Author Topic: aparently, adults want to go to programs too  (Read 23355 times)

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Offline try another castle

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #240 on: September 15, 2010, 08:59:21 PM »
ursus, it's time someone took a ball-peen hammer to your CTRL key.  TL;DR  :timeout:

I know you can write, Ive seen you do it. It's just been a while.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #241 on: September 15, 2010, 09:17:51 PM »
Ursus, are you bases this whole page after page of information solely on what, Cassandra Yorgey has to say, her opinion, she is not a expert, she is a journalist.  You have thrown in some anecdotal opinions from around the country off of websites, ya know these sections they have at end of all sites at the bottom.
We can read them from the links you provide. The problem I have, is no hard evidence against the man. There is no pattern established as of yet, just some disgruntled participants spouting off.
Don't let me stop ya, I know your on a roll.
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Offline Ursus

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quack quack
« Reply #242 on: September 15, 2010, 11:10:01 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Ursus, are you bases this whole page after page of information solely on what, Cassandra Yorgey has to say, her opinion, she is not a expert, she is a journalist.  You have thrown in some anecdotal opinions from around the country off of websites, ya know these sections they have at end of all sites at the bottom.
We can read them from the links you provide. The problem I have, is no hard evidence against the man. There is no pattern established as of yet, just some disgruntled participants spouting off.
Don't let me stop ya, I know your on a roll.
Yah, well, I s'pose someone could say that your stories 'bout Elan being a hellhole are nothing but a whole lot of "anecdotal opinions" when you come right down to it, eh? I myself might not be so inclined, but someone with the kind of reasoning you just demonstrated above might well take such a tack...

Jes sayin', when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #243 on: September 16, 2010, 11:37:29 AM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Ursus, are you bases this whole page after page of information solely on what, Cassandra Yorgey has to say, her opinion, she is not a expert, she is a journalist.

Yes, she is a journalist and is doing her job.....reporting.


Quote
The problem I have, is no hard evidence against the man. There is no pattern established as of yet, just some disgruntled participants spouting off.

That's a matter of opinion.  Apparently, the cops and the D.A.'s office felt there was enough evidence to file manslaughter charges against him.  With a $5 million bond.  That's a pretty significant bond, even for manslaughter.  The "establishing a pattern" is what comes during the trial.  Right now, they're still gathering and processing all the evidence.

And, sorry Danny but...the "disgruntled" participant bit is exactly how the TTI refers to anyone who dares to criticize them.  


Quote
Don't let me stop ya, I know your on a roll.


I'm glad he's posting them and find it to be very interesting reading, especially the comments.  I really think it's scary how so many people are so willing to hand themselves over to these self proclaimed "gurus" or "life coaches".  It's ridiculous.  Most of these people don't have the qualifications to be counseling my dog, let alone have that kind of influence over people.  I think part of it is the goddamned "Oprah effect".
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: quack quack
« Reply #244 on: September 16, 2010, 02:42:28 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Ursus, are you bases this whole page after page of information solely on what, Cassandra Yorgey has to say, her opinion, she is not a expert, she is a journalist.  You have thrown in some anecdotal opinions from around the country off of websites, ya know these sections they have at end of all sites at the bottom.
We can read them from the links you provide. The problem I have, is no hard evidence against the man. There is no pattern established as of yet, just some disgruntled participants spouting off.
Don't let me stop ya, I know your on a roll.
Yah, well, I s'pose someone could say that your stories 'bout Elan being a hellhole are nothing but a whole lot of "anecdotal opinions" when you come right down to it, eh? I myself might not be so inclined, but someone with the kind of reasoning you just demonstrated above might well take such a tack...

Jes sayin', when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Well, there is just one problem with your analogy up there Anne, I have maybe 2 paragraphs of posts concerning Elan, spread out over 10 months. One would have to be very interested in reading my anecdotal opinions to find them.
Now maybe your bias for Ursus is leaking through your post, above.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: quack quack
« Reply #245 on: September 16, 2010, 04:25:44 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"

Well, there is just one problem with your analogy up there Anne, I have maybe 2 paragraphs of posts concerning Elan, spread out over 10 months. One would have to be very interested in reading my anecdotal opinions to find them.

Oh, it wasn't an analogy....it was a direct comparison.  What you said about "disgruntled patients" is exactly what programs say about kids or their parents who dare to question their so-called "treatment" in the TTI.


