The Only Instance of Abuse "Admittance" by Staff of MBA

[enola]

" W48 stated W48 was brought to MBA for W48's clinical background and to bring "more accountability to the phase leaders and to empower them.[/b]" W48 stated W48 works with AP2 to assess students throughout their stay at MBA. W48 stated the mentor sets the goals from the treatment plan.W28 was asked if W28 trained the Mentors on the treatment plans, and W28 said no. W28 stated mentors would find it difficult to read the evaluations and information from the testing, as they have not been trained to do so. W28 said it is W28's job to "translate" this information for the mentors. W28 said there is a weekly meeting on Wednesdays when various school issues are discussed and phase members are present, but said W28 could not remember a time when treatment plans were part of that meeting.W28 stated the individualized treatment plan is not intended to be a diagnostic instrument, and mentors are not “therapists." In in the same interview, W28 then described the mentors as students' "primary therapists." W8 stated, “The treatment plan is a guide for the mentors. It’s part of the therapeutic curriculum.” W28 confirmed that mentors are not licensed mental health providers. "
AP2 was asked to respond to the allegation that AP2 neglected the care of Child A, Child B, Child C and Economides by failing to develop individualized and therapeutic treatment plans to address their [redacted] abuse, [medical] or [redacted diagnosed ] issues. AP2 replied, “That’s not true. I have not had any administrative or supervisory relationship to them (the children) whatsoever. I don’t see how I could have had that. My responsibility and relationship to them is to construct a treatment plan based on a synthesis of documentation.” AP2 said MBA is not a residential treatment center where a Clinical Director has oversight of all clinicians. AP2 said, “I am not that person. That person is W48.

Thanks for your post, guest, this seems to be consistent with many of the other programs where individual therapy is provided through a private therapist who isn’t directly working for the program. This way a parent can determine if they want their child to see a therapist one on one during their stay there. Its good to see that they had a couple professionals on staff to oversee the program. The way it reads to me is that they had a process in place which was mostly run by the “mentors” and overseen by licensed therapists.

Do you see the inconsistencies?  Do you see the contradictions from their own mouths?  Or are you blind?  AP2 is obviously a mentor.  He/she says he/she has not had any "administrative  or supervisory relationship to them (the children) whatsoever. I don’t see how I could have had that. My responsibility and relationship to them is to construct a treatment plan based on a synthesis of documentation.”
Yet, W28, the licensed clinician of which you are hanging your hat on, says this:
W28 was asked if W28 trained the Mentors on the treatment plans, and W28 said no. W28 stated mentors would find it difficult to read the evaluations and information from the testing, as they have not been trained to do so. W28 said it is W28's job to "translate" this information for the mentors. W28 said there is a weekly meeting on Wednesdays when various school issues are discussed and phase members are present, but said W28 could not remember a time when treatment plans were part of that meeting.W28 stated the individualized treatment plan is not intended to be a diagnostic instrument, and mentors are not “therapists." In in the same interview, W28 then described the mentors as students' "primary therapists." W8 stated, “The treatment plan is a guide for the mentors. It’s part of the therapeutic curriculum.” W28 confirmed that mentors are not licensed mental health providers."

Unless one is used to contradictions, double talk, and downright lies, I don't understand how the above could be misinterpreted into anything other than the licensed clinician being there as a prop.

[Anonymous]

[

So the struggle here is to determine how much the licensed professional should be involved in the day to day process of the program.

No. the only question is whether or someone should be forced into therapy. I really don't see what you have to fear from agreeing to join me here to illustrate both our points.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442

You will have many advantages over the teenager who is sent to a program. You can leave at any time without consequences, you have age, knowledge and experience that few if any have when sent to a program. What could you possibly have to fear from doing this that wouldn't be much worse for a teen put through a program for sometimes years.

Whenever you decide you are ready to talk, just post there. I'm rooting for you.

[Ursus]

Some excerpts from the DHS report:

[Redacted information] [M]any children enroll at MBA with a variety of mental, emotional and behavioral challenges, including substance abuse, depression, [medical issues], learning disorders, conduct disorders, parent-child relational problems, and trauma histories resulting in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  While MBA has this information, it does not utilize substantive individualized treatment plans for students on which the staff are trained.  Instead, all students are required to participate in MBA's "emotional growth curriculum," including a series of "personal growth" experiences known as "Lifesteps," regardless of their emotional, behavioral or mental health treatment needs."

"[redacted] MBA staff identified Child A's issues as abandonment, molestation, [diagnosed] problems, not obeying Child A's parents, cussing, partying and [redacted behavior].  Staff reported that while at MBA, Child A was supposed to work on feeling "disgusting" because this is how Child A felt about [redacted] and [redacted past event].

