Author Topic: More Paintings that Leave Little Question  (Read 6502 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hanzomon4

  • Posts: 1334
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2007, 07:58:31 AM »
Just my opinion, folks with criminal backgrounds should not be working with kids especially in an environment were the children are so vulnerable to abuse or exploitation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +3/-3
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2009, 11:37:02 PM »
i worked at daytop 20 years ago in adol outpatient. i DO agree with you about methods. i was the only counselor in my facilty who was not an ex-addict and had a BA in psych. the yelling and screaming, the "haircuts" and encounter groups were unnecessarily harsh, especially for kids. i left in less than a year because of this. i can't speak for any other location but i can attest to the fact that although the other counselors were ex-addicts and ex-whatever else, they were INDEED concerned for the kids they treated and were not there for the check. in my time at least, the check was pitifully meager. i can say that all the ppl who worked with me, misguided as their methods were, wanted to help the kids in their charge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Inculcated

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 801
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 12:20:19 AM »
Quote from: "guest1060597"
i worked at daytop 20 years ago in adol outpatient. i DO agree with you about methods. i was the only counselor in my facilty who was not an ex-addict and had a BA in psych. the yelling and screaming, the "haircuts" and encounter groups were unnecessarily harsh, especially for kids. i left in less than a year because of this. i can't speak for any other location but i can attest to the fact that although the other counselors were ex-addicts and ex-whatever else, they were INDEED concerned for the kids they treated and were not there for the check. in my time at least, the check was pitifully meager. i can say that all the ppl who worked with me, misguided as their methods were, wanted to help the kids in their charge.
I’ll get the obligatory insult toward your language skills out of the way, by addressing that it’s a wonder you were even able to matriculate.

Thanks so much for that tepid acknowledgement of the daily litany of verbal and psychological abuse inflicted on the kids as being “unnecessarily harsh”.

You “attest to the fact that the other counsellors were INDEED concerned for the kids”. I’ll concede in some very misguided cases of those who were indoctrinated into perpetuators of programming, that’s probably true.

My question is how the HELL would you presume to speak of the motives of all the other counsellors?
Did it occur to you that despite whatever nobility you saw in their receiving pittance remunerations, some of them were getting a pay off from being in the only environment they could thrive in?
 
In that common ground they were free to express punitive love (AND IN AT LEAST ONE CASE CREEPY INTRUSIVE AFFECTION) and arbitrarily mete out sadistically humiliating learning experiences. Whether they themselves were so convinced or not, they told the kids this “harsh” “treatment” was for their own good. Sure some of them believed that, but it doesn’t mitigate the impact of the harm they inflicted.

If you really want to reach out, you could perhaps be more forthcoming with pertinent details such as which facility you worked in. Also,expand on "harsh" and "concern" from your unique perspective.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Inculcated

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 801
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2009, 07:27:35 PM »
If you really want to reach out, you could perhaps be more forthcoming with pertinent details such as which facility you worked in. Also,expand on "harsh" and "concern" from your unique perspective.-Inculcated
Still looking forward to your reply.
Who’s runnin’ now ?

Updated revision:
Never mind.I’ve had some burning questions sufficiently answered by someone else and they seemed on the level.
…Troll on
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 04:37:53 AM by Inculcated »
“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline Paul St. John

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2009, 08:35:05 PM »
Quote from: "guest1060597"
i worked at daytop 20 years ago in adol outpatient. i DO agree with you about methods. i was the only counselor in my facilty who was not an ex-addict and had a BA in psych. the yelling and screaming, the "haircuts" and encounter groups were unnecessarily harsh, especially for kids. i left in less than a year because of this. i can't speak for any other location but i can attest to the fact that although the other counselors were ex-addicts and ex-whatever else, they were INDEED concerned for the kids they treated and were not there for the check. in my time at least, the check was pitifully meager. i can say that all the ppl who worked with me, misguided as their methods were, wanted to help the kids in their charge.


Perhaps, the counselors where you were actually did want to help the kids or at least appeared to.  The imporatnt thing in my book is that we agree the methods were misguided and unnecessarily harsh, especailly for kids.  You did the right thing by leaving!

Whether people where you were cared or only put on a good act, I can t know, but I do think that some people working in the programs are redeemabl, but the programs themselves are not.

Daytop is bad.  Daytop was far worse!  And Daytop is not alone.  These programs are like an epeidemic. Light needs to be shone on them.  

Also, they are an absolute insult to people who responsibly practice beneficail forms of psychology that actually benefit a patient.  These schools really run accordng to out-dated Dark Ages methodologies........and ph
ilosophies as their methodologies stem from their flawed philosophies, which many of the practitioners, it seems, cannot even verbalise but have only assimilated, through association, and "act as if".

Many of the Daytop community are well aware of what they are guilty of.  People have done many terrible things throughout history, in the name of a greater good.  Still they have been held accountable, even if with lenancy, still accountable

The actions that have taken place in the history of Therapeutic communities have been more then abusive.  They have been systematically abusive, and scientifically abusive. As opposed to the average child abuser who hurts their kids during a drunken fit, or because they are sufferring extra low self-esteem on a particular day, this abuse is contrived, planned, and razor sharp.

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164661
  • Karma: +3/-3
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2009, 02:40:53 AM »
I do not doubt that some people are better suited to daytops methodology. Without attributing blame or evil intention to daytop some guys respond better to it than others. I was there and saw a few guys just not handle it. Overall, with all its flaws the daytop I knew in 1980 was an elegant behavioral model addressing serious addiction. For some it worked well for others it didn't. We had alot of laughs and there was a tough  but warm family atmosphere. There is still no magic cure for hardcore addicts. Treatment is a work in progress. You should lighten up. Methinks though dost protest too much.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: More Paintings that Leave Little Question
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2009, 04:10:25 PM »
Quote from: "steve f"
I do not doubt that some people are better suited to daytops methodology.  


And I think that Daytop methodologies are not suited to people



Quote from: "steve f"
Without attributing blame or evil intention to daytop..... .


Why shouldn't we attribute blame to Daytop?  Who should we attribute blame to.  They claim to be able to cure people of drug addiction, and they receive money to perform that service.


Quote from: "steve f"
some guys respond better to it than others. I was there and saw a few guys just not handle it. .

Then these people did not receive the services that their parents, the state, their school, and Daytop sponsors paid for.  That is pretty black and white to me. My question is - When it was realised that they were not responding to it and/or couldn't handle it, were they immediatly released from treatment, or still held there for months or even years against their will?

 
Quote from: "steve f"
Overall, with all its flaws the daytop I knew in 1980 was an elegant behavioral model addressing serious addiction..

The Daytop I knew in the early 90's ( a time in which it was better then the 80's) had not a touch of elegance to it, and I could not even imagine that any person who watched from the outside as a 3rd party who had the least bit of sense, would use of all words, "elegant", to describe it. I remember it as more of a "let's try this.. let's try that.. let's try this" .. very rough and frustrating for all involved sort of environment.  The fact of the matter is the program just did not work, and these you are typing are not even worth the energy it took to type them.  The program harmed many people who did not deserve it, made them less independent, less confident, more subserviant, less happy, slowed down their growing into maturity, taught them how to thrive through manipulation, and convinced them that they were dopefienes who were incapable of any thought or feeling that was not wrong, unless it was a thought or feeling that proved someone else wrong.  


Quote from: "steve f"
For some it worked well for others it didn't..

Win some ... Lose some..


 
Quote from: "steve f"
We had alot of laughs .

Well, that's impoartant.

 I watched an epsiode of "The Office" last night, and I had a lot of laughs.  You're probably wonderring how that's relevent. It's not.. just like you're having a lot of laughs at Daytop is completely irrelevant to whether or not it is an effective drug rehabilitation program.


Quote from: "steve f"
and there was a tough  but warm family atmosphere.

That's a bunch of bullshit, and you know it.  

Screaming obscenities at people in front of "the family" til they break down in tears = a tough, but warm family environment?

Or how 'bout the tough but warm family environment where family members have to sit motionless in a chair and stare at a wall for 12 hours..

They type of warmth you're talking about is the type of warmth that will slowly cook someone.

Quote from: "steve f"
There is still no magic cure for hardcore addicts..

and there never will be a magic cure

 
Quote from: "steve f"
Treatment is a work in progress..

AKA many unhappy people will go on causing unnecessary pain to people who are not in a position to protect themselves, but just until we smooth out the edges.. get it right... hang in there... it's all for a good cause  

 
Quote from: "steve f"
You should lighten up..

That was a wasted 20 characters or so. I am not a very maleable human being.. quite the contrary.  Did you think I would read that and say, " Oh.. You re right .. I should lightenn up. Oh gosh darnit"







 
Quote from: "steve f"
Methinks though dost protest too much.

What the fu** do I care what youthinks?

Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »