these methods have been discredited and they happen in full view (Judge Rotenberg Center). Some of these methods are no longer used, but the people who used these methods have not expressed any public remorse for using those methods, or doubt their own judgment in using them, and are still working with youth (Family Foundation School, Elan).
There are different levels of critique here. There are programs whose programming is abusive (Mount Bachelor Academy). There are programs who have policies and systemic deficiencies that will inevitably lead to abuse (New York State's juvenile justice programs). There are programs that due to a lack of community integration and community oversight are more likely to attract employees who are likely to abuse kids (Bromley Brook). There are programs that may not legally abuse kids but are expensive and ineffective, and are effectively committing fraud, by selling the mental health equivalent of Airborne and claiming it actually cures colds (name your program).
In making some reasonable and fair critiques of these issues, in my encounters so far with the industry, I have run into programs who are receptive to these criticisms and are trying to make changes, and I have run into programs who are comfortable doing business as usual.
And the truth is, there's very little in the mental health and substance abuse world that we do that we know works. The one thing that seems to have evidence behind it, is that the shorter the duration of the program and the more community integrated that program can be, the better the outcomes. If the privately run programs want to move towards this model more power to them. It won't be as profitable, but it'll actually serve the youth they work with better. Is there a private program out there like the Missouri JJ model that serves youth from that youth's community, and only for a limited period of time?
Whooter:
It seems we agree that when designing a new model that it would be best to avoid those programs which failed to deliver what they promised (as you pointed out above) and that is what the Missouri Model did…
“ The state of Missouri changed its juvenile prison system into a new, more effective model that looks something like a series of therapeutic boarding schools…………They often do therapeutic work in peer groups, where they open up about their pasts, family traumas, and other problems. If they adhere to rules, they receive rewards in the form of visits home, field trips, and other freedoms.
In 2006, only 7% of Missouri teens who finished the therapeutic program were in adult prisons within three years. This compares to 75% in New York and California. No Missouri teens have committed suicide since the overhaul of the system. Nationally, more than 25 teens within juvenile systems kill themselves every year.
"This isn't rocket science," said Mark Steward, director of Missouri's Division of Youth Services. "It's about giving young people structure, love and attention, and not allowing them to hurt themselves or other people. Pretty basic stuff, really."
What Missouri did was take from their research into TBS’s and other privately run programs what was working and that is their small staff to student ratio, therapeutic component, transition back into the community support and a focus on family to name a few.
The same would apply if you were going to start a new charter school you would look at and research what works well in other schools public and private but would not consider what was not effective thereby making a stronger more effective school.
As far as length of stay I don’t see how a shortened stay can increase effectiveness. It’s the quality of the stay that is important and the Missouri model doesn’t guarantee a short stay. The stay is determined by how well the kids apply themselves. TBS’s maintain profitability very well with shorter stays. The key is to keep the beds filled and as one student graduates another is accepted into the program. If you have a program with 150 beds then keeping them filled is the ultimate goal to profitability not how long they are there.
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Anonymous:
Missouri is a state run facility...no money (per say)....comes from the state allocating funds....paperwork.
Paralell w/ juvie institutions...this is why I think it is revolutionary....now humans have self-will we can
only hope that the ones holding the "keys to the castle" don't become self-centered or the next Gov.
thinks there are getting to much funding.
wdtony:
When you write "I think we can all agree" repeatedly, that doesn't mean that we all agree and it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
How is therapy better than general counseling sessions where the children don't have to rely on a reward/punishment system to advance? A visit home should not be a reward.
And no, it isn't rocket science....the human mind and factors contributing to behavior is much more complicated than rocket science.
Peer groups are an innappropriate venue to open up about PRIVATE traumas and family issues.
If you can't provide an example of a specific program that you consider to be successful, for whatever reason, I don't know how to discuss what models might be successful or detrimental. I don't have the knowledge base to discuss every positive and negative concerning program methods and their efficacy.
Blombrowski has listed a few programs that have serious issues, it would be productive to list a few that seem to be on the right track (in your opinion).
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