Author Topic: aparently, adults want to go to programs too  (Read 26941 times)

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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Arizona sweat lodge death toll rises to three
« Reply #285 on: October 26, 2010, 12:18:37 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"

How do you explain to people they don't need someone like James Ray and his price tag $9000.00. That the peace they are looking for is free, you can "sweat" for free, safely. I don't get it.

What don't you get?  Just tell them.  Show them the articles, both pro and con, about Ray and his cashcow....then show them what a real sweat is and I think they'll be able to figure it out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Third Death After Sweat Lodge Ceremony
« Reply #286 on: November 01, 2010, 10:30:58 PM »
Another article about the third death from the sweat lodge tragedy...

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The New York Times
Third Death After Sweat Lodge Ceremony

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: October 18, 2009


FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) — A Minnesota woman died Saturday, more than a week after being overcome in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony.


Liz Neuman

The woman, Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, suffered multiple organ damage and was in a coma before she died at a hospital in Flagstaff. She was among dozens of people crowded into the sweat lodge on Oct. 8 at a resort just outside Sedona, a town 115 miles north of Phoenix, that draws many in the New Age spiritual movement.

Louis Diesel, a lawyer for Ms. Neuman's family, said it was clear that appropriate measures were not taken to prevent her death. Mr. Diesel said Sunday that he planned to file a lawsuit over her death.

Ms. Neuman, a divorced mother of three who worked as a computer data programmer, was "extremely athletic" and did not suffer from any medical problems, Mr. Diesel said.

A self-help expert and author, James Arthur Ray, had rented the Angel Valley Retreat Center for a five-day "Spiritual Warrior" event that culminated in a sweat lodge ceremony.

Fifty-five to 65 people were in the makeshift sweat lodge over a two-hour period. An emergency call reported two people without a pulse and not breathing.

Twenty-one people were taken to area hospitals with ailments including dehydration and kidney failure. Two people, Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee, died at a hospital.

The authorities were treating the deaths as homicides but have yet to determine the cause. Autopsy results for Ms. Brown and Mr. Shore were pending.

Mr. Ray wrote on his Facebook page on Sunday that he was deeply saddened by the news of death of Ms. Neuman, whom he had known for more than seven years.

"Liz was an amazing woman who touched so many lives," he wrote. "She'll be cherished and remembered by all. Liz, you're in our hearts forever. My continued love, prayers and support go out to her family in this time of grief and loss."

Ms. Neuman had attended Mr. Ray's events in the past and served as the leader of a Minneapolis-area "Journey Expansion Team," according to Mr. Ray's Web site. The teams, developed by Mr. Ray's friends and followers around the country, meet to exchange ideas on his principles.

A version of this article appeared in print on October 19, 2009, on page A17 of the New York edition.


Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ursus

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Progress report: James Ray sweat lodge scandal
« Reply #287 on: November 09, 2010, 12:11:14 AM »
Back to Cassandra Yorgey...

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Examiner.com
Progress report: James Ray sweat lodge scandal
October 19th, 2009 9:01 pm ET · Cassandra Yorgey

Many of you have wondered why I was not the first to post the news about the third death of a James Ray sweat lodge participant - Liz Neuman. I was made aware of it almost immediately and I continue to offer my condolences to her friends and family. Traditional media is all over covering that, so I did not feel I was needed or could really contribute to that conversation in a meaningful way. Sure, I have questions about James Ray's remarks that he had a friend looking over those who were still hospitalized, but I can't be the only one who noticed that. That is a worrisome response to accusations of undue influence over the mental state of others.

Many of you have also pointed out that I write for the internet and have exercised the opinion I am an unreliable source, especially since I continue to respect the anonymity of my sources. That's just fine with me. Most science-fiction and fantasy fans have a habit of turning up in unexpected places. It goes with the territory of having a wide range of interests that are not always related. We are the nerds, the geeks, the thinkers and the speculators. We toss around ideas like others toss around something I've heard termed a "football", whatever that is. Sure, there was some breaking news here, maybe there will be more, but now we get to the heart of the matter – the discussions.

I have publicly accused James Ray of indoctrinating minds and using that power unethically and I do not hide my contempt of such behavior. It is now in police hands to investigate, speak with experts in the field, etc. They will deal with him, but it is us that are left to clean up the mess James Ray left behind. Am I getting paid to do this? Well, yeah, but I get paid regardless of what I choose to discuss.