Quote
Now maybe your bias for Ursus is leaking through your post, above.

Bias for Ursus?  What, you seriously think I'm gonna base my opinion on this New Warrior bullshit on what Ursus says?  I mean, sure I like the guy but c'mon....gimme credit for having my own mind.  I find that newage garbage just as creepy, if not more, than the TTI - all by my little lonesome.  Adults actually sign up for this crap...kids are forced into it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #246 on: October 08, 2010, 01:00:46 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"

It seems you are the one that feels threatened.  


Gee...I wonder why?


Quote from: "DannyB II"
Well then keep drumming because your solo. Joel your not even with someone and neither is your brother. DUh.....I have been with two women in my life, one passed on and I am currently with the second. She has posted here and has had some serious comments for Anne and Felice. I/we have absolutely no respect for them then again I have showed no mercy on Ursus, Che, DJ, Paul (lill johnny) and yourself dickwad I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me,. I'll kick Annes ass as sure as I will kick your ass. Don't like it, take your balls and go home.
Don't like what I have to say about Anne, go back and read and you will see who started the vulgar deprecating verbal attacks. You have always seemed to have no memory.
Don't come around with some moronic psycho-babble, you know nothing about.
Keep trying your diversion Joel, sorry though (3) of us have our feet planted right on Anne's ass.
You were just a snack during intermission.

Bye Bye sissyboy.

Anne, shut your pie hole and suck it up, ya baby. No, Anne, I said I would kick your ass.... :roflmao:
Oh, hear we go. Danny said he was going to kick my ass. OH boo hoo, I'm so scared I peed my pants. Would Anne, Joel and BP like some depends for your protection. Right now I am kicking your ass, how does it feel.
I just love how you folks make such a big deal out of what I say. That is why I say it. Because I love to see you folks cry.
Oh Danny is threatening me, Danny is sexually assaulting me, Danny is doing this, Suck-It is doing that, Tim is doing this, Whooter is doing that and bla bla bla.........
Guys step off you freaking pansies. Go cry to the authorities or other wise suck it up. You get what ya get because you give what ya give.




See, whenever someone threatens DannyBoi's worldview, he gets upset and throws tantrums.  He makes threats, hints that he has "inside info" about you and all sorts of other weird stuff.  I wonder if they teach that at this New Warrior Training?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #247 on: October 08, 2010, 01:38:53 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 11:54:37 AM by DannyB II »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #248 on: October 08, 2010, 02:01:23 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"

It seems you are the one that feels threatened.  


Gee...I wonder why?


Quote from: "DannyB II"
Well then keep drumming because your solo. Joel your not even with someone and neither is your brother. DUh.....I have been with two women in my life, one passed on and I am currently with the second. She has posted here and has had some serious comments for Anne and Felice. I/we have absolutely no respect for them then again I have showed no mercy on Ursus, Che, DJ, Paul (lill johnny) and yourself dickwad I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me,. I'll kick Annes ass as sure as I will kick your ass. Don't like it, take your balls and go home.
Don't like what I have to say about Anne, go back and read and you will see who started the vulgar deprecating verbal attacks. You have always seemed to have no memory.
Don't come around with some moronic psycho-babble, you know nothing about.
Keep trying your diversion Joel, sorry though (3) of us have our feet planted right on Anne's ass.
You were just a snack during intermission.

Bye Bye sissyboy.

Anne, shut your pie hole and suck it up, ya baby. No, Anne, I said I would kick your ass.... :roflmao:
Oh, hear we go. Danny said he was going to kick my ass. OH boo hoo, I'm so scared I peed my pants. Would Anne, Joel and BP like some depends for your protection. Right now I am kicking your ass, how does it feel.
I just love how you folks make such a big deal out of what I say. That is why I say it. Because I love to see you folks cry.
Oh Danny is threatening me, Danny is sexually assaulting me, Danny is doing this, Suck-It is doing that, Tim is doing this, Whooter is doing that and bla bla bla.........
Guys step off you freaking pansies. Go cry to the authorities or other wise suck it up. You get what ya get because you give what ya give.




See, whenever someone threatens DannyBoi's worldview, he gets upset and throws tantrums.  He makes threats, hints that he has "inside info" about you and all sorts of other weird stuff.  I wonder if they teach that at this New Warrior Training?



