Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Public Sector Gulags
New York State shutting state facilities?
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---...On the other hand Missouri model doesn't have the freedom to prescreen the kids who enter their program to the point that private TBS's can which is why Private TBS's maintain a high success rate.
--- End quote ---
While I'm not in Missouri, it would appear that their state programs screen on the basis of whether or not the kid has committed an actual crime, by virtue of what those programs are for. A kid who will not be helped by that system is unlikely to be there. *
TBSs, on the other hand, screen strictly on the basis of whether or not a parent can pay! Consequently, there are many kids who really do need some help ... mixed in with kids who just pissed their parents off or offended their sensibilities. This helps no one, save for the folks whose pockets get lined. And I beg to differ on that "high success rate," lol...
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Also, sometimes removing the child from the family setting is exactly what is needed in cases where the family setting is abusive and the Missouri model would not be very effective here.
--- End quote ---
I think you are dead wrong here. From what I've read, the counselors in Missouri attempt to address the reasons for the kids' having headed down the path they did, which, in many cases, is abusive home settings. Here, listen to the 4:20 clip from NPR:
NPR: Missouri Youth Prisons · Listen to this Real Player news clip that explains how Missouri's Juvenile Justice System differs from the juvenile systems in other states.
August 21, 2001 · Morning Edition
Matt Hackworth of member station KCUR has a report on the Missouri juvenile justice system -- while over 70 percent of kids housed in conventional jails nationwide end up back behind bars, in Missouri that figure is only 11 percent. State officials credit their juvenile justice system, which emphasizes counseling and rehabilitation.[/list][/list]
Whereas in the other corner, while no longer actually physically residing in an abusive home helps in some cases, TBSs rarely address the reasons for that abuse in any meaningful fashion. They definitely stop short of the point where it might affect their funding source! Plus, in many cases, the abuse that subsequently happens at a TBS is even worse than the abuse which was happening at home. Gotta wonder just how meaningful this kind of "preparation for life" is for anyone.
* See also this thread on the Missouri model:
Commentary: Lock up teen criminals?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29834[/list][/size]
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---While I'm not in Missouri, it would appear that their state programs screen on the basis of whether or not the kid has committed an actual crime, by virtue of what those programs are for. A kid who will not be helped by that system is unlikely to be there. *
TBSs, on the other hand, screen strictly on the basis of whether or not a parent can pay! Consequently, there are many kids who really do need some help ... mixed in with kids who just pissed their parents off or offended their sensibilities. This helps no one, save for the folks whose pockets get lined. And I beg to differ on that "high success rate," lol...
--- End quote ---
If I remember your past correctly you never had to go through the process of choosing an appropriate placement. I believe this was done for you. I also think you represent the predominate view here on fornits. TBS’s that I have been exposed to will not take kids unless they feel they can be successful or refer them to programs that they feel could help them if they cannot. I know many programs which will not take specific kids if they are too violent, have a long history of depression, suicide, eating disorders etc. no matter how much money they have. Each program may have differing strengths which is what is making them more successful.
In Missouri, like you said, if the kid commits a crime he is placed regardless of whether or not they are equipped to deal with each specific cause. The private sector has the flexibility to do a better job of screening for success, which they do.
--- Quote --- I think you are dead wrong here. From what I've read, the counselors in Missouri attempt to address the reasons for the kids' having headed down the path they did, which, in many cases, is abusive home settings. Here, listen to the 4:20 clip from NPR:
--- End quote ---
I don’t think I said Missouri ignores the problem. My point was that some kids need to be away from the family setting if it is abusive.
--- Quote ---Whereas in the other corner, while no longer actually physically residing in an abusive home helps in some cases, TBSs rarely address the reasons for that abuse in any meaningful fashion.
--- End quote ---
If a TBS takes on the case of a child in an abusive household then that is the problem they are going to address. Anyone who has been through the process knows that the strength of TBS’s is repairing family relations. From what I have read I don’t think Elan has this reputation which shows that not all programs are the same.
--- Quote --- They definitely stop short of the point where it might affect their funding source!