I am a nerdfighter and that means I have a vested interest in spreading awesome and decreasing world suck levels. When I sat around with my nerdfighter hat on, it occurred to me that the best way to fight any dangerous leader is by promoting information, awareness, and discussion. The best way to combat mind-control is with critical thinking. That is why I value the diverse discussion that has been going on in the comments. There are a lot, I mean a really, seriously, huge amount of things to discuss in relation to the James Ray tragedy. James Ray uses what appears to be a brilliant mixed modality that may be self-created. We can discuss the validity of his techniques - heck, the origin of the techniques – other organizations and individuals that use similar information, warning signs that unethical use is going on, what we should do about it. I mean there are literally as many ways to discuss this as there are people in the world. How do we distinguish the facts from the commentary and opinion? We use our own critical thinking skills and research and see what the experts are saying, of course.

In many ways I can identify with James Ray. I am a dabbler in many things and can discuss a wide variety of subjects with limited knowledge or expertise – but unlike him, I do not claim to have all the answers, quite the opposite. I like to learn stuff, all kinds of stuff, and I welcome everyone to join in the discussions I am going to continue to post. I do this because I do not fear having my ideas questioned. My ideas will either hold up under scrutiny or they will not. People are constantly thinking up things I have not, or bringing new information to my attention, or showing me a side of something I hadn’t thought about before. Those with well-reasoned ideas based on factual knowledge tend to be the best at changing my opinion on something or at least bringing to light a new challenge we have to look at while formulating a solution. Do I know everything that is going on right now? No, and I mean no! I am still sorting through fact and fiction to the best of my ability to contribute to this discussion in the most factual and helpful manner possible. Since I have started discussing James Ray and his sweat lodge tragedy many new leads and sources have come forward with things they would like me to look at and start a conversation about. I am continuing to look at it.
 
What can you do while you are waiting for me to post again? You can read the comments on my previous posts and join in the continuing discussion there or you can check out the links I put up in the sidebar to discussions I think are worth looking at, although I may not necessarily agree with everything (or anything) in them. Better yet, start your own discussions relating to an aspect of the case you are familiar with or recall your own good and bad experiences with James Ray and/or his teachings. In between writing, researching, and sleeping I will continue to sabotage my own paycheck by offering free advice on how best to cover this story to the traditional-media-type-people contacting me with offers of interviews; Offers that are then withdrawn, only to use my "pre-interview" information to find a new angle. Maybe they do not know I offer this advice for free to everyone, right here. I also offer a wide variety of opinions for free over on my LiveJournal, because (as you’ve no doubt noticed) sometimes I have opinions on things that do not relate to speculative fiction. Seriously, I could mine the James Ray scandal for years and compare and contrast his techniques to fact and fiction. It’s possible I just might. Either way, I am not nearly done on the subject.

Want to be notified of new articles? Subscribe to email notifications here.

Follow me on Twitter here.

In case the FTC is wondering, I do not endorse James Ray and he has never compensated me in any way.



Copyright © Clarity Digital Group LLC d/b/a Examiner.com.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ursus

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Comments: "Progress report: James Ray sweat lodge scandal"
« Reply #288 on: November 09, 2010, 12:20:02 AM »
Comments left for the above piece, "Progress report: James Ray sweat lodge scandal" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 19th, 2009; Examiner.com):


by Realist · 12 months ago
    Cassandra, thank you for the explanation which I regret that you felt compelled to write. I have been consumed with this story ever since it broke. My interest is stoked by personal experience that left me turned off, suspicious, and angry. Of all the blogs and direct news source articles I've heard or read in the past week, I always come back to yours. It is the most comprehensive, the most informative, and you examine and probe more angles than any other single source. Plus, the comments people leave in response to what your articles bring up for them are more thoughtful than those on practically any other site that deals with this man, and there are many digging for information and hoping to uncover more clues to his counterintuititive behavior.
by Realist · 12 months ago
    Cassandra, thank you for the explanation which I regret that you felt compelled to write. I have been consumed with this story ever since it broke. My interest is stoked by personal experience that left me turned off, suspicious, and angry. Of all the blogs and direct news source articles I've heard or read in the past week, I always come back to yours. It is the most comprehensive, the most informative, and you examine and probe more angles than any other single source. Plus, the comments people leave in response to what your articles bring up for them are more thoughtful than those on practically any other site that deals with this man, and there are many digging for information and hoping to uncover more clues to his counterintuititive behavior.
by Hurt by James Ray · 12 months ago
    Cassandra I really think your articles are providing alot of information on James Ray. Keep them coming. In response to Curious from your previous article: Hi Cassandra, Can you check this out please? Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
    Did she die while attending a "group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall" as part of the seminar?

    Yes Colleen as at the Absolute Wealth seminar and was at the mall for the group field trip. She became seperated from the group and she later jumped from the third floor balcony. As stated in a previous post no one was told of anyone missing from their group or of anyone jumping at the mall.

    Can someone please provide info as to what you do when you go on these field trips? Do you beg for money? Follow people around? What would of made Colleen think that there was nothing she could do but end her life to get out of the grasp of James Ray?
by Ace · 12 months ago
    Hurt by James Ray?, the Horton Plaza Mall exercise is most likely the one where JR dresses everyone up in ripped up and tattered clothes with dirt and gunk smeared on their faces and in there hair to pose as homeless people on the streets of SD for a couple of hours. People are asked to play full on as if they were homeless; meaning some asked for food and money while other did not. Others were there but at the CAW I was at in 2004 we were told to avoid other participants. It was suppose to be an individual challenge. After the fact as some of us talked about our experience amongst ourselves it was reveled that some people faced dangerous situations. That is why when I first read about this I wondered if she had been harmed by someone she encountered during her time on the streets. My wife had a rather large man pursuing her to go home with him if he was more aggressive who know what would have happen and I was threatened because I was in another homeless person?s turf.
by Hurt by James Ray · 12 months ago
    Ace, thank you for your comments. I appreciate knowing a little more as so what she was doing at the group field trip. I know it won't bring her back, but it helps a little.

    She was not followed or anything like that at the mall that we know of. We know she became seperated from the group and they didn't know where she was. The video shows that she jumped and was not pushed. We can only assume that she realized that she had charged a tremendous amount of money to her credit card and even though this was her 4th JAR event she wasn't going to get the answers she was looking for. She was all alone, felt helpless and decided that she didn't know how to face the debt and chose to end it all right there. Which is too bad because her friends and family would have been there for her, which she should of known, but with the brain washing she been through she apparantly wasn't thinking straight. The only thing I can hope is, with all of these stories it saves someone from this.
by Ace · 12 months ago
    Hurt by James Ray?, the Horton Plaza Mall exercise is most likely the one where JR dresses everyone up in ripped up and tattered clothes with dirt and gunk smeared on their faces and in there hair to pose as homeless people on the streets of SD for a couple of hours. People are asked to play full on as if they were homeless; meaning some asked for food and money while other did not. Others were there but at the CAW I was at in 2004 we were told to avoid other participants. It was suppose to be an individual challenge. After the fact as some of us talked about our experience amongst ourselves it was reveled that some people faced dangerous situations. That is why when I first read about this I wondered if she had been harmed by someone she encountered during her time on the streets. My wife had a rather large man pursuing her to go home with him if he was moreaggressive who know what would have happen and I was threatened because I was in another homeless person?s turf.
by Saturn · 12 months ago
    James Ray addresses his critics on his blog... The official jamesraydotcom one...

    Excerpt: "People are throwing out accusations and disparaging me and our mission. Yet despite that, and despite considerable criticism, I have chosen to continue with my work. It's too important not to."

    Of course it's important... James is gonna have some hefty legal bills to pay!
by Andrea de Michaelis · 12 months ago
    I just discovered your pages about James Ray n am enjoying your writing. I may not agree with everything you say but you make me think n see things from another angle. In the past 17 years I've published Florida's new age magazine, Horizons, n I've seen lots of people get wrapped up in this guru n that; even smart people, even knowledgeable, informed people. Folks are so ready for change n deliverance from their boring n routine lives that they gladly place their trust in whoever has the most compelling spiel. They want to die to their old selves n be re-born again. It's not that they're willing to risk their lives for it, it's that they haven't seriously contemplated the consequences of their choices. They frantically go from one guru to another, one workshop to the next, waiting for someone to magically make it all better. They don't take much time for critical thought or inner work. Then they attract situations they resonate in "vibrational" harmony with and don't know why.
by Ex JRI Warrior · 12 months ago
    not very surprising......here is an exerpt from an article in the Prescott News
    Family Not Notified of Victim's Fate By Sweat Lodge Organizers:
    "Liz spent several years of her life as a faithful follower of the teachings of James Arthur Ray. She put her faith and her trust in this man. To not hear anything from him or his company for over a week is inexcusable, We expected more in return from this relationship than silence and insensitivity ."

