Author Topic: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable  (Read 2417 times)

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Offline Whooter

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2009, 02:04:43 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Analogy fails. The car sales industry is heavily regulated. For example, if they knowingly sell a used car that has unsafe brakes or has a factory recall on it, yes they are legally liable.

I'm sure you'd rather be talking about cars and doctors then dead kids and irresponsible edcons.

Auntie Em

Hey, AuntieEm, dont get pissed because you cant support your position.  Its easy to say "all" programs are abusive and everyone should go to jail.  but you haven’t explained how you will implement your solution and how it will be handled by the courts.  You are just blowing off steam I think, not thinking it through all the way.
Maybe you could talk about regulating the industry which requires that information gets fed back to the EdCons so that they can make a safe referal or something along those lines.  But anyone can start a referral business today and how would they know which schools are good or bad if there are no standards in place or not all schools are forthcoming with information?  Some places may make their errors public and others may sweep them under the rug.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2009, 02:05:18 PM »
Or this:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"
I was arrested several times in Boston...

Funny, so was John Reuben.  He was arrested several times in Boston as well.  On the same dates TheWho was arrested.  Coincidence?  Hardly.

Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?

Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2009, 02:09:30 PM »
There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for.  Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional  who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for.   Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2009, 02:32:01 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for.  Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional  who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for.   Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
Oh, I'm sure they are being held accountable, in the most painful fashion, if they aren't already doing it themselves.

But this really doesn't address the OP of this thread, namely, that the Ed Con "profession" is still, in this day and age, legally pimping for programs at the cost of the flesh and blood of many a family. Literally, in some cases. And they are not being held legally accountable for it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2009, 02:38:28 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for.  Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional  who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for.   Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?

And how do parents determine who is a reputable professional ? We ended up with a place with a guy faking a medical degree, a horrible program and several professionals were referring to the program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2009, 04:21:38 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Hey, AuntieEm, dont get pissed because you cant support your position.  Its easy to say "all" programs are abusive and everyone should go to jail.  but you haven’t explained how you will implement your solution and how it will be handled by the courts.  You are just blowing off steam I think, not thinking it through all the way.
Maybe you could talk about regulating the industry which requires that information gets fed back to the EdCons so that they can make a safe referal or something along those lines.  But anyone can start a referral business today and how would they know which schools are good or bad if there are no standards in place or not all schools are forthcoming with information?  Some places may make their errors public and others may sweep them under the rug.

You are not accurately quoting my position. I never disagreed with you about the need for reporting and information about abuse, maltreatment, neglect, and death in programs. A national database of such information is a key provision in HR911 that has been opposed by the industry and the edcons. If the edcons are serious about wanting this information, then they should be advocating for it. Your post as much as says that edcons have no way of knowing if they are placing children in "good" or "bad" facilities--so how can they ethically place them in programs at all?

I have been a strong proponent of regulation and accountability. I will continue to assert that educational consultants must be accountable for their role in placing children in abusive facilities. At present, there appears to be little or no moral and ethical accountability among edcons, let alone legal accountability. If the laws aren't there to support it, then we should pass them.  I opened the conversation; I did not suggest I knew the solution. We have a moral obligation to protect children from abuse, and the cozy relationship between edcons and the industry invites a blurring of moral lines.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2009, 04:26:05 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for.  Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional  who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for.   Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?

Part of the research is hiring and EdCon.  If your son had diabetes you may try to educate yourself on line with webMD, but you would want to consult a professional who could guide you thru the maze of options and select the proper treatment.  This is what an EdCon does.  Plus many times there isnt alot of time to do research so you need to depend even more on the EdCon.

You have to remember the 99.9995% of the kids do extremely well.  We/fornits mostly focuses on the few that dont do well or are abused by the system.  So yes we need to hold people accountable but we dont want to hamper those who are benefiting from the industry.
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Offline AuntieEm2

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2009, 04:55:01 PM »
Using an education consultant is "consulting a professional"? Since they are not required to have any professional credentials in children's mental health, social work, or education, they're only as professional as they claim to be.

The person who works on your car at the dealership is required to have more professional  training than an edcon recommending 2-3 years of "therapy" for your child. The person who cuts your hair is better trained and regulated than an edcon choosing your child's therapists and teachers.

Auntie Em
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2009, 05:10:49 PM »
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Using an education consultant is "consulting a professional"? Since they are not required to have any professional credentials in children's mental health, social work, or education, they're only as professional as they claim to be.

The person who works on your car at the dealership is required to have more professional  training than an edcon recommending 2-3 years of "therapy" for your child. The person who cuts your hair is better trained and regulated than an edcon choosing your child's therapists and teachers.

Auntie Em

You may not agree with it but thats what they call themselves.  There is no regulation that I am aware of.  You can become a professional boxer without a college degree also.  What you expect from an EdCon is to help you through the maze of choices based on the particular issue your child has and his therapist recommends.  They allow the parent to research the few they recommend instead of the thousands available.  So the parents are involved in the research process.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2009, 05:44:00 PM »
Lazy again, Reuben.  Professional boxers are licensed, and cannot fight in sanctioned bouts if their licenses are removed. Totally irrelevant comparison, and as usual, incorrect.  Nice work, Johnny.  Or rather absence thereof.  Again.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2009, 05:52:12 PM »
Quote from: "Ajax13"
Lazy again, Reuben.  Professional boxers are licensed, and cannot fight in sanctioned bouts if their licenses are removed. Totally irrelevant comparison, and as usual, incorrect.  Nice work, Johnny.  Or rather absence thereof.  Again.

Of course you do.. lets take a look at what was said:
You can become a professional boxer without a college degree also"

No "license" was mentioned.lol.. another reason why I post here, to keep it honest.  You try to twist peoples words, Ajax13.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2009, 06:25:15 PM »
TheWho is a criminal with an extensive arrest record, which he partially copped to here.  A background check reveals TheWho is not honest about the extent of his own personal criminal history.  Aside from the convictions, he's been arrested for some nasty things too.  I think being a trust fund baby with a lot of money got him out of some molestation charges, but he was convicted of other charges too.  Why won't he be honest about his own personal criminal record?  Why would he be honest about anything else?  He's a fraud, plain and simple.  Until he comes clean and explains some of these very serious cases he's been hit with, nobody is going to believe him about anything else.

His father was a bigwig lawyer and got him out of some serious trouble, some surrounding inappropriate conduct with children.  Some charges his daddy couldn't get him off.  Why is TheWho trying to pretend he's something he isn't?  Why is he avoiding his own criminal conduct while accusing others, like Psy, of being criminals?  A quick glance at his arrest record shows he's projecting onto Psy when he accuses him of molesting children.  He's got a real sickness and should be in treatment for offenders and not posting on a message board accusing others of what he himself has been charged with.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2009, 06:54:29 PM »
Fornits members want to hold everyone else accountable except the child who put himself in a program.  Your fornits people should pull your heads out of your fucking assholes.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2009, 07:02:46 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho is a criminal with an extensive arrest record, which he partially copped to here.  A background check reveals TheWho is not honest about the extent of his own personal criminal history.  Aside from the convictions, he's been arrested for some nasty things too.  I think being a trust fund baby with a lot of money got him out of some molestation charges, but he was convicted of other charges too.  Why won't he be honest about his own personal criminal record?  Why would he be honest about anything else?  He's a fraud, plain and simple.  Until he comes clean and explains some of these very serious cases he's been hit with, nobody is going to believe him about anything else.

His father was a bigwig lawyer and got him out of some serious trouble, some surrounding inappropriate conduct with children.  Some charges his daddy couldn't get him off.  Why is TheWho trying to pretend he's something he isn't?  Why is he avoiding his own criminal conduct while accusing others, like Psy, of being criminals?  A quick glance at his arrest record shows he's projecting onto Psy when he accuses him of molesting children.  He's got a real sickness and should be in treatment for offenders and not posting on a message board accusing others of what he himself has been charged with.

If you expect children to hold themselves accountable, surely you can account for the contents of the above post, no?  []u]t's hear your explanation of why you have an FBI number.  Lead by example and take responsibility for your own extensive criminal record.[/u]ogram supporters like to call other people names and cut them down, but they often hide dirty little secrets, don't they?  DON'T THEY, Whooter?  Well, in your case, the dirty secrets aren't so little I suppose.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Holding Educational Consultants Legally Accountable
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2009, 10:07:31 PM »
There is a slim to none chance fornits members will give an honest response why they were sent to a program.  It is easy to blame educational consultants, parents, teachers, program staff, police, state agencies and the mailman.
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