Author Topic: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine  (Read 4837 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2009, 12:08:27 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"

You are confusing this with “life stages” in Dr. Miller Newtons book.  I know you probably feel a little foolish after that outburst but I cant believe how much anger you have in you.


No, asshole, those "stages of addiction" come directly from Newton's book.  I know, I have read it, and was subjected to the quackery.  The Newton book I referenced doesn't have anything in it about "four life stages", it does, however, mention the thouroughly ludicrous "four stages of chemical dependency".  

Also, I'm not Ajax.......but I do sympathize with him, and share his anger at idiots like yourself, who continue to herald discredited pseudoscience.  Idiots like you help people die from addictions.  You and your ilk are the equivalent of sending someone to a faith healer rather than a hospital.

You are confusing quackery and fraud with real addiction treatment, but you don't feel foolish (though you should) because you are completely attached to your delusions that AARC (and by extension, Newton and Str8/KIDS) is a legitimate treatment facility rather than the brainwashing cult that it is.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2009, 12:19:40 PM »
Here is the way “Join Together” defines the stages from the National Center on Addiction and Substance abuse at Columbia University.  They take a similar approach but break it out into 5 Stages.  They add a “Risky stage” as a separation between “Regular use” and “dependence”.  This would allow for more latitude in treatment options from the therapists point of view in choosing AARC or AADAC.
Take a look:


Stages of Substance Use
Stages of Substance Use include experimentation, regular use, risky use, dependence, and addiction.

Substance use can be addressed and treated at any stage – despite popular myths,
people do not need to “hit bottom” before they can benefit from help.
Stage One:  Experimentation


The first stage, experimentation, is the voluntary use of alcohol or other drugs.  Quite
frequently, the person experimenting is trying to erase another problem.  An older person
may start drinking to cope with depression after losing a spouse.  A teenager, angry about
his parents’ divorce, could start smoking marijuana or huffing inhalants.  Experimentation
may even include a husband taking his wife’s prescription painkillers to cope with a back
problem.  The substance seems solve the problem.  So the person takes more, and moves
from experimentation to regular use, the next stage.

Stage Two:  Regular Use

Some people stay in the regular use stage indefinitely. They will not develop a problem,
and stop by themselves.  Others start using substances in a manner that is risky or
hazardous to themselves or to others.  Risky behaviors include: smoking marijuana and
driving; binge drinking (consuming more than the recommended amount of alcohol at one
occasion); and unexplained violence, to one’s self or another.
Stage Three:  Risky Use

When and how the transition from regular to risky use happens differs for every individual.
So, what constitutes “risky behavior” by another person can be difficult to gauge.  Just
the same, if someone’s behavior concerns you, say so. People can pass quickly from risky
use to dependence.
Stage Four:  Dependence

Characteristics of dependence include: Repeated use of alcohol or other drugs that leads
to failure to fulfill major responsibilities related to work, family, school or other roles.  Or,
repeatedly drinking or using drugs in situations that are physically hazardous, such as
driving while intoxicated or using heavy machinery when intoxicated.  Or repeated legal
problems. Or any combination of these.

Many dependent people are able to work, maintain family relationships and friendships,
and limit their use of alcohol or other drugs to certain time periods, such as evenings
or weekends.
Stage Five:  Addiction

The last phase of the spectrum of substance use problems is addiction. Addiction is a
medical condition involving serious psychological and physical changes from repeated
heavy use of alcohol, other drugs, or both.
•   Symptoms include uncontrollable alcohol or other drug craving, seeking, and use,
that persists even in the face of negative consequences.  
•   Addiction is a progressive illness. If left untreated, it gets worse.  It is also chronic,
or long-standing (versus acute, or short-term).  
•   Addiction is a treatable illness. Recovery rates for people who go through treatment are very similar to those who get treatment for other chronic diseases such as diabetes and asthma. There are a number of treatment methods and community resources, including outpatient or residential treatment programs and twelve-step groups  These approaches can be customized to fit the needs of the individual and family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2009, 12:28:39 PM »
I am not sure if Heather was referncing the 4 Stages of addiction or the 5 Stages as defined by (NCASA) National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University.  But either one would serve as a great reference in my opinion.  We can wait to see how Ajax13 makes out contacting her.

I havent seen a reference to Miller Newtons Stages but would be interested to view them.  Anyone have a link to that one?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2009, 12:39:01 PM »
The model that you are using has been thouroughly discredited.

Addiction is NOT a disease, though it may qualify as a "condition".

By calling it a disease, you are trying to legitimize AARCism (Newtonism) as a form of medicine, or at least, psychology.

It is not a disease, and AARC/Straight/KIDS/other Synanon-derived "treatments" are not medicine.  You begin with a false premise and end up with an erroneous conclusion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ajax13

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2009, 12:40:28 PM »
I could never diminish those four unscientific stages.  They are, by their very nature, so totally diminished in terms of their relationship to actual medical science that I could do nothing further to make them more ridiculous.  I don't know what the addiction community is.  I will assume that is a reism that you have coined to refer to all non-medical TTI quackery practised in the name of treating addiction, as opposed to mental health professionals, who use the DSM IV to assess and diagnose disorders involving addiction.  But again, the pertinent question was where Heather Forsyth obtained her particular nomenclature.  Even though you had no idea as to the answer, you took it upon yourself to propose a preposterous method for obtaining the answer, and then posited an equally ridiculous answer.  
If one accepts the disease model of addiction, medical literature postulates structural and functional changes in the brain that occur as a result of prolonged substance abuse.  Experimentation can hardly be seen to constitute a stage of addiction, which in terms of the disease model refers to the brain state after these structrual and functional changes occur.  Experimentation precedes these purported changes.  If the brain state hasn't changed, the person does not have the disease.  Your post is just more quackery from a TTI shill.
Not sure why you added my username to the above quote, but if it makes you happy, good for you.
The fact that I find your laziness repugnant hardly indicates anger.  You're repulsive, but your total lack of acumen and facts to counter what I say is greatly reassuring.  When I refer to you as a psychopath, it's not name-calling.  You have clearly demonstrated that you have a disorder, quite likely psychopathy.  It was your deviant behaviour that led me to make the shot-in-the dark about you putting your kid in a wilderness program after which he killed himself.  As I said, it was just dumb luck that I turned out to be right, although the world would be a better place had it been you rather than your son that ended up on the slab.  Although there is the old saying that you have to be good to be lucky.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Anonymous

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2009, 01:00:30 PM »
Dear Guest

          You miss the point about the dangers associated with subjecting an adolescent to aarc.
           At aarc the patients, if they want to progress, are required to acknowledge that they have an illness- addiction- that they can't control and that they will have to deal with it every day for the rest of their lives.  They are also told that the first step to recovery is acknowledging that they have the illness and that they are powerless over it.  Without the acknowledgement the patient is stuck in phase 1.

       You said the following in one of your posts in this thread

            "Although I dont want to answer for Heather. Rehabs which are set-up to handle people in the midst of Stage III and Stage IV addiction can also handle people struggling with Stage I and Stage II addiction. But this doesn’t work the other way around. So in special cases people in Stage I and II can be sent to a facility specializing in Stage III and IV and can be treated adequately.
Look at it like utilizing a small hammer to drive in a push pin. It is not really needed but it still does the job. I believe the treatment was effective and Rachael is able to hold down a job and is off addictive substances."

      Now look at the profile of a stage one or stage 2 person as defined in the non aarc definitions you provided.  People in those phases are not addicted at all.  
   
      Accepting that there are stages don't you see that placing a person who you describe as phase one or two into aarc can do them far more harm than good.   A person in what you call phase one or phase two is not addicted to anything.  They are not a phase one or phase two addict and placing such a person into a facility with recovering addicts who believe everyone is just like them is irrational, cruel and harmful.

      The problem with facilities like aarc is that that those who believed they were helped by it also believe that everyone that takes a drink or smokes a joint has started down a path that leads to addiction.  That is just nonsense and it happens here because the aarc advocates tend to become missionaries to the rest of the world.      

      One of the points of the phases as presented in the non arrc version is that the words addict and addiction are limited in their use.  Everyone who experiments with drugs is not destined to be an addict and has no particular disease at all.  They may be just experimenting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dr. Miller Newton

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2009, 01:20:41 PM »
Quote
The problem with facilities like aarc is that that those who believed they were helped by it also believe that everyone that takes a drink or smokes a joint has started down a path that leads to addiction. That is just nonsense and it happens here because the aarc advocates tend to become missionaries to the rest of the world

No, Druggie-sympathizer, you miss the point......drug addiction happens long before the first drink or joint.  What is known as the "dry druggie attitude" causes addiction even if the druggie in question has never used drugs of any sort.  I have demostrated this truth several times in my career.  Preventive intervention, such as Straight , KIDS, or AARC is the only way to save even those druggies who have never actually "gotten high"---otherwise, they wiill certainly wind up DEAD, INSANE, or IN JAIL.   I've seen druggies go right to mainlining smack, without bothering to drink or toke down a bonghit.......they do this because they are driven by what is known in medical circles as theri "druggie will".   Only my proven, time-tested techniques will save them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease

Offline ajax13

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2009, 01:30:05 PM »
Thank goodness you've come back Dr. Newton.  While I admire Reuben's willingness to embrace the metaphysical concepts that you were so successful in using to formulate your highly-regarded treatment program, I find his refusal to acknowledge your Christ-like hand in chanelling said concepts unto the unworthy but needy to be indicative of his druggie dishonesty.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2009, 01:53:07 PM »
Quote from: "you miss the point"

      Now look at the profile of a stage one or stage 2 person as defined in the non aarc definitions you provided.  People in those phases are not addicted at all.  
   
      Accepting that there are stages don't you see that placing a person who you describe as phase one or two into aarc can do them far more harm than good.   A person in what you call phase one or phase two is not addicted to anything.  They are not a phase one or phase two addict and placing such a person into a facility with recovering addicts who believe everyone is just like them is irrational, cruel and harmful.

      The problem with facilities like aarc is that that those who believed they were helped by it also believe that everyone that takes a drink or smokes a joint has started down a path that leads to addiction.  That is just nonsense and it happens here because the aarc advocates tend to become missionaries to the rest of the world.      

      One of the points of the phases as presented in the non arrc version is that the words addict and addiction are limited in their use.  Everyone who experiments with drugs is not destined to be an addict and has no particular disease at all.  They may be just experimenting.

You have a valid point.  It would be unnecessary and even damaging to place a person who was not addicted into a treatment center.  My intention in that discussion was to show that the 4 Stages or 5 Stages as defined by the National Center on Addiction and Substance abuse at Columbia University can give mental health professionals “talking points”(or benchmarks) so when consulting each other they can be on the same page the same as doctors do when discussing “Stages” of Cancer development for example.  But back to my point.  The advantages of defining Stages allows a mental health professional to make a determination that a particular client may be advancing thru Stage II very quickly and has a family history of addiction and therefore would benefit from AARC vs AADAC.  So by defining Stages of addiction mental health professional can better treat the patients more consistently and this also lends itself to better results when studies are performed.

As far as believers go I hear you loud and clear. My Aunt had heart by-pass surgery and now over night believes anyone who eats red meat is destined to follow in her path.  She is a true Vegetarian overnight.  I can see how this would apply to addiction also when recovered addicts think everyone who drinks or smokes is an addict or headed down that path.  Personally I believe it has a lot to do with family history and risk of addiction runs in the family.
As the Stages become more main stream and better defined the risk of a person being placed in rehab unnecessarily will be eliminated or as a minimum greatly reduced.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2009, 02:05:44 PM »
So AARC is guilty of medical malpractice (at least) by admitting kids who aren't addicts?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ajax13

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2009, 02:11:41 PM »
Reuben, those stages you posted are reisms.  They do not refer to stages of a brain disease.  Now run it by us again who Rachael checked in with, how you know this, and why you claimed that readers could find out the origins of Heather Forsyth's four stages of addiction by asking a drug counselor?  Are you this lazy at work?  I realize that you're a salesman, but how do you slide your laziness and ineptitude past your co-workers?  Those IT cats are usually pretty sharp.  Is that when you change jobs, once they find out you're just a scammer with no real abilities?  How long until Correlsense sends you kicking your lunchpail down the road?  Playing with you on Fornits reminds me of whack-a-mole, although those plastic moles are generally a  little brighter and less predictible than you.  No matter how far down the garden path you go Johnny, I always know the way back.  
So interested readers, are Heather Forsyth's categories of addiction taken from AARC, who unquestionably took them from the good Doctor Newton?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2009, 03:18:52 PM »
Actually it was me who posted the Stages of addiction so I will answer that portion.  The previous poster was right about your anger towards other posters who disagree with  you Ajax.  You should try to discuss more and allow those people with differing opinions to post without being ridiculed.  An open discussion is healthy and can be informative.

Quote
So interested readers, are Heather Forsyth's categories of addiction taken from AARC, who unquestionably took them from the good Doctor Newton?

The stages may have also been taken from the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse who have broken the Stages down into 5 categories.  They added a “Risky” Stage to separate Stage II and III.  The original 4 Stages have been used by Mental health professionals in the US for some time now and apparently are being refined.

I am not sure if Heather is posting or reading here but when she does it will be interesting to see how her Stages compare or if they are the same ones adopted here in the US.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ajax13

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2009, 03:38:16 PM »
So lazy, Reuben! Are you pretending to be cold-calling while you're on Fornits?  How long do you think it'll be until they catch on and fire you Johnny?  You've almost made it a year.  Will you get sued for your TTI shill work before you get fired from Correlsense?  Only time will tell.
Back to the issue at hand.  Was Heather Forsyth using the  pseudo-scientific classifications that AARC took from Kids?  How did Forsyth come to determine that those most seriously affected by the disease would be sent, at tax-payer's expense, to the unlicensed quack compound known as AARC, while the less seriously affected would be treated by AADAC?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2009, 04:08:52 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Was Heather Forsyth using the pseudo-scientific classifications that AARC took from Kids? How did Forsyth come to determine that those most seriously affected by the disease would be sent, at tax-payer's expense, to the unlicensed quack compound known as AARC, while the less seriously affected would be treated by AADAC?
So,Ajax, you got tired of giving me a hard time and are back to dumping your anger on this Reuben guy.  Have fun with that.
To answer your question lets look at the quote from Heather:
Quote
If a child is at stage 1 or 2 drug and alcohol addiction, we could put them into AADAC. If they’re at 3 or 4, which is a higher drug and alcohol addiction, 4 being the highest, then they will go into AARC which will then be covered by the government and long-term.
These stages apply to either the 4 Stage process used by Mental Health Professionals in the US or She was referring to the Stages outlined by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse.  Here see below:

Stages of Substance Use
Stages of Substance Use include experimentation, regular use, risky use, dependence, and addiction.

Substance use can be addressed and treated at any stage – despite popular myths,
people do not need to “hit bottom” before they can benefit from help.
Stage One:  Experimentation


The first stage, experimentation, is the voluntary use of alcohol or other drugs.  Quite
frequently, the person experimenting is trying to erase another problem.  An older person
may start drinking to cope with depression after losing a spouse.  A teenager, angry about
his parents’ divorce, could start smoking marijuana or huffing inhalants.  Experimentation
may even include a husband taking his wife’s prescription painkillers to cope with a back
problem.  The substance seems solve the problem.  So the person takes more, and moves
from experimentation to regular use, the next stage.

Stage Two:  Regular Use

Some people stay in the regular use stage indefinitely. They will not develop a problem,
and stop by themselves.  Others start using substances in a manner that is risky or
hazardous to themselves or to others.  Risky behaviors include: smoking marijuana and
driving; binge drinking (consuming more than the recommended amount of alcohol at one
occasion); and unexplained violence, to one’s self or another.
Stage Three:  Risky Use

When and how the transition from regular to risky use happens differs for every individual.
So, what constitutes “risky behavior” by another person can be difficult to gauge.  Just
the same, if someone’s behavior concerns you, say so. People can pass quickly from risky
use to dependence.
Stage Four:  Dependence

Characteristics of dependence include: Repeated use of alcohol or other drugs that leads
to failure to fulfill major responsibilities related to work, family, school or other roles.  Or,
repeatedly drinking or using drugs in situations that are physically hazardous, such as
driving while intoxicated or using heavy machinery when intoxicated.  Or repeated legal
problems. Or any combination of these.

Many dependent people are able to work, maintain family relationships and friendships,
and limit their use of alcohol or other drugs to certain time periods, such as evenings
or weekends.
Stage Five:  Addiction

The last phase of the spectrum of substance use problems is addiction. Addiction is a
medical condition involving serious psychological and physical changes from repeated
heavy use of alcohol, other drugs, or both.
•   Symptoms include uncontrollable alcohol or other drug craving, seeking, and use,
that persists even in the face of negative consequences.  
•   Addiction is a progressive illness. If left untreated, it gets worse.  It is also chronic,
or long-standing (versus acute, or short-term).  
•   Addiction is a treatable illness. Recovery rates for people who go through treatment are very similar to those who get treatment for other chronic diseases such as diabetes and asthma. There are a number of treatment methods and community resources, including outpatient or residential treatment programs and twelve-step groups  These approaches can be customized to fit the needs of the individual and family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: AARC supporting hypocrite busted for DUI and Cocaine
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 04:19:53 PM »
Guest, dont let Ajax13 get to you.  I have seen him like this before on another thread.  He posts the same question over and over again and then when someone answers him he gets angry and frustrated and starts calling everyone names.  I think he likes his questions to go unanswered for some reason.  He wont engage in any conversation or debate that I have seen.  Just a repetitive question followed by lots of anger and name calling.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »