Author Topic: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?  (Read 20073 times)

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Offline Pile of Dead Kids

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Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
« Reply #120 on: June 10, 2010, 02:31:29 AM »
Quote from: "4eva1243"
Realistically though being away from the environment I placed myself in did save my life.

This is the second lie, a backup of sorts for the first: that, well, if 'the program' didn't save your life then being out of the home did. This, too, is abjectly false although that's harder to prove. Suffice it to say that it didn't save Karlye Newman's, and SCL was closed in 2009 due to precipitously declining enrollment; too many people knew too much truth about WWASP.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
« Reply #121 on: June 10, 2010, 06:51:11 AM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Quote from: "4eva1243"
Realistically though being away from the environment I placed myself in did save my life.

This is the second lie, a backup of sorts for the first: that, well, if 'the program' didn't save your life then being out of the home did. This, too, is abjectly false although that's harder to prove. Suffice it to say that it didn't save Karlye Newman's, and SCL was closed in 2009 due to precipitously declining enrollment; too many people knew too much truth about WWASP.

So what you are trying to say is survivors lie?  We cant really rely on their stories or first hand accounts as fact?  So if we cant trust them then how do we know what is truth or lie or if the program was helpful or not?  Should we take the parents perspective of whether they did well or not?

Just wondering.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2010, 10:49:02 AM »
Just provide some clinical trials that prove programs are effective at what they advertise they "treat" or "cure" (e.g. several programs claim to "cure homosexuality") and put all the speculation to rest.  These programs have never, ever, in any way, been proven effective at helping anyone with anything.

As far as anecdotal evidence is concerned, I'd trust someone's account who has been in a program over someone who has not every time.  I've seen what goes on behind closed doors at a few of these shitpits and it closely resembles much of what users post here about their experience.

Now, what Whooter posts about programs has yet to be verified by any other sources or studies, so I surely can't believe him, especially considering how many lies he's already been caught perpetrating here.  He can basically be disregarded because he presents what he presents here in order to make money (click the links in my signature that show Whooter bragging about his 'fiduciary interest' in Aspen Education and his seminar he delivered in Chicago about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry').  He's just in it for the profit.  Don't fall for his nonsense.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2010, 11:01:45 AM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Just provide some clinical trials that prove programs are effective at what they advertise they "treat" or "cure" (e.g. several programs claim to "cure homosexuality") and put all the speculation to rest.  These programs have never, ever, in any way, been proven effective at helping anyone with anything.
If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

    PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

    After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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    Offline TimScrivener

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    Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
    « Reply #124 on: June 10, 2010, 01:40:57 PM »
    Quote from: "Guest"
    Before you start your explanation, I hope you consider refraining from using the term "brainwashing", since this is not accurate.

    If 1,000 kids say a program is just fine, and 4 kids complain that it was abusive, what would you believe? That is the choice parents have today and why the 'anti program movement' is nothing more than a few websites and the crazy people who run them.


    Just drink the victim of abuse Koolaid and look the other way. Stop asking such religious nutbag questions. You've been brainwashed.
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    Offline Anne Bonney

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    Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
    « Reply #125 on: June 10, 2010, 01:43:51 PM »
    Quote from: "TimScrivener"
    Quote from: "Guest"
    Before you start your explanation, I hope you consider refraining from using the term "brainwashing", since this is not accurate.

    If 1,000 kids say a program is just fine, and 4 kids complain that it was abusive, what would you believe? That is the choice parents have today and why the 'anti program movement' is nothing more than a few websites and the crazy people who run them.


    Just drink the victim of abuse Koolaid and look the other way. Stop asking such religious nutbag questions. You've been brainwashed.


    Do try to stay on topic.  This thread isn't referring to the religious nutbags.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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    Offline TimScrivener

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    Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
    « Reply #126 on: June 10, 2010, 01:46:37 PM »
    Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
    Quote from: "TimScrivener"
    Quote from: "Guest"
    Before you start your explanation, I hope you consider refraining from using the term "brainwashing", since this is not accurate.

    If 1,000 kids say a program is just fine, and 4 kids complain that it was abusive, what would you believe? That is the choice parents have today and why the 'anti program movement' is nothing more than a few websites and the crazy people who run them.


    Just drink the victim of abuse Koolaid and look the other way. Stop asking such religious nutbag questions. You've been brainwashed.


    Do try to stay on topic.  This thread isn't referring to the religious nutbags.

    So sorry, us religious nutbags do these things all the time.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Anne Bonney

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    Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
    « Reply #127 on: June 10, 2010, 01:47:44 PM »
    Quote from: "TimScrivener"
    Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
    Quote from: "TimScrivener"
    Quote from: "Guest"
    Before you start your explanation, I hope you consider refraining from using the term "brainwashing", since this is not accurate.

    If 1,000 kids say a program is just fine, and 4 kids complain that it was abusive, what would you believe? That is the choice parents have today and why the 'anti program movement' is nothing more than a few websites and the crazy people who run them.


    Just drink the victim of abuse Koolaid and look the other way. Stop asking such religious nutbag questions. You've been brainwashed.


    Do try to stay on topic.  This thread isn't referring to the religious nutbags.