--- End quote ---
I think Nigel is a good example that this isn’t the norm. I am sure it happens though because it is a business and some would take advantage of the situation. Almost every program I have seen has a predetermined end date which they target fairly closely.
--- Quote --- Plus, in many cases, the abuse that subsequently happens at a TBS is even worse than the abuse which was happening at home. Gotta wonder just how meaningful this kind of "preparation for life" is for anyone.
--- End quote ---
We both know that abuse occurs in the state run agencies also. It occurs everywhere, we could all toss up examples public or private. But I think it is a feather in the private TBS’s hat that the state run facilities are starting to model their programs after the private sector by introducing a softer and more therapeutic approach to helping these children instead of just locking them up and abusing them.
...
blombrowski:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---But I think it is a feather in the private TBS’s hat that the state run facilities are starting to model their programs after the private sector by introducing a softer and more therapeutic approach to helping these children instead of just locking them up and abusing them.
--- End quote ---
:roflmao:
Who's kidding who (no pun intended).
On paper do you think even the programs in New York State are about punishment? They are called Residential Treatment Centers. The problem is the culture of the programs. Much like many of the private programs, where adults feel entitled to do whatever it is in there judgment will be helpful to the youth that they serve, whether that means sexualized role play, electric shocks, confrontational group therapy, making everyone in the program admit that they are an addict even if they've never used drugs, boxing rings, giving kids eight different kinds of powerful anti-psychotics, it's power run amok. As long as you look at youth as having deficits that need to be fixed in a coercive fashion instead of strengths that need to be built on in a collaborative fashion, abuse will happen.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "blombrowski" ---
Who's kidding who (no pun intended).
On paper do you think even the programs in New York State are about punishment? They are called Residential Treatment Centers. The problem is the culture of the programs. Much like many of the private programs, where adults feel entitled to do whatever it is in there judgment will be helpful to the youth that they serve, whether that means sexualized role play, electric shocks, confrontational group therapy, making everyone in the program admit that they are an addict even if they've never used drugs, boxing rings, giving kids eight different kinds of powerful anti-psychotics, it's power run amok. As long as you look at youth as having deficits that need to be fixed in a coercive fashion instead of strengths that need to be built on in a collaborative fashion, abuse will happen.
--- End quote ---
I very much doubt that New York will model their new approached based on those methods. I think you will see that they will take a softer more therapeutic approach. We can be assured that they will not try to incorporate the strategies which have failed, when designing a new system from the floor up. The approach is to look at what has worked and what has not worked and I think what we will see is that they will model their new system around the Missouri system and the positive aspects of the private TBS’s. I very much doubt they will adopt a model which includes electric shocks, sexualized role playing and feeding them various anti-psychotic drugs.
I realize the perception of TBS, here on fornts, is that kids get electric shocked and sexually abused and force feed medications etc. (on a daily basis, lol). I would probably think that too if all my information was derived from fornits. But the reality is that the industry is very successful and the public sector has sat up and taken notice of the progress and adopted similar programs (As we see Missouri did).
If fornits was dedicated to exposing corruption within, say, the “public school system” we would all be lead to believe that football coaches run every kid to death, every teacher is out to rape all the kids, the suicide rate is thru the roof and Columbine is your typical high school and you need to carry a weapon to survive. So I understand why you have the perception that you do. You are only seeing a small piece of the information.
...
wdtony:
Missouri is still a very lax state when it comes to laws that apply to children. If I am not mistaken, Missouri is one of the few states where children are allowed to restrain other children in state public and privately owned programs.
@ Whooter, It is not the success of these programs that people are witnessing, it is the "illusion" of success that is purported by these programs. Please correct me if I am wrong. Which program, particularly, would you say is successful?
I believe children are force fed medications on a daily basis in programs across the country. I have talked to many of the "recently released" and stories of this. I believe that children receive electro-shock "treatment" daily at the Judge Rotenberg Educational Center in Massachusetts, which is no secret. As for sexual abuse, I believe the loose regulations within this industry allow for many types of abuse to go unseen and therefore do not think it is unlikely that children are sexually abused daily in these programs. To trivialize these terrible things by acting as if they do not occur or to imply that they do not occur as frequently as people opine is to miss the point entirely.
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