Child A reported that while at MBA, during a Venture Lifestep that occurred on [date redacted], Child A had to wear a "French Maid's" outfit and give male clients and one staff "lap dances" in front of male and female clients and staff.  A male peer confirmed that Child A had performed a lap dance on him.  Child A said staff assigned Child A the role of "French Maid" because Child A had been [event] in Child A's past and this was a way for Child A to take responsibility for what happened.  Child A said staff directed Child A to "Go shake your ass like you do for the boys." Child A said staff called Child A a "slut" and told Child A Child A was "worthless" and said Child A "wouldn't get anywhere in life."

MBA Executive Director Sharon Bitz was asked to respond to the allegation of abuse, and stated  "No.  It's my opinion we didn't abuse Child A.  I don't believe Child A was abused on that date."

Where is this material from? Which DHS report are you accessing?

[Anonymous]

FUCK MBA BITCHES!!! ::deadhorse::

[RMA Survivor]

So the struggle here is to determine how much the licensed professional should be involved in the day to day process of the program. Should they have a licensed profession sit in on all groups when they break out for discussions 2 or 3 times a day? Should a professional see each child every day? Should the professional outline treatment plans and allow non professionals to carry them out? Should a process be developed which is overseen by professionals but run by non professionals? I think these are some of the questions I would like to see answered by comparing them to established laws and standard protocol.

This may answer part of your question, though I cannot fathom that you have not understood the point yet.
According to the State of Oregon:

  OAR 407-045-0820: Maltreatment of child, which includes but is not limited to failure to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care that is likely to endanger the child’s health or welfare. Maltreatment also includes but is not limited to the willful infliction of pain or injury, hitting, kicking, scratching, pinching, choking, spanking, pushing, slapping, twisting of head, arms, or legs, tripping, exposure to domestic violence, the use of unnecessary or excessive physical force, or other physical contact with a child inconsistent with prescribed treatment or care, the use of derogatory names, phrases or profanity, ridicule, harassment, coercion, or intimidation, that is likely to endanger the child’s health or welfare.

  OAR 407-045-0820: Threatened harm to a child, which means subjecting a child to a substantial risk of harm to the child’s health or welfare.

  OAR 407-045-0820- Negligent treatment of a child, which includes but is not limited to failure to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter or medical care that is likely to endanger the child's health or welfare.  Negligent treatment also includes, but is not limited to failure to supervise a child, or failure to intervene when a child needs assistance or care, that is likely to endanger the child's health or welfare.

Perhaps, had there been a licensed psychologist actively participating in the program, that individual would have more knowledge of the laws, and therefore prevented some of the abuse from happening.  Do you think it was an oversight or accident that the licensed party never attended lifesteps or groups?

Here is a description of abuse again, in layman's terms:

Posted by lawsprotect on 04/11/09 at 9:12PM
It seems that perhaps some of the staff, students and parents, past and present, might not understand what constitutes "abuse."

A staff member continually yelling at a student, yelling profanities at the student, yelling humiliating and degrading remarks at the student, name-calling, in Group or out, is ABUSE and against the law. It doesn't matter that you don't think it is abuse. It doesn't matter that there may be some 'good intention' and hope for a good result on the part of the staff member. It is still ABUSE and against the law.

There are other ways to bring about good results.
ABUSE is not one of them.

If you are denied sleep in a two or three or four day Life Step, except for an hour or two, this is neglect, and neglect is ABUSE and against the law. It doesn't matter if you didn't mind it, it is still ABUSE. And you have all suffered sleep deprivation, if you made any of the Life Steps.

If you were not fed meals, but perhaps little snacks on a three or four day Life Step or intervention or work study or self study . . . that is neglect, and neglect is ABUSE. It doesn't matter if you weren't hungry and it was okay with you, it is still ABUSE.

If you were forced to do physical labor for extended periods of time, such as eight hours a day or longer, hauling rocks, digging ditches, digging holes and then filling them back up, shoveling snow, etc., that is ABUSE. Most of you are, or were, minors. It is abusive to force you into physical labor for long days, and days and days on end.

If you were forced to spend weeks, and months for some, in isolation, not allowed to smile, not allowed to talk to anyone, forced to sit and be humiliated at a table by yourself, treated as if you were not even a human being and as if you didn't exist . . . that is psychological, emotional ABUSE. It doesn't matter if you were okay with it, or if you understood the 'bigger picture.' It is still ABUSE and it is against the law.

If you were forced to be abusive to others, as you were in Group, yelling at the top of your lungs at them, thinking up horrible, often untrue things to yell at them, that is ABUSE.
You were not only abused yourselves, but you were forced to abuse other students. This is against the law, even if you didn't think it was so bad. The law is the law. And the laws are there to protect you.

If you were on prescription medication and that medication was denied to you at any time, during Life Steps, when you were leaving campus, etc., that is harmful to your medical health and it is ABUSE.

If you were a minor and forced to do things of a sexual nature that you were not comfortable with, that is ABUSE.

Maybe you get the picture . . .

If you were a victim of any of the above mentioned things, you have been ABUSED.

Just because some well-meaning people think they can bring about a good result for you, they still do not have the right to ABUSE you in order to try to bring it about. ABUSE is against the law.

Again, just because you don't perceive it to be abuse, doesn't change the fact that it IS abuse.

I understand that while you are a student at MBA, you have no recourse to report the abuse. You can't make phone calls, you are not allowed to report anything like that to your parents, you have no access to a hot line . . . the only people you can report the abuse to are the abusers themselves. The fact that you are in that situation with no possibility of reporting is again, abusive to you.

Enola,

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this site.  The letter from Lawsprotect is perfect and simple.  And John Reuben does understand.  The fact he reads the same reports and comes to different conclusions shows that he understands, because his efforts to suggest these reports are not describing abuse and neglect actually confirms that he understands.  We know he is a sock puppet for the industry and trying to convince him or respond to him is pretty pointless.  It is his job to try and counter any negative press to the industry and it's amusing to watch him flail around trying to plug up a sinking ship.  

Your original post was primarily about the abuse you experienced.  And John Reuben naturally didn't want to discuss that, so he changed the subject as usual.  But I wanted to discuss it, specifically the Adoption Blame part.  I too was adopted and was told the same thing.  That it was all my fault.  That my mother was a whore, that she didn't want me, that I was to blame for something that happened seconds after my birth.  Just a few years ago I tracked her down.  My "whore" mom is still married to my father.  I have five other siblings.  They are great people, very wholesome and caring and I am now a part of their loving family again.  And when I began to think about this back in 2002, it helped me realize how indifferent the staff were to the abuse they heaped on us.  That telling a child his or her birth mother is a whore is wrong, but they were incapable of seeing this as abuse.  They really and truly thought that was going to do me some good.  They thought anything they said should be tacked on to the Ten Commandments.  They truly believed that all they said or did was truly holy and blessed.   And the reason is because they were not licensed, had no training to be counseling anyone, and from that Alex Bitz letter, it is just reinforced some more that they are clueless to the abuse they have caused and would continue to cause if they were given another chance.  Alex sounded like he got hit by the reality train.  And John Reuben, posting here as Whooter is just as incapable of accepting that abuse is all these programs can generate.  He wants to find the diamond hiding in the bullshit.  But he, like Alex and Sharon, have their head stuck so far down in to the bullshit all that comes out of their mouth is bovine excrement.   You can see how all of his posts here are so similar to those of Alex Bitz.  And like Sharon Bitz as well.  Unable to accept the reality.  They are used to playing god to children, doing no wrong.  But when the reality police show up and investigate, they get a slap of reality that abuse is abuse no matter how much they like to pretend it isn't.  They find they can't scream and spit or shout loud enough to shut up the investigators.  They can't bullshit and make up enough psychobabble nonsense to squirm their way out of it.  

And that's why this is so cool.  That we all knew, deep down, if a state investigated one of these places, they would come to no other conclusion than that abuse was systematic.  That the clowns were running the circus.  And they did.  When we were in those programs, they were The Mighty.  But oh how the mighty have fallen now.  And like dominoes, they will continue to fall one after another as state after state goes after them.  We just need to keep pushing and the rest will follow.

[enola]

Your original post was primarily about the abuse you experienced. And John Reuben naturally didn't want to discuss that, so he changed the subject as usual. But I wanted to discuss it, specifically the Adoption Blame part. I too was adopted and was told the same thing. That it was all my fault. That my mother was a whore, that she didn't want me, that I was to blame for something that happened seconds after my birth. Just a few years ago I tracked her down. My "whore" mom is still married to my father. I have five other siblings. They are great people, very wholesome and caring and I am now a part of their loving family again. And when I began to think about this back in 2002, it helped me realize how indifferent the staff were to the abuse they heaped on us. That telling a child his or her birth mother is a whore is wrong, but they were incapable of seeing this as abuse. They really and truly thought that was going to do me some good. They thought anything they said should be tacked on to the Ten Commandments. They truly believed that all they said or did was truly holy and blessed. And the reason is because they were not licensed, had no training to be counseling anyone, and from that Alex Bitz letter, it is just reinforced some more that they are clueless to the abuse they have caused and would continue to cause if they were given another chance. Alex sounded like he got hit by the reality train.

I will pm you later, as I would love to hear more about your reunion.  I think it's wonderful, and probably very healing for you.  

I have to disagree, though, with the statement that they were incapable of seeing this as abuse.  3 months before I arrived at MBA, I was in the middle of searching for my birth mother, and found out she died when she was 24 (she had me at 15).  The staff knew this.  They also knew that at my young age, I was already deeply self-loathing and clinically depressed.  After doing some research, I found this article:
http://http://www.adoptionissues.org/needs-adopted-teens.html

It felt like a punch in the stomach.  I also reached out to Alex, Sharon, Bill, and others after  left MBA, having a very hard time adjusting.  My calls went unanswered, there were no responses to my letters, nothing.  It was like I had vanished from their memory.  I had a very traumatic event happen a year after I left, and, for some reason, I felt the need for comfort from Alex or anyone from MBA.  I still received no reply.  Nothing.  A couples years later, there was a small reunion in my area , of which I attended.  I pulled Alex to the side and asked if he received any of my letters.  He responded, "which one?"  I told him the one specifically about the [traumatic event].  His response was a very cold, "yes.", then he walked away.  However, in front of the others, he was all smiles and hugs toward me.

Because every form of communication with him previously went unanswered, I wrote an 'open letter' to Alex, and Sharon, in response to his comment to me on the public board.  It does not go into as much detail as my 'abuse' letter did, but I think my point was came across pretty clearly.  I posted this on the MBA Alumni boards, as well as emailing it to both of them, directly.  Needless to say, I received no response from either one.  
My therapist told me the lack of communication on their part is an avoidance of admitting guilt, that they knew, in whatever capacity they could, that they really "messed up" with me, and that I have "ammunition", and to talk to me would, in part, be an admittance of their guilt.  They have been in touch with many others in my "dark ages" era, and I did not understand why.  It made me question myself, for years.  However, my therapist and others have told me that they knew what they were doing, and that it was wrong.  How could an adult, even with no common sense, not know that calling a 12 year old virgin a whore as well as calling her deceased birth mother one, screaming at all of us, shaming us to the breaking point, force us to say and do incredibly degrading things, and all of the crap that they pulled, was not wrong, and was only out of 'good intent'.  I can't, and don't see that, and I don't think I will ever be convinced otherwise.  These people had major issues of their own, and they vomited those issues all over the kids.  My therapist, who has an excellent reputation and has been a licensed psychologist as well as a child welfare advocate for over 37 years, told me this, "Plain and simple, those people are Sociopaths".  Some may not agree.  I do.  Here is the response letter to Alex:

Mr. Bitz,
cc: Sharon Bitz

"I am so very sorry you have to deal with the prospect of coming down from your cushy, “fluffy cloud”, and enter the “real world”. I understand the thought is very frightening, almost as frightening as having you and the other staff in my face, telling-no, screaming at-me that I was “a whore, a slut, a liar, a spoiled brat, useless, manipulative…etc.” and that I was “so worthless that not only [my] birth parents didn’t want me, but the parents that adopted [me] didn’t want me either”. A whore? At 12 years old, still a virgin? C’mon. I’m sorry, this may be graphic, but I thought that a “blow job” was actually blowing, as in blowing out a candle, on a guy’s penis. The one incidence of getting “out of agreement” with a boy, 4 years my senior, and did not involve any form of penetration. I know of many who participated in more severe forms of being “out of agreement”, yet did not deem it necessary to confess. Yet I was the manipulative whore, at 12?  Please.
Speaking of adoption, it seems that you all changed your tune. All of a sudden, there is this collaboration with the Kinship Center to give extra care to those who are adopted. “Adoptive children wonder why they were placed for adoption in the first place and can struggle with feeling worthy and good-enough, especially during the teenage years when it's natural for them to assert themselves as unique individuals," says Bitz. "We can help them work through their feelings of loss […]. So, let me get this straight: you deemed it appropriate, even “therapeutic” to call me worthless, time and time again, using my adoption as “proof” (in fact, that was my cloak in the Castle, WORTHLESS). Then, all of a sudden, Sharon preaches about the issues of self worth plaguing adoptees, and MBA’s special care and attention to adoptees. “According to Bitz and others, the teenage years present daunting developmental obstacles for children of adoption and their families.” Hmmm.
I came to MBA a scared, depressed, self loathing 12 year old girl, one who would look in the mirror and tell herself how worthless and ugly she was. One who attempted suicide 3 times before arriving there. Whether they were calls for help or attention or not, at 10-12 years old I hated myself so much that I wanted to die. That is a problem. But in your eyes, it was all a ploy to get attention, or maybe a pair of new shoes or something. That I was “playing poor me”, being a “victim”. You gave me too much credit, sir. At 10 years old, I did not have the capacity, nor the intention of anything other than escaping the pain I was in. I suppose that was too simple for you. You seemed to want more soap opera-like drama. Yet, I couldn’t give that to you, and that seemed to make you and your staff even more angry, even more vicious, even more abusive. Yes, I said abusive. The State of Oregon agrees, along with top professionals at Stanford University, Davis University, Lucille Packard Children’s Hospital, of whom I have personally spoken with, among many, many others, all of whom agree that the MBA curriculum and staff engaged in “atrociously” abusive behavior.
It’s almost sad to see your “project” your anger towards me and others, and not practice the “tools” that MBA has been preaching for 20 years. The snide sarcasm oozing out of your comment to me on the board is unmistakable, and honestly, a bit childish. Yes, “Sarcasm and Cynicism is the result of broken dreams”. I understand, your dream is broken. I’m also reminded of my favorite, “The Liar’s Punishment is not the he/she is not believed, but that he/she cannot believe anyone else.” Read the articles:  ‘Unsurprisingly, [Sharon] Bitz attacked the validity of the report.’ “We know that some current students have made a conscious decision to lie about our school, hoping that it will be closed as a result, and that they would then be sent back home," Bitz told TIME. "We would never ask a student to give a lap dance," Bitz told the paper. Oh really? C’mon now. "All methods of therapy are done in a supportive atmosphere with trained professionals and the intent to raise self-awareness and self-worth," said Bitz. Then what’s with the constant reinforcement of telling young kids that they are worthless? What is happening here is, among other things, called Justice. For those who are more spiritually inclined, it’s called Karma. Whether it is because you truly believe you are being falsely accused, stripped of your dignity, or because deep, deep down you know that you went a bit overboard, yet your punishment does not fit the crime, you are going through a very similar process that some of us, the students, went through at MBA. It’s a bit like you have no voice, isn’t it? Like you are screaming inside and no one is listening, right? Like the “powers that be” don’t understand you, won’t listen to you, and are convinced you are something that you are not, right? I know that feeling very well, as do many others that went to MBA.
I am glad that some students had positive, life changing experiences at your school. For those of whom credit MBA with saving their lives, I tip my hat to them. My experience, however, was soul-killing, nightmare-producing, self-esteem-stripping, and, to put it in layman’s terms, utterly horrible. I made great friends. I am really good at finding relevant quotes in any given situation. I went to London. I…well…hmmm…I think that’s about it for the “good” part of it. Oh, I liked the hiking and cross-country skiing as well.
Again, I am sorry that you are fearful of joining the rest of the unemployment-line-standing real world. I’m guessing, however, that you have some nice money to sit on from the near $80,000 tuition per student, per year. Or at least ASSPEN-oh, sorry, that’s 1 ‘S’-is giving you a nice pension for your troubles. Yes, I believe sarcasm and cynicism, when used appropriately, helps to ease the pain of those broken dreams; for me, at least, many of them being broken by MBA. And I think sarcasm is just funny (think Steve Carrell, John Stewart, Stephen Colbert).
Here’s some quotes you might want to consider. If you would like to look up more, brainyquote.com and thinkexist.com are great quote sites.
“Child abuse casts a shadow the length of a lifetime.”~Herbert Ward
“What is evil? Killing is evil, lying is evil, slandering is evil, abuse is evil, gossip is evil: envy is evil, hatred is evil, to cling to false doctrine is evil; all these things are evil.”~Buddha
“Anyone entrusted with power will abuse it if not also animated with the love of truth and virtue, no matter whether he be a prince, or one of the people.”~Jean de La Fontaine
“When predominant selfishness and conceit there is no attachment to self or anything else.”~Aesop
“Be impeccable with your word”~Don Miguel Ruiz (The 4 Agreements author)
“Little prigs and three-quarter madmen may have the conceit that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sakes”~Friedrich Nietzsche

Gosh, reading this over again, I realize that this was just the tip of the ice berg. So yes, I am sitting here, rejoicing with many others.
Good luck, sir. I hope that your re-entry into the “real world” goes a bit more smoothly than mine did."


I may post the first letter, the 'Abuse Part 1' letter later, as I become more comfortable with this site.  It is comforting and cathartic to have people here that actually understand and can relate to what I went through.

[RMA Survivor]

I'm not even sure what I meant by incapable because it is so hard to read other people's minds and know their true intentions.

I guess if I had to describe what I meant, it would have to incorporate several factors.  

These were quacks.  They had no training to be doing any of this stuff.  The ones who were part of the system way back when, who founded these schools all came out of existing programs like CEDU and Rocky Mountain Academy.  They considered people like Mel Wasserman and all the later School Directors to be gods, and they took what they said as gospel.  So you could argue, they were not too bright to begin with, many if not most of them had criminal backgrounds, drug and alcohol issues and were probably easily manipulated.  And as they started working the program from their end, as staff, they had to go in to it figuring it was good stuff.  Sure, many might have done it initially for the paycheck, but you have to consider many of them probably weren't too knowledgeable about any of it enough to question what they were doing.  We are talking about people with little to no education, college or even High School.  These were not members of Mensa or Harvard graduates possessed of great intellects.  They were hired through what I believe was a very simple process that looked for people who would go along with things without much questioning.  It has been shown that they sent out special questionnaires asking specifically about their position on corporal punishments and so on.  Their answers were then used to gauge them.  I think to gauge them on whether they would be able to look the other way when they saw what their instincts might tell them was abuse.  Think of police officers.  Many officers today are fully complicit in brutalizing citizens, using tasers in an inappropriate manner and then covering it up afterward, each officer providing cover for the others.  And I have known quite a few police officers and they made it quite clear that there is a weeding-out process whereby the police don't want holier-than-thou types who are going to mess with the system they enjoy. It's not that people don't try and become good cops, but that once in, their ability to do good is hampered by those who prefer a different system, one without accountability, one that reinforces their feeling of power.    Are there good cops?  Sure.  Were there good staff members?  Yes.  Everyone agrees that each program had staff that were "better" than others.  But did those staff who were better, speak out?  No.  And you have to ask why?  I think it is because their moral compass was already not functioning too well before they got hired and after being hired the program itself screwed with it even more.  Much as we were screwed with.  There was so much psychobable going on, and I think it was designed to keep us in line as much as to keep them in line.  It was about control and getting people to buy in.  And I think staff bought in.  

So my argument here, is that yes, some certainly had to know it was abuse and recognized it as such, though they stayed quiet and didn't rock the boat or lose the paycheck.  But I also think there are those who are more prone to being bullies, enjoy power, like to exercise it over others and in such a situation, that kind of setting, seeing that there is no accountability, can go way overboard.  Which I think is what happened.  Did they know what they were doing was abuse?  Maybe.  But I think some of them, likely the ones who were "Power Staff" really believed like Alex and Sharon seem to, that everything they did was right.  And from my experience at Rocky Mountain Academy back in the mid 80's, this was the culture they created for themselves.  One where they had their own Gods or Guru's, people they looked up to and then wanted to emulate and become.  They fed off each others latest psychobable notions of how to fix kids.  They came up with one catch phrase after another to hurl at teens.  Basically it was made up as they went along, gradually becoming more and more abusive I think as they refined it, almost working in competition to outdo each other and come up with the killer themes for Raps or Propheets/Life Steps.  They wanted to be Top Dog.  Not all of them wanted it, but many of them sought the power.  The environment they created, based on the strange ideas of Mel Wasserman, the Synanon, LifeSpring and EST cultures and their own limited imaginations was one that reinforced action over accountability.  And eventually I think they just saw everything they did as right and proper and good, that they could not commit any wrongdoing because all they did was righteous.  So maybe in the beginning, they might have been able to see abuse and be capable of questioning it, but eventually I feel they no longer could.  

And then think of the context.  These were people telling themselves they were saving kids.  They fashioned themselves as heroes.  And in doing so, put themselves on a pedestal and patted each other on the backs for the good they believed they were dishing out.  And beliefs are a hard thing to discard once you've held them long enough.  So Alex may eventually come around to seeing that he was abusing people for years now that he has been told by the State of Oregon that this was the case.  I don't think he could ever accept it coming from a former student, because he probably can't accept right now that his power is gone.  He held so much power and authority over you and others that he is in denial about the actions he took.  And Sharon suggesting that a few bad kids just wanted to lie to get it all shut down so they could go home and do more drugs and party is the same thing.  These people were so deep in to a self-reinforcing atmosphere that rewarded them for basically creating greater levels of abuse, coming up with radical, yet totally unfounded methods for dealing with troubled teens.  This was what they were used to.  They became the guru's with all the answers.  Creating it all themselves, just as God created the universe, the Alex's and Sharon's felt they were Gods creating something amazing and powerful and helpful and that's how they saw themselves.  I don't think they were capable of seeing themselves in any other way.  They truly thought they could do no wrong and that is why they can't accept that they did do wrong.  The State of Oregon clearly hasn't convinced them.  Or... It is possible they don't want to admit anything because the allegations of abuse could be followed by lawsuits?

And can you imagine what it would feel like to suddenly realize you did abuse hundreds or even thousands of teens?  To realize you were a monster?  That kids who later committed suicide may have done so because of things you did to them?  What would a normal person, capable of self-reflection do upon realizing this?  

By the way, before and after Rocky Mountain Academy I worked in a Direct Care Home for Autistic Children.  After a few months I saw a fellow staff member physically abuse a child.  Actual injury.  I called the police and filed a report and lost my job the next day.  Of course the child was incapable of speech, so the officers investigating could not understand how to conduct an interview to determine if injury or assault had taken place.  But whereas such homes and staff are required by Federal Law to report any suspected abuse, and I did so, reporting it doesn't always work and getting fired is often quite likely.  And I don't think it would have been any different at any of these programs, most of which are not covered by Federal Laws and certainly little state oversight.  

Also, I would be happy to share my reunion story with you.  It was pretty damn cool.  And the first time in my life I ever experienced unconditional love.

[Whooter]

Perhaps, had there been a licensed psychologist actively participating in the program, that individual would have more knowledge of the laws, and therefore prevented some of the abuse from happening. Do you think it was an oversight or accident that the licensed party never attended lifesteps or groups?

I agree with this, thanks for the information.  I believe this was part of my question .....was how much professional (licensed) oversight is needed?  We certainly couldn’t expect there to be 10 Therapists covering each group break out.  But if the therapists that they did have were given more authority and access to the day to day operations then many of these abuses would be avoided.  As far as staying up all night, shovelling snow etc. I don’t see this as abusive as long as it is not excessive.  Better oversight would keep these reasonable.  The yelling and screaming should be handled by letting go the staff who participate and/or encourage this type of behavior.



...

[Troll Control]

I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says.  He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.  

Specifically, he uses Juvenile Justice funds to put kids convicted of crimes who were in jail into Aspen programs where they can mingle freely with your children while receiving no therapy and have nobody watching them, like the kid from MBA who raped a little girl there due to the lack of supervision and mixing convicted criminals with more or less normal kids.

He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.  he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.

[Ursus]

The yelling and screaming should be handled by letting go the staff who participate and/or encourage this type of behavior.

Well, then... I gather you would be referring to the school founders and chief execs, eh? And Oregon done did that, by "letting them go," that is. So to speak.  

[enola]

I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says.  He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.  
[...]
He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.  he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.

Actually, I have been reading some--ok, actually way too many--of his posts, and I appreciate his comments.  It only proves my opinion (along with many others) that these people, are sociopaths http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathic_personality_disorder , incapable of feeling remorse or guilt, from most of the staff who run these programs to the money-hungry corporations that control them.  In fact, ASPEN is a branch from Mitt Romney's CRC Health (see http://http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091115/NEWS0107/911150428/-1/rss )
"CRC Health
In 2006, Aspen Education Group was purchased by the even larger CRC Health Group, an arm of the Mitt Romney-founded private investment firm Bain Capital Inc. Since the merger, though, CRC’s performance has been lackluster."

For anyone who claims to be a parent, or care about kids, to even consider posting some of the posts that this guy has, i.e. typing "lol" in a thread about a child's death-- http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29128&p=350434#p350434 and taking the focus away from the fact that a child died, one of many, in one of these programs, is disgusting.  Like I said, it proves my point.  Sociopath.

So let him post.  Perhaps the moderators can come up with some kind of warning label attached to his posts, like  WARNING: Posted By Industry Idiot!

[Whooter]

I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says.  He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.  
[...]
He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.  he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.

Actually, I have been reading some--ok, actually way too many--of his posts, and I appreciate his comments.  It only proves my opinion (along with many others) that these people, are sociopaths http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathic_personality_disorder , incapable of feeling remorse or guilt, from most of the staff who run these programs to the money-hungry corporations that control them.  In fact, ASPEN is a branch from Mitt Romney's CRC Health (see http://http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091115/NEWS0107/911150428/-1/rss )
"CRC Health
In 2006, Aspen Education Group was purchased by the even larger CRC Health Group, an arm of the Mitt Romney-founded private investment firm Bain Capital Inc. Since the merger, though, CRC’s performance has been lackluster."

For anyone who claims to be a parent, or care about kids, to even consider posting some of the posts that this guy has, i.e. typing "lol" in a thread about a child's death-- http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29128&p=350434#p350434 and taking the focus away from the fact that a child died, one of many, in one of these programs, is disgusting.  Like I said, it proves my point.  Sociopath.

So let him post.  Perhaps the moderators can come up with some kind of warning label attached to his posts, like  WARNING: Posted By Industry Idiot!

Thank you Enola.  There was a discussion awhile back where people here were adamant that Educational consultants couldn’t possible tell if a child had ODD or ADHD, or any disorder  without first meeting the child and many here felt it was criminal that they place kids in programs based on such little information and knowledge of the child.  But you have shown that this type of diagnostics is typical and accepted here on fornits.  

...and on top of that you are suggesting that I be labelled somehow to warn people about what “you” have decide I am.  I bet you would be the first one to cry a river if you had to wear a sign around your neck in a program reading “Sociopath” or “Whore” etc.  .  But this is your first order of business if you gained the power seat.

You seem to be no better than those you criticize in the program......Interesting isn’t it?



...

[Anonymous]

(Whooter has proved himself invalid)

C'mon back buddy. We know it's scary to you but believe it or not there are people that care about you getting well and feeling good about yourself.

If you can't commit to the whole program what can you commit to? 2... 3 posts? I know you can do that.

[Anonymous]

We're right over here when you want to take a look at yourself Whooter.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&p=353043#p353043

[RMA Survivor]

I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Whooter says.  He lies a lot and has a financial stake in programs.  
[...]
He has no education or background in psychology and has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.  he just tries to spin things to look "less bad" by providing false analogies, false testimony (posting as dozens of personas) and false "facts and figures" that were generated by marketing teams instead of clinicians. He's a phony and should not be listened to for any advice or opinion.

Actually, I have been reading some--ok, actually way too many--of his posts, and I appreciate his comments.  It only proves my opinion (along with many others) that these people, are sociopaths http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathic_personality_disorder , incapable of feeling remorse or guilt, from most of the staff who run these programs to the money-hungry corporations that control them.  In fact, ASPEN is a branch from Mitt Romney's CRC Health (see http://http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091115/NEWS0107/911150428/-1/rss )
"CRC Health
In 2006, Aspen Education Group was purchased by the even larger CRC Health Group, an arm of the Mitt Romney-founded private investment firm Bain Capital Inc. Since the merger, though, CRC’s performance has been lackluster."

For anyone who claims to be a parent, or care about kids, to even consider posting some of the posts that this guy has, i.e. typing "lol" in a thread about a child's death-- http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29128&p=350434#p350434 and taking the focus away from the fact that a child died, one of many, in one of these programs, is disgusting.  Like I said, it proves my point.  Sociopath.

So let him post.  Perhaps the moderators can come up with some kind of warning label attached to his posts, like  WARNING: Posted By Industry Idiot!

Thank you Enola.  There was a discussion awhile back where people here were adamant that Educational consultants couldn’t possible tell if a child had ODD or ADHD, or any disorder  without first meeting the child and many here felt it was criminal that they place kids in programs based on such little information and knowledge of the child.  But you have shown that this type of diagnostics is typical and accepted here on fornits.  

...and on top of that you are suggesting that I be labelled somehow to warn people about what “you” have decide I am.  I bet you would be the first one to cry a river if you had to wear a sign around your neck in a program reading “Sociopath” or “Whore” etc.  .  But this is your first order of business if you gained the power seat.

You seem to be no better than those you criticize in the program......Interesting isn’t it?



...

I believe she has cried enough about having to wear such signs or be labeled as such in these abusive programs.  That's why she is a survivor. Normally I would say you missed the point of the thread yet again.  However, by calling her a whore again, I would say you really did stick with the thread for once.  Somehow it just doesn't improve your image.  I guess because you like the idea of making girls cry and calling them whores.  No, not a guess... I am certain that is the reason why your image is so poor.  

I think people want to label you because you are clearly of the sort of ilk that would find such activity acceptable.  As therapeutic.  But the followup comments showed that everyone sees you for what you are.  An industry hack, with no sense of empathy for the pain of others.  To you it is a joke.  To us, you are a joke.  You do validate our points.  Every time you post, people new to this site see what the industry represents.  What you represent.  The abuse you and they sell as therapy.  All of your posts are about supporting continued abuse, or covering up abuse, or as someone just said, basically portraying abuse as minimal, just a few bad apples, or whatever mindless drivel of an excuse you can give to deflect criticism on the industry you make a living from.  And of course there is the worn out "Blame the teens!"  You love that one, don't you?  

Oh, and don't forget to suggest that Enola faked those Alex letters.  That's another favorite of yours.  Or maybe suggest she prove they are authentic?  I'm really surprised you didn't demand proof.  But as usual, you did draw a dumb parallel by using another thread, with no link, to bolster a petty argument suggesting that programs trying to diagnose behavioral disorders over the phone or internet is in the same league with people identifying you as a blithering idiot and industry hack.  It don't take a rocket surgeon to size you up.  But a child being placed in to therapy should receive the best diagnosis by a well trained professional in person, and in every instance.  No exceptions!