So you came all the way over here to make this point. Yah, one of those real got 'cha posts.   :rofl:

Ummm, yeah...it is.  You physically threaten women who you feel intellectually threatened by.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #249 on: October 08, 2010, 03:06:38 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 11:54:02 AM by DannyB II »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #250 on: October 08, 2010, 03:16:13 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Really, I think instead of hurling accusations around of me threatening you,

It's not just an accusation.  You admitted and and expanded on it.

Quote
maybe we should be asking ourselves what is going on with Anne, that she always runs to the victim role. Anne, you are a big girl now and I am not your father.

Thank FSM!!

Quote
This is not a LGAT and I am not a staff member anymore
.

Coulda fooled me cuz you sure do act like one.  But I guess that's what comes from a lifetime of following LGATs and chasing after wannabe gurus.

Quote
Please repeat after me.....I am a big girl, I am not a victim, this is not a LGAT, Danny is not my father.
Keep going on your own, you'll get there.

You're a very odd man DannyBoi.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #251 on: October 08, 2010, 03:47:41 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 11:53:09 AM by DannyB II »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #252 on: October 08, 2010, 03:56:51 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Anne, ADHD is a problem I know but hey, work with me here.

You have ADHD?  I'm sorry.  I should have guessed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #253 on: October 08, 2010, 10:21:40 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 11:52:42 AM by DannyB II »
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Offline Ursus

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Comments: "Breaking News: Inside accounts of...," #s 1-25
« Reply #254 on: October 09, 2010, 10:16:15 AM »
Getting back to the last article, here are comments left for the above piece, "Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 16th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 1-25:


by Trish · 11 months ago
    My heart is literally pounding out of my chest reading this! I am outraged at James Ray and his cult leaders. These people were like lambs to the slaughter, but they had to pay thousands for it. He should be sued for everything he has but that will not bring back the dead. You have people attending his meetings who have been abused, who have self-doubt, who are trying to become stronger and more powerful AND THIS IS WHAT THEY GET? I dont' even know what to say after this except that the universe rights itself James, so watch out...
by native woman · 11 months ago
    Do any of you James Ray followers ask him if he knows what he is doing in that lodge? Whats the name of the person who taught him that and would they vouch for him? Did he ask if anyone had any health concerns before they went in? Did you EVEN ask questions? Are you discouraged from asking questions or looked down on if you do? Are you given real answers that you are satisfied with?
    Before you went into that lodge did you feel you could trust that man with your life?

    If I dont feel any safe answers to these questions about someone who says they can run a sweat. I DON'T go in.

    ANYONE CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OR ALLOWED TO RUN A SWEAT!! Not everyone is telling you the truth.

    Look up "New age Fraud" before you try to attend one of these things you call a "native american ritual" run by some nonnative who was taught by some white guy who was taught by his mom who was adopted into the XXX tribe became their medicine woman!!! why? cuz that's a lie!!!
by native woman · 11 months ago
    I say this because no one seems to question people that do this. I believe those people died and got hurt because James Ray didn't know how to properly run that lodge. Did anyone ask questions?
by Mary Ann · 11 months ago
    Breaks my heart that they went through this. I too offer love and support to them as they work to learn to trust again.
by Lynn · 11 months ago
    Woooowww. That man needs to be put out of commission.

    Excellent article, Cassandra. The description by attendees (finally!) closely matched what I had imagined in my mind after researching the kind of man James Ray appears to be and getting some insight into his ego and his almost sociopathic responses to people's suffering, both now and in the past. It's aaaallll about him, after all, isn't it? Scary and sad.
by A friend · 11 months ago
    Typo you can easily repair:
    >>You will be taken care. You are provided for.
    Thank you -- too astonished to comment right now.
by Duff · 11 months ago
    Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are a hero.
by Critical Thinker · 11 months ago
    Questioning such people are discouraged. They mock the questioner as being "negative" and imply even the slightest criticism is "proof" of the questioner's heresy. You see this all the time among the Secret "teachers"--Vitale, Schirmer, Ray--they all spout the same money-cult blame-the-victim lines. Ask 'em a question they don't want to answer, and time by the second hand on your watch how quickly it's turned on the questioner. Give 'em extra points if they use any of the following terms: "negative" "jealous" "destructive" or the ever-popular "I feel sorry for (the questioner)".
by Dave · 11 months ago
    Excellent work. This guy, and others like him, are truly despicable and dangerous, yet they always seem to carry on with their programs unencumbered by guilt or shame, regardless of any evidence of their immoral, often criminal actions. Amazing. There has to be some way to hold them accountable.

    I wish the best for the victims of his abuse, and I can only hope they reject his sliminess and come out in force to testify against him. Never mind lawsuits - this creep needs to go to prison.
by Incredulous · 11 months ago
    I've watched and both liked and not liked James Ray for a few years now. I despised his pompous, arrogant, I'm so great talk, "I can help you - let me help you" in his videos, teleseminars, radio interviews. I think he truly believes he is annointed to raise up "the masses". Problem is NO ONE OTHER THAN ONESELF CAN RAISE UP ONESELF.

    That's what all Spiritual Warrior was about, to create an experience that participants would identify as enlightenment so they would "attach" to James Ray and rave about his expensive events.

    Megalomaniac describes it well. It also explains ALL that behavior that turned me off so many times I observed it.

    Pure and simple, this man killed those people. To play with the flap door like that, physically stopping emergency exits? I'm speechless, ONLY a megalomaniac could do such a thing.

    In this Universe one always gets back what one puts out. It's James turn to receive back that which he has wrought upon others.

    My heart is with the surv
by Bob Schnebly · 11 months ago
    This man James Ray needs to be held accountable for this in no uncertain terms... We need to get him off the streets. NOW!!!

    Bob
by Curious · 11 months ago
    Hi Cassandra, Can you check this out please? Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
    Did she die while attending a "group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall" as part of the seminar?
by Incredulous · 11 months ago
    I've watched and both liked and not liked James Ray for a few years now. I despised his pompous, arrogant, I'm so great talk, "I can help you - let me help you" in his videos, teleseminars, radio interviews. I think he truly believes he is annointed to raise up "the masses". Problem is NO ONE OTHER THAN ONESELF CAN RAISE UP ONESELF.

    That's what all Spiritual Warrior was about, to create an experience that participants would identify as enlightenment so they would "attach" to James Ray and rave about his expensive events.

    Megalomaniac describes it well. It also explains ALL that behavior that turned me off so many times I observed it.

    Pure and simple, this man killed those people. To play with the flap door like that, physically stopping emergency exits? I'm speechless, ONLY a megalomaniac could do such a thing.

    In this Universe one always gets back what one puts out. It's James turn to receive back that which he has wrought upon others.

    My heart is with the surv
by Disturbed · 11 months ago
    I was at CAW July 24-26 and was never made aware that any of the participants were missing much less dead despite the fact a "buddy" system was in place. I found out due to this recent tragedy that there was in fact a tragedy at my event too. I have only received good from the teachings that I have learned at events however I realize now that safety and concern of the participants is left at the door. There is definitely an air of time limited preparation if any and you never know where you are going to go. Granted this creates an aire of concern for your safety and does get you out of your comfort zone which is good. Many never reach their potential due to being stuck in "the same". But again, it must be done properly so there is only a belief you are in danger not actual danger. Less than that is a careless act of the host & means tragedy is just a matter of time. His lessons are destroyed by his actions regardless of how true they may be.
by MLWilde · 11 months ago
    Like Incredulous, I have been both intrigued and repelled by James Ray. I met him in person with my infant daughter and his energy was like a block of lead - nothing inside. Sort of a locked energy and it was not very authentic. For someone like me, who is an empath, that said a lot.

    I do not presume (like the author) to make assumptions about the retreat or Ray's ultimate intentions for his work. I am saddened that people will put unwavering faith in such guru figures.

    We are all messengers for one another. We all respond to different packaging. I didn't like Rays overall packaging but I don't necessarily see him as inherently evil or as a megalomaniac. His intentions now are irrelevant, however telling his subsequent actions seem to be.

    Teachers are just that, teachers. Take their words, find your truth and always listen to your inner voice. I don't think we need to point fingers at James Ray but to find the compassion to educate others and heal our own hearts.
by DJ · 11 months ago
    Ditto!

    I am speechless. What are the authorities in the USA and Australia doing about these people? People have been crying out for help for years without anyone listening. People have been intimidated, manipulated, abused, threatened, silenced, deceived, stolen from, told they were so negative just because they have an opinion or question someone and the list goes on and on and not one authority has done anything about it. Now we have several deaths that have made it to the media both in the US and Australia but WHAT ARE THE AUTHORITIES DOING? These people need shutting down immediately, at least until a full investigation has been conducted into the teachers qualifications, students interviewed (and not the ones that these teaches think should be interviewed, the ones who have walked away in disgust which actually seems to be the majority now) and the business accounts of these people thoroughly and forensically investigated. I would be a very very willing participant,thanks
by Karin Hiebert · 11 months ago
    Ditto -- to what Duff SAID!

    Read more;

    saltydroid.info
by Corinne · 11 months ago
    I was a member of Seaside Church in Encinitas, CA where James Ray's Parents both attend regularly. James Ray brought his "building wealth" seminar to us for a nominal fee, and when I went up to talk to him about my hesitation to pay $750 (after I'd already spent close to 10k on Judith Kravitz's Transformational Breathwork, as well as on Byron Katie's The Work, I was about "GURU'd" "Motivational Speakered" OUT! When I said I couldn't afford it now, he immediately dismissed me & moved his eyes from me and on to the next person he could convice. I realized then that all these types of people who offer seminars are just unable to work in the "regular sector" and it is most unfortunate that so many are looking outside thenselves for what can ONLY be found from within, because all the answers you are looking for are already available to YOU by YOURSELF, no anyone else! Build your network for support amongst family and friends, not motivational speakers & workshop leaders--Love Yourself
by Henry · 11 months ago
    This is one of the best written report on this desateer event
    Iam a student of Stanislav Groff ..and its is shoking that he as
    mix the good name of dr Groff to this desaster
    Shoking ...and many more seminar are advertize James ray web sites who will stop him
by Ruth · 11 months ago
    While interesting, there's an awful lot of opinion and hearsay in this article. It's unfortunate that Cassanadra cannot name her sources, as I find it odd that no one else, anywhere that I've looked, has interviewed and reported on the personal experiences of the participants, including the participants themselves.

    None of us were there, and therefore, it's all speculation. It's a big fat mess, and we can only wait and see what happens next.

    Having said that, I will say I've been to two of James' seminars, and they were, literally, life-changing. My life and outlook has changed and for that I owe a huge thanks to James, because his work helped facilitate that change I so wanted and needed. I had no plans to go to any further seminars, not because I think he's a charlatan, snake oil salesman, etc, but because I got what I needed from him, and my lessons are taking me in a different direction.
by Ruth · 11 months ago
    Prt 2: And while the prices he charges are really outrageous, I still think the money I paid was completely worth it. What's is it worth to change your life around? Can you put a price on that? A powerful teacher indeed.
    But just because the teacher has failed spectacularly does not mean the teachings are not valid. Don't confuse the teachings with the teacher.
    I'm sure James' lawyers are saying, "Admit nothing!" but it doesn't matter whether he would increase his chances of going to jail by admitting any culpability--it was/is the right thing to do. Be accountable--that's James' mantra, and one I agree with. I cannot understand how leaving the scene, not being with those who were injured, refusing to talk to the police and refusing to say anything about his responsibility, is accountable. Yet, ultimately, I believe he will step up and be counted.
    And even though some of his devotees believe James is innocent, I'm quite sure this is going to haunt him for the rest of his days.
by Julie · 11 months ago
    Thank you for this information. I attended last year and I'm stunned and heartsick to hear James would not let them out. That's inexcusable! Our event was similar but also VERY different because we were all able to go out when we felt we needed to. Oh my God, no wonder it ended so badly! I was not aware they were actually trapped or blocked from leaving. If that is the case, it makes the tragedy even worse. Mental coersion is bad enough but also physically preventing them from leaving? My heart breaks for these people.
by Dan · 11 months ago
    Great rememberance of the event. One mistake, the Vision Quest was 24 hours in 2005. Otherwise reading this article was accurate. I chose to leave early in 2005. I was the first to exit and thank God that others followed me.
by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago
    Great comments everyone!

    Just to be clear, the above article is in reference to the October 2009 Spiritual Warrior retreat. While there is discussion on the 2005 event going on, I do not yet have enough information to speak authoratatively on that.
by Mourning. · 11 months ago
    Thank You.


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