    The family was eventually able to locate Ms. Neuman over 24 hours after she was admitted to Flagstaff Medical Center. She had been admitted as a "Jane Doe," no one was available to make an identification of the patient upon admission to the hospital. She had suffered multiple organ damage and eventually fell into a coma before passing away from her injuries . The family had not heard from James Ray International until Sunday the 18th, after Ms. Neuman had already passed away- ten days after the sweat lodge event in Sedona had taken place."It
by Cynthia Gracie · 12 months ago
    Thank you for exposing this snake-oil salesman. I hope the authorities throw the book at him.

    I attended sweat lodges with Northeast Woods Indians in Northern Vermont which were attended by Indians from all over the U.S., and I never heard of any Native Americans conducting sweat lodges like Ray's, especially the numbers in the lodge and his days-long fasting with no water in order to "prepare" participants. What he did was exploitative and inhumane.

    I'm also a former member of an eastern meditation personality cult of which I was a member for 20 years. I know very well how cults and their leaders work to indoctrinate and control people's bodies, minds, and souls.

    A decent primer about cults is refocus.org. I've recommended this to ex-cult members for many years.

    Keep up the good writing on this and thanks again.

    Vermont
by Dianne · 12 months ago
    Cassandra--thanks for what you are doing here. I'd appreciate some advice about how to get the mainstream media to do more investigating. Why isn't the media following this guy? There should have been cameras outside his recent event this past weekend that he continued to put on in spite of Liz Neuman's death. Why are dozens of camera men outside the 'balloon guy's' house, but no one outside JR's house? I'm really confused as to why no one seems to be following this story as deeply as you are. Please go into more detail about this man's brainwashing techniques--I'm sure you've already discovered rickross.com which has a lot of interesting information on how men like JR hold people in their sway. Please also check out an article on Narcissistic Personality Disorder in spiritual gurus by Linda Martinez-Lewi in ezinearticles.com. Fits James Ray perfectly. Dr. Martinez-Lewi might be a great person to interview.
by John · 12 months ago
    I wonder if JR is possessed. I have seen him throw astral hooks on people to manipulate them.

    He is doing a diservice to the spiritual awakening going on right now. But this karma will come back to haunt him and his ambition.

    Hopefully he wakes up to the damage he has done.

    Peace
by Cassandra Yorgey · 12 months ago
    Dianne says "I'd appreciate some advice about how to get the mainstream media to do more investigating."

    Yeah, me too, Diane. Me too.

    In Fantasyland Hero School it is taught that if you are unable to get help with something that must be done it must mean you are destined to do it yourself. In this interest we have all been working day and night to spread this discussion in as many communities as we can, in any capacity we can. You have all done an amazing job in helping me and I thank you. We will find the truth and then we will talk about it. Becacuse this is the internet, and that is what we do.


Copyright © Clarity Digital Group LLC d/b/a Examiner.com.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Inculcated

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James Ray Criminal Trial
« Reply #289 on: March 14, 2011, 04:22:23 PM »
The triple manslaughter trial AZ v. James Ray continues to be covered on court TV this week, showing footage of testimony heard on Friday. Clips of testimony include descriptions of his responses and lack of response. One woman tells of him ignoring an injured woman who was calling out for him, adding “He just kept walking, he was completely out of touch”
Another clip tells of a man who had suffered from the heat and who had quieted after screaming “I don’t want to die”. When this man saw James Ray he told him “James, I died and I came back”. James reportedly did elect to respond to this person and he is said to have congratulated him.

Strangely their (CTV) question of the day for viewers to text their answers to was “What sort of power do think James Ray had inside that sweat lodge?”
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“A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

Offline heretik

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Re: James Ray Criminal Trial
« Reply #290 on: March 14, 2011, 06:17:44 PM »
Quote from: "Inculcated"
The triple manslaughter trial AZ v. James Ray continues to be covered on court TV this week, showing footage of testimony heard on Friday. Clips of testimony include descriptions of his responses and lack of response. One woman tells of him ignoring an injured woman who was calling out for him, adding “He just kept walking, he was completely out of touch”
Another clip tells of a man who had suffered from the heat and who had quieted after screaming “I don’t want to die”. When this man saw James Ray he told him “James, I died and I came back”. James reportedly did elect to respond to this person and he is said to have congratulated him.

Strangely their (CTV) question of the day for viewers to text their answers to was “What sort of power do think James Ray had inside that sweat lodge?”


Jeesh!!!! IDK, maybe that of the tsunami that rolled over Japan. Like I said though IDK.    :wall:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #291 on: June 23, 2011, 07:56:16 AM »
   


Sweat Lodge "guru" convicted on 3 counts!!!!!!


Looks like it didn't take the jury long either.  They started deliberations on Tuesday, came back with the guilty verdicts Wednesday.  Of course, like Miller Newton, nothing seems to stop these malignant narcissists.  Wait til you get to the last sentence.  


http://http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/22/national/main20073479.shtml

(AP)

CAMP VERDE, Ariz. — A self-help author who led a deadly sweat lodge ceremony in Arizona was found guilty of three counts of negligent homicide Wednesday.

Jurors in the case against James Arthur Ray began deliberating Tuesday after a four-month trial.

Ray showed no reaction as the verdict was read. His parents and brother sat behind him, while victims' family members and friends held hands and looked on from across the courtroom.

Prosecutors asked that Ray be taken into custody immediately, but the judge denied the request.

More than 50 people participated in the October 2009 sweat lodge that was meant to be the highlight of Ray's five-day "Spiritual Warrior" seminar near Sedona.

Three people died following the sauna-like ceremony meant to provide spiritual cleansing. Eighteen were hospitalized, while several others were given water to cool down at the scene. Prosecutors and defense attorneys disagreed over whether the deaths and illnesses were caused by heat or toxins.

Ray's attorneys have maintained the deaths were a tragic accident. Prosecutors argued Ray recklessly caused the fatalities.

Ray used the sweat lodge as a way for participants to break through whatever was holding them back in life. He warned participants in a recording of the event played during the trial that the sweat lodge would be "hellacious" and that participants were guaranteed to feel like they were dying but would do so only metaphorically.

"The true spiritual warrior has conquered death and therefore has no fear or enemies in this lifetime or the next, because the greatest fear you'll ever experience is the fear of what? Death," Ray said in the recording. "You will have to get a point to where you surrender and it's OK to die."

Witnesses have described the scene following the two-hour ceremony as alarming and chaotic, with people dragging "lifeless" and "barely breathing" participants outside and volunteers performing CPR.

Two participants — Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee — died upon arrival at a hospital. Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minn., slipped into a coma and died more than a week later at a Flagstaff hospital.

In court Wednesday, members of Neuman's family and a friend of Brown held hands while the verdict was read.

Ray's attorneys maintained the deaths were nothing but a tragic accident, and said Ray took all the necessary precautions to ensure participants' safety. They contend authorities botched the investigation and failed to consider that toxins or poisons contributed to the deaths and called two witnesses to support that argument.

Prosecutors relied heavily on Ray's own words to try to convince the jury that he was responsible for the deaths. They said a reasonable person would have stopped the "abomination of a sweat lodge" when participants began exhibiting signs of distress about halfway through the ceremony.

Sweat lodges typically are used by American Indians to rid the body of toxins by pouring water over heated rocks in the structure.

Ray became a self-help superstar by using his charismatic personality and convincing people his words would lead them to spiritual and financial wealth. He used free talks to recruit people to expensive seminars like the Sedona retreat that led to the sweat lodge tragedy. Participants paid up to $10,000 for the five-day program intended to push people beyond their physical and emotional limits.

Ray's popularity soared after appearing in the 2006 Rhonda Byrne documentary "The Secret," and Ray promoted it on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" and "Larry King Live."

But his multimillion-dollar self-help empire was thrown into turmoil with the sweat lodge deaths. Ray ended his seminars shortly after but has continued to offer advice throughout his trial via the Internet and social networking sites.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/ ... z1Q679cedX
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Wh??ter

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #292 on: June 23, 2011, 09:27:04 AM »
Welcome back, Anne.  Glad to see you here getting into the discussion.  I think this will be overturned on appeal.  Those people could have walked out whenever they wanted to but they choose to stay.



...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #293 on: June 24, 2011, 01:06:56 AM »
Awwww, where's DannyB to defend this piece of shit??  :roflmao:  This was his guy!  His mentor, his guru.  Who he wanted to be, IMO.  


New Warrior Men!!!!




Shitbag gave the families $5k.  1/2 of what they paid to die and a fraction of what he's made off of these vulnerable people seeking real spiritual advice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #294 on: June 24, 2011, 11:24:13 PM »
I must confess, I haven't kept up with my news coverage of this case. I got burnt out.

 :suicide:
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