Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Anne Bonney]

People, for example Ursus, provide online articles to substantiate his statements.  So far, you have not done that.

I made no "statements".  I stated an opinion.

Look, it's what I  believe.  Me. Myself.  I'm not saying it's absolutely true.  I'm saying that *I* believe it to be absolutely true, based on past discussions here between Whooter, myself and many others.  That's all.

[Anne Bonney]

People, for example Ursus, provide online articles to substantiate his statements. So far, you have not done that.  

What happened to the snotty, "When you post verifiable *something*, I'm all ears"?  Edit it out before I grabbed the quote??

Believe me darlin'.  I'm not sitting around fretting about whether or not you believe me or even have a desire to read or listen to anything I say or write.

[Anne Bonney]

People, for example Ursus, provide online articles to substantiate his statements. So far, you have not done that.

Last edited by Joel on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:32 pm, edited 5 times in total.





You had to edit those two sentences 5 times??

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Anne Bonney]

Do you agree confronting a parent over his son's death due to negligence/program placement, without verifiable proof, is messed up?  Nevertheless, I don't think confronting a father, in the manner people do on this website, is not cool.  It is mean and cruel.

Whooter?  No, I don't.  After all the shit he's said here, to survivors, I have absolutely zero qualms about confronting him.  At all.  :waaaa:


He can take a giant fucking leap of a tall fucking building for all I care.
 :twofinger:    :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

[Whooter]

People, for example Ursus, provide online articles to substantiate his statements. So far, you have not done that.

Sorry you got caught up in all of this, Joel.  Periodically we go thru this.  They will never be able to provide any evidence because it is all in their minds.  Over the past years I have been Peter Dunbar (Ed Con),  Woodbury from woodbury reports.  Then they thought I was an owner of a program, then another EdCon.  There have been so many I cant remember.  This year they think I am John Reuben.  Since I don’t go along with the group think here and I often play devil’s advocate on many of the issues, that we debate, they perceive me as a backer of the TTI industry and therefore must be an enemy of survivors.

There is really no harm and it’s a healthy way for Ann Boleyn, Dysfunction Junction etal to dump their self hatred or unhappiness with their current lives or whatever it is that drives their purge.  We are all anonymous here so I don’t take it personally.  Its not directed towards me personally because they don’t know who I am.  They eventually go back to their lives and we get back to healthy discussions here on fornits until the cycle begins again.



...

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Whooter

you brought up a point a while back that made the hair stand up .

something along the lines that why do people blame the programs when people fail, afterall AA isn't blamed when people fail.

you are comparing kumquats with sardines with regard to AA and the programs.

AA is a compassionate program if you will where the programs (mine being elan) was a sick brutal place. I am one of the fortunate ones that survivied that place. Many are dead just from having come in contact with that program.

elan did not give the residents the proper tools to deal with the real world. elans world  is not how the *real world* goes round.

AA is the real world and deals with their people in a compassionate way. Unlike how the programs deal with their people.

It would behoove you to know that " it is better to understand than be understood"  in my mind for you when you espose your rhetoric, from behind your mask.

It would more than likely to kill you to know that I consider myself to be a happy productive member of society, who doesn't need a sadist to tell me yeah these programs are sick. (In reference to Bob Dylan you don't need a weatherman to ...)

Matt Hoffman

[Whooter]

Whooter

you brought up a point a while back that made the hair stand up .

something along the lines that why do people blame the programs when people fail, afterall AA isn't blamed when people fail.

you are comparing kumquats with sardines with regard to AA and the programs.

AA is a compassionate program if you will where the programs (mine being elan) was a sick brutal place. I am one of the fortunate ones that survivied that place. Many are dead just from having come in contact with that program.

elan did not give the residents the proper tools to deal with the real world. elans world  is not how the *real world* goes round.

AA is the real world and deals with their people in a compassionate way. Unlike how the programs deal with their people.

It would behoove you to know that " it is better to understand than be understood"  in my mind for you when you espose your rhetoric, from behind your mask.

It would more than likely to kill you to know that I consider myself to be a happy productive member of society, who doesn't need a sadist to tell me yeah these programs are sick. (In reference to Bob Dylan you don't need a weatherman to ...)

Matt Hoffman

Here is my referenced quote on AA:

…..with AA, the individuals need to do the work they cant just rely on the meetings. If they start drinking again or commit suicide no one is going to blame AA for their choices.

[/i]

  I think the point I was trying to make is it is up to the individual to do the work.  Just the sheer mechanics of going to meetings isn’t going to keep you sober or move you forward with your sobriety.  A person needs to listen, participate and embrace a lifestyle which will lead them to the life that they choose.  Its hard work either way… its hard to juggle the lies and keep all those pins in the air and at the same time to continue drinking and convince yourself and others that you are okay and maintain a job and create the impression of a normal home life………it is also equally hard to not drink at all and at the same time try to not think about the prospect of never taking another drink your entire life.  But where ever you end up it was "you" who did the choosing and did the work, not AA.
Matt, Sorry you were in a shitty program.



...

[Troll Control]

People, for example Ursus, provide online articles to substantiate his statements. So far, you have not done that.

I've actually done much better than that, Joel.  Maybe you missed it, but you can click on the links I provided.  They point directly to Whooter's own posts where he claims to be part of the TTI.  Just ask him if he was lying then or if he is lying now to figure out what the truth is.

In Whooter's own words, he attended TTI meetings in Chicago in 2007 to "assess the safety of TBS's" via a "statistical group" and he also bragged about how he told the other TTI players "where the real money is - the TBS industry."  He's no regular parent and has proven what I say is true by his own postings.  So, obviously, I'm not lying or making anything up, but Whooter sure has told two very, very different, mutually exclusive stories.  You should press him to clarify, not me.  I just pointed out his lies.  

And he gets very angry when we do that.  His over-the-top reaction to being confronted (e.g. concocting a "fornits conspiracy theory" that everyone is just "out to get" him because of his views) is telling about the accuracy of my statements.  It hits him between the eyes, he can't avoid or deny it because he himself wrote it, and it gets him squealing, deflecting, and dissembling.  Too bad the proof is incontravertible because the proof is his own words.

So, Joel, if you choose to overlook the facts, that's fine with me, but you ought not to be pointing fingers and asking for "evidence" if you're too lazy to click the links.  Go back and read for comprehension before you comment next time and maybe you'll have a different view.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Troll Control]

All I'm saying, Joel, is if you're going to be interacting with Whooter, you should demand that he offer scientific evidence of what he posits.  He never does.  So, with a lack of actual evidence to support his view, the only measure of his assertions is his credibility, which is zero.  Therefore, in the absence of scientific proof of what he says, all he says can be dismissed out of hand unless he specifically states it his only his opinion and he has no evidence to support it, which he never does.  He prattles on as if what he says has weight to it, but it doesn't.

Also remember that he is here to do damage control for the TTI and to rope in unsuspecting parents as referrals for cash, so NOT challenging the nonsense he posts could lead DIRECTLY TO a child being abused by the programs he supports, several of which were closed last year alone for systematically abusing children and for practicing therapy without licenses or degrees.  Keep that in mind while you're going easy on that lying weasel.  You do so at the potential peril of someone's children.

[Anne Bonney]

 I am challenging you to  do so.

I really hate loaded language.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Anne Bonney]

If I'm not mistaken, DJ worked in the TTI.  I could be confusing him with another though.