    So sorry, us religious nutbags do these things all the time.

    I know!!!  It's really weird. I wish you'd stop.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    traight, St. Pete, early 80s
    AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

    The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

    Offline Whooter

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    Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
    « Reply #128 on: June 10, 2010, 02:04:50 PM »
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

      PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

      After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."

      I think we agree here, Ursus.  Most parents check them out and get an idea of how they work.  Speaking to other parents who have been through the process helps also.  I toured the grounds and spoke to kids at random, had lunch with the kids, spoke to other parents.  This gives you the sense of how the place is run.



      ...
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Anne Bonney

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      Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
      « Reply #129 on: June 10, 2010, 02:13:10 PM »
      Quote from: "Whooter"
      Quote from: "Ursus"
      If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

        PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

        After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."

        I think we agree here, Ursus.  Most parents check them out and get an idea of how they work.  Speaking to other parents who have been through the process helps also.  I toured the grounds and spoke to kids at random, had lunch with the kids, spoke to other parents.  This gives you the sense of how the place is run.


        No.  No it really doesn't.
        « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
        traight, St. Pete, early 80s
        AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

        The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

        Offline Ursus

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        Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
        « Reply #130 on: June 10, 2010, 02:15:22 PM »
        Quote from: "Whooter"
        Quote from: "Ursus"
        If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

          PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

          After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."
          I think we agree here, Ursus.  Most parents check them out and get an idea of how they work.  Speaking to other parents who have been through the process helps also.  I toured the grounds and spoke to kids at random, had lunch with the kids, spoke to other parents.  This gives you the sense of how the place is run.
          Your response did not even address the concern of PROOF that these places cause no harm. Parental opinion does not constitute "proof."
          « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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          Offline Whooter

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          Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
          « Reply #131 on: June 10, 2010, 02:25:55 PM »
          Quote from: "Ursus"
          Quote from: "Whooter"
          Quote from: "Ursus"
          If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

            PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

            After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."

            I think we agree here, Ursus.  Most parents check them out and get an idea of how they work.  Speaking to other parents who have been through the process helps also.  I toured the grounds and spoke to kids at random, had lunch with the kids, spoke to other parents.  This gives you the sense of how the place is run.
            Your response did not even address the concern of PROOF that these places cause no harm. Parental opinion does not constitute "proof."

            Not sure anyone could provide "proof".  How would someone provide proof that Chemotherapy will not harm a child?  What a parent needs to do is understand the process and get an idea of how it works and what results can be expected.  Most of this can be obtained with what I outlined in my previous post along with reviewing the study results.



            ...
            « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

            Offline Ursus

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            Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
            « Reply #132 on: June 10, 2010, 03:05:34 PM »
            Quote from: "Whooter"
            Quote from: "Ursus"
            Quote from: "Whooter"
            Quote from: "Ursus"
            If I were a parent considering one of these programs, I'd also be concerned about the following:

              PROOF that these places cause NO HARM[/list]

              After all, isn't that the credo for behavioral health professionals? "First, Do No Harm."
              I think we agree here, Ursus.  Most parents check them out and get an idea of how they work.  Speaking to other parents who have been through the process helps also.  I toured the grounds and spoke to kids at random, had lunch with the kids, spoke to other parents.  This gives you the sense of how the place is run.
              Your response did not even address the concern of PROOF that these places cause no harm. Parental opinion does not constitute "proof."
              Not sure anyone could provide "proof".  How would someone provide proof that Chemotherapy will not harm a child?  What a parent needs to do is understand the process and get an idea of how it works and what results can be expected.  Most of this can be obtained with what I outlined in my previous post along with reviewing the study results.
              The credo of behavioral health professionals is "First, Do No Harm." If these programs cannot hold themselves to that standard, then they should cease and desist from referring to themselves as behavioral health facilities or as providing behavioral health services. At best, and from an ethical business standpoint, these places really shouldn't hold themselves out to the public as being anything more than "experimental" in nature.

              With regard to your chemotherapy analogy, as part and parcel of the process of undergoing chemotherapy, some health professional will sit down with the patient and go through an explanation of expected results, which include undesirable side effects, potential long-term damage, etc.

              Does anyone from these TTI programs sit down with the parents beforehand and go through an explanation of potential program side effects? Of the PTSD? Possible long-term PTSD? Of what may happen when a kid's psyche is ripped apart, but never put back together again? Or of the potential for unwanted and unwarranted additional and incidental abuse brought about by everyone in the program having abnormal definitions of boundaries? Namely, that these boundaries are substantially and unnaturally depressed?
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              Offline DannyB II

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              Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
              « Reply #133 on: June 10, 2010, 03:43:32 PM »
              ...
              « Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 01:34:23 AM by DannyB II »
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              Offline 4eva1243

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              Re: Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is t
              « Reply #134 on: June 10, 2010, 09:12:14 PM »
              Thanks for that. If i can remember correctly the first amendment THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH people. OMG! God forbid someone throw politics into this conversation. Since we already have the ball rolling on religion, Im just going to throw this one out there. And you are correct in stating that the program didn't save Karlyes' life and that is very unfortunate.
              « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »