Author Topic: aparently, adults want to go to programs too  (Read 26694 times)

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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #225 on: August 30, 2010, 10:09:49 AM »
So, Whooter.....what do you think of DannyBoi's threats to me and others?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #226 on: August 30, 2010, 12:49:18 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
So, Whooter.....what do you think of DannyBoi's threats to me and others?

I didnt see any threats,  I have been looking at DJ's and my trolling posts in the old TheWho thread.  So I havent kept up much here the last day.



...
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #227 on: August 30, 2010, 01:03:20 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
So, Whooter.....what do you think of DannyBoi's threats to me and others?

I didnt see any threats


 :roflmao:  

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


You are so full of shit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: aparently, adults want to go to programs too
« Reply #228 on: August 30, 2010, 01:21:15 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 09:04:29 PM by DannyB II »
Stand and fight, till there is no more.

Offline Ursus

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Desperate 911 Call: First Glimpse
« Reply #229 on: September 09, 2010, 01:54:12 PM »
Getting back to the story at hand...

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CBSnews.com — CRIMESIDER
October 15, 2009 6:30 AM

Desperate 911 Call: First Glimpse Into Angel Valley Sweat Lodge Deaths
Posted by Edecio Martinez

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (CBS/AP) A newly released 911 call is now offering a first glimpse into what really happened inside an Arizona sweat lodge, leaving two people dead and more hospitalized.

KPHO: 911 Calls From Sweat Lodge Incident (Mp3)

"Two people aren't breathing," the caller said while panting. "Two have no pulse."

Those two people were 38-year-old Kirby Brown of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee. They died shortly after emergency workers removed them from the sweat lodge on Oct. 8.

Brown and Shore and more than 50 others had come to Angel Valley Resort in Sedona, Ariz., to listen to the teachings of spiritual and financial guru James Arthur Ray.

Participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness before entering a 415-square-foot makeshift structure of wood and fabric that was filled with fire-heated stones.

It's not clear what type of financial wizardry Ray was offering inside the super-heated tent. Perhaps he was explaining how it's possible to get scores of people to pay up to $10,000 for a two-day retreat in the desert.

At those rates, the deadly retreat earned around half-a-million in revenue. It's not clear if Ray returned the funds to the victims' survivors. Neither his company nor his press agency returned phone messages from Crimesider.

On the day in question, between 55 and 65 participants had eaten a breakfast buffet after a 36-hour fast, and entered the tent around 3 p.m.

Two hours later a 911 call was made which said two people had no pulse and weren't breathing.

"They're both unconscious, no pulse, they're not breathing," said the 911 caller. "There's a lot of people here."

Police said participants were highly encouraged, but not forced, to remain inside the crudely built sweat lodge for the entire two-hour ceremony.

Fire department reports released Tuesday show the incident wasn't the first involving a sweat lodge ceremony at the resort.

Verde Valley Fire Chief Jerry Doerksen said his department responded to a 911 call in October 2005 about a person who was unconscious after being in a sweat lodge.

Angel Valley resort owner Amayra Hamilton confirmed that Ray was leading the ceremony during the 2005 event.

Autopsies on Brown and Shore were conducted, but the results are being withheld pending additional tests. Carbon monoxide poisoning was ruled out as a cause of the deaths and illnesses.

Meanwhile, the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office continued to investigate last week's ceremony to determine if criminal negligence played a role in the deaths or illnesses. No charges have been filed.


Copyright ©2010 CBS Interactive Inc.
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Offline Ursus

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Comments for "Desperate 911 Call: First Glimpse..."
« Reply #230 on: September 09, 2010, 02:13:45 PM »
Interesting Comment left for the above article, "Desperate 911 Call: First Glimpse Into Angel Valley Sweat Lodge Deaths" (by Edecio Martinez; Oct. 15, 2009; CBS Crimesider):


by JosiahTapper · October 18, 2009 2:39 PM EDT
    Im appauled at how the Media idiots depict James Ray and their refrences to him and what he charges for thte retreats. WHO CARES WHAT IT COSTS, "A MAN IS WORTH HIS WAGE" AND THE SAME THING GOES FOR THE NATURAL CURES FOR CANCER...EITHER U PAY MONEY NOW FOR A HEALTHY LIFE, OR YOU PAY MONEY LATER TO BE SICK....IF HE CHARGES A MILLION DOLLARS, SO WHAT?!?!?....


Copyright ©2010 CBS Interactive Inc.
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Offline Ursus

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Breaking news: Transcript of private call...
« Reply #231 on: September 10, 2010, 07:27:07 PM »
Emphasis as per the original:

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Examiner.com
Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims
October 15th, 2009 2:32 am ET · Cassandra Yorgey

Mind control is a subject commonly found in works of speculative fiction, but rarely in reality. Self-help guru James Arthur Ray is the latest to use mind-control, called coercive persuasion among psychologists, in the sweat lodge tragedy that occurred last week. James Ray is currently under investigation for two deaths and 19 additional hospitalizations that occurred at his Spiritual Warrior Retreat last week in Sedona, AZ during the sweat lodge portion.

Last night James Ray made his first public statement regarding the tragedy and today he had a conference call that was only for the victims of his latest retreat-gone-wrong. Why does James Ray want to have private communication with his victims? What is he hiding? It would appear that he is psychologically tampering with witnesses as well as continuing to hit them up for money, trying to enroll them into more of his programs, and giving them bad advice. What proof do I have of this? Today I received a transcript of this call from a victim that wishes to remain anonymous. I have great respect and sympathy for all the victims, their families, and what they are going through in this trying time, so I will not post the transcript in its entirety. I want to protect the victims that are not yet ready to speak out but I will gladly post everything James Ray and his staff said though, because it is inexcusable and he must be brought to accountability.

The call started with Greg (a staff member) explaining the purpose of the call was to bring closure to the retreat and to give James Ray a chance to interact with everyone. Next, Greg introduced Katie Carlson as an international follower of James Ray and strongly urged everyone to seek guidance about this tragedy with her, even though she is not certified as a counselor. I'd like to repeat that because of the crazy factor – he urged people to consult someone who is in no way certified in the fields of therapy. Why would he refer trauma victims to a non-professional to cope with this tragedy? Because James Ray and his staff kept stressing the importance of turning to others in the James Ray community for support, or as James Ray kept referring to his followers "Harmonic minded individuals". This is a huge warning sign of cult activities – turning to unqualified people for help only because they are members. Cults focus their members inwards in an attempt to cut off outside influences.

"Harmonic minded individuals" is bad enough but another phrase James Ray and staff kept using was "those who have fallen ill" apparently he is choosing to portray this as some sort of disease or sickness, as opposed to the reality - they are suffering from overexposure to dangerous levels of heat that is a direct consequence of James Ray's actions in the sweat lodge. Even more astounding is how many victims were agreeing with James Ray, even though they themselves are still recovering from injuries he imposed upon them. This raises serious questions about the levels of indoctrination James Ray has achieved among his followers – they are willing to support him even after he almost killed them. Some even espoused the near death experience as transformative and praised James Ray for it, even while they discussed the physical problems they are still struggling to overcome. I have heard similar sentiments from other people who suffered from the effects of coercive persuasion – cult members, abused teenagers from wilderness therapy programs, etc.

The words of the staff are bad enough, but barely scratch the surface of what James Ray himself stated. He starts by saying "I really wanted to be with you all on the final night and my thoughts were consisistenly with everyone who was having challenges." Of course, he neglects to mention why he wasn't there with everyone, because he was not in police custody – he was on his way out of the state. Doesn't seem like he really wanted to be there then, huh?

He goes on to say "I just kept thinking 'I have to take care of my people'." How he could even utter those words after his gross failure to take care of them during the retreat when they needed it is beyond me. James Ray insists to the callers that "this is something I have never been confronted with before" and George and Amayra Hamilton, the owners of Angel Valley Retreat (where the sweat lodge was held), have repeatedly backed him in news reports. However, "not been confronted" is not the same as "never happened before" and the fire department released information that something exactly like this has happened before. In 2005 a call was placed to 911 because of another sweat lodge being run by James Ray at the same Angel Valley Retreat center. Furthermore, the police are investigating James Ray's retreats at multiple other locations.

Another catch-phrase James Ray and staff kept using is "remember your teachings" and "remind you of what you know" which he used a lot while saying "just be good to yourself. This is the most important time, its always important, to practice what you know, eat right… You gotta eat and you gotta eat healthy. You gotta get your workouts in, speaking from experience, sometimes you don't feel like it but you gotta get rest and eat right." That's strange advice coming from James Ray, the very same person who deprived them of food, water, and sleep for 36+ hours right before shutting them in the sweat lodge.

James continued, "As restless as your mind might be, take 15 to 20 minutes to slow down and remember who you are. Next it's important to surround yourself with healthy harmonic minded individuals who support you and love you. Hopefully you've connected with support, and if you haven't please, please do because this community is coming together like never before and there is lots of support around the world. I'm sending [unclear] to all those who took ill and also those that transitioned and left this physical life, you can only give what you have and you can't give what you're not. Again lets all remind each other of what we know." The first part sounds like followers struggle with their sense of self unless they are around other followers, the last part of the quote doesn't even make sense, and he wraps up with more repetition.

"I have an incredible support group in my life and it's been invaluable. I know Greg and Megan left me a voicemail last Friday and I saved it and listen to it several times a day. It's important to do these things. That's why we have Katie, she has experience and knows how to do these things." Katie is present on the call and agrees that these things are important. I guess it's nice that James Ray listens to his friends' messages on repeat, but I am not sure that would qualify as important in the grieving process. It is also unclear as to what Katie has contributed to the exchange, other than agreement, which means very little as she is not a qualified therapist. Nor is James Ray, while we're discussing it.

"Now is the time to rise above the mood and use what you know. It's OK to grieve. I feel grief, but in the midst of that you have to do the things that will keep you healthy and that are best for every one of our family members who are still ill or deceased." Again, James Ray is heavy on the repetition. "Use what you know" is such a dangerous catchphrase because the very act of making it a catchphrase encourages people to replace actual thinking with oft spouted empty words. Notice also how he calls the victims "family members". Most of these people only met last week, hardly long enough to form bonds of friendship, let alone familial ties. I would think it would be healthier for the victims to turn to their actual families and loved ones, but like Katie and James Ray, I am not qualified to give counseling. It would be best to ask a licensed therapist about such things.

"We all know the power of prayer, studies prove it. [Let's have a] moment of silence for those who have taken ill and for those in recovery and for those that are family members of those who transitioned. A moment of silence to do what we will to send our brightest intentions and love to all those involved including ourselves. Envision all of us in a circle if you will. Let's take a deep breath in. Breathe in. And out. You know what to do. Be the light in the darkness for ourselves and each other for all involved. Envision ourselves standing together in a circle, as we have so many times before, and as we stay in that circle we can press *6 to mute out our line if we're being noisy."

Everyone beeps their line while they follow his command.

"Take a breath in. Out. Remembering who we are and what we know. Remembering that we are here in this special time in world history to make a major positive difference in a world that needs it so much. Knowing that we can and that we are. Next breath in. And out. Loving ourselves and allowing ourselves to experience whatever we experience and loving ourselves because the only way to go beyond it is to [unclear]. We [unclear] energy in this circle, breath in and out. Remembering all that we've learned and experienced and knowing the laws of the universe that every [unclear] chaos comes order that never existed before the chaos, moving elegantly through chaos to facilitate the order. Knowing a higher power than what we know conciously is guiding and directing us. No matter what we feel in the moment we are guided and protected always. Imagine ourselves standing in a pyramid of light and on the next breath take all intentionality and experience into the heart and crown chakra. Through the heart of each of us here now, into the crown, out through the heart, connecting all of us here and now. Breathe in and out. Irrelevant who is here, the unconscious mind knows and the universe knows. Now that we are connected I [unclear] to heartfelt energy [unclear] infinite [unclear] to still hospitalized. To their highest good and rapid healing at whatever level that may be. Breathe in and out through heart and all those who may still be hospitalized breathing in an out. Send out to all those how have taken ill for their rapid healing and breakthrough for new level - breathe in and out through the heart. We just feel the energy going out. Individuals who transitioned out of this physical life feel love and support of God and energy to assist them in this time of grief and challenge. Breathe in and out through the hearts of families, bathing them and supporting them in this moment. Final breath back to ourselves. Support each other, re-bond this community. In and out to the hearts of each other. Vibrating and pulsating through our bodies in this moment and we step forward acting upon this moment and the laws of the universe. So be it and it is."

"Let me say one more thing before I turn it over to Barb. Barb, *6 again to share. I did an event in L.A last night, last thing I wanted to do, would rather stay home and meditate and heal but it was the right thing to do. It was a commitment and same with San Diego tonight. Many are discussing [attending] summit, and the bottom line is i made a commitment and people are flying in. There has never been a more important time to stay dialed in to thoughts of hope, thoughts of possibility and to be reminded of the things all the greatest teachers [have taught]. I know most of you are going. It will help you to be there. It will feed your soul. What we're doing is necessary so I'm gonna be there and give it my best. Barb, will you now tell us a little about what you experienced during the closing ceremony?"

This, I think, is the worst part of the entire conference call. Barb is one of James Ray's staff members and she goes on to talk "of the two that had passed and they left their bodies during the ceremony and had so much fun they chose not to come back and that was their choice that they made." This is going to be really hard for James Ray and his people to explain when the autopsy results are released, because people do not cook themselves to death. They just don't. Barb implying they do is asserting James Ray's innocence and falsely supporting that the survivors are alive because they chose to live. In actuality, James Ray had to be interrupted and the participants were physically removed from the sweat lodge because they were not capable of transporting themselves.

The rest of Barb's words were less offensive, but still rather odd. "There were a number of us that were still there Friday afternoon. We had all been sharing and working through the processes and Angel Valley and [unclear] and Friday evening one of them did [unclear] with cleansing for various sights they had been on and a session with everyone still on site. I gotta say they opened up their hearts and [unclear] he opened up, got into her mode and I believe she was channeling some of the spirits from Angel Valley and she opened it up for questions that anyone wanted to ask, but I don't remember them all."

"This is bringing attention to how sweat lodges should be used. The next morning the police had cleared the site and then Angel Valley could take the shelter down and burn it."

"We were in the dining hall the next day and got a circle together and did prayer pouches to put on fire to honor the process the participants went through on their vision quest. We had tobacco, material, and strings that varied people had and Angel Valley gave cornmeal and we sat in a circle and talked about who and what we wanted to do with all the pouches. We made a pouch for those who passed, James Ray, James Ray International, the hospitalized, all the participants, and last is all encompassing for everyone on the globe being affected by this. Saturday in circle we held hands, took hot breath, and sand for each pouch took intentions and [unclear] that pouch for intentions and prayers for that particular person represented. Instead of leaving in the string we tied it in a circle to represent togetherness. After that we went to the sweat lodge area and everything had been taken off except the wooden structure. We gathered around and all the participants of the dream team who were left stood in the north, at that point some Angel Valley people spoke and opened up to anyone who [wanted to speak]. People really spoke about embracing the dark and the light."

"Some spoke of being next to those who were dead or sick, others of the teaching the rest of the week and [how] it was exactly what they needed to [unclear] higher evolution. Some spoke of the use of sweat lodges in the future. Everyone was quiet for a bit. Everyone spoke of embracing the light if anyone had anger or frustration [unclear] that they really need to not hold that within ourselves. I can't remember if anyone spoke but I think if [unclear] it was expressed in themselves and not spoken words."

Barb spoke of dismantling the sweat lodge. "The tradtional way is to cut or untie the strings that held the wood together. It took a while to take it down but we [unclear]. Ffter we had that kind of filled we took the grandfathers and put them in the shape of a heart around the pit. Participants [unclear] on the ground and that was tied through the circle of pouches we created that morning that [unclear] held up and put both pouches on [unclear] and that represented our intentions for [unclear] and the other string of pouches from [unclear] represented all of the participants that didn't make it to the fire [unclear]."

"And then matches were passed around for everyone and we all struck a match and helped to light the fire and watched the fire and said what was in their hearts."

James Ray ended Barb's story. "Hopefully all of you appreciate hearing that as well as I did reading it and hearing it again. Greg you were gonna say something?"

Greg chimes in. "Thank you very much Barb, that helps a lot. I did want to acknowledge Katie, she is available and [unclear] contact us to be in contact with Katie, everything you have she can help with. At this point Katie, is there anything you want to add or say?"

Katie, the not qualified to be counseling anyone on grieving follower of James Ray, says "For the most part it is OK to feel what you're feeling and don't do it alone. You guys really know how to journal, get those feeling out of you. Make sure you connect with anyone, especially Harmonic like-minded individuals. There's a ton of people out there for you."

"Thank you Katie"

"My pleasure."

Greg continues, "I would like to open up to anyone, I know there's a lot of you, I want to be sure that out of respect we stick with our own feelings and how we can best support each other."

This is when the survivors begin to share and I cannot in good conscience repeat their private feelings. I will say that many had difficulty recalling the experience clearly and many thanked the others for pulling them to safety while they were incapacitated.

James Ray wraps up the call with "I love you guys with all my heart. I've thought about each and every one of you. The families. Nonstop. I would have loved to have been with you that night. Please, please let me remind you since [retracted] said she was late, as a reminder, take care of yourself. Now more than ever stay plugged in. As hard as it was for me I told Megan and Greg it was every bit as healing to go speak to those people last night as it was for them. Stay plugged in, eat exercise, talk to Kaite and stay connected with this community. I give you 110% of what I have. Thank you so much for who you are and what you are doing for each other and the world. Highest prayers for the families and those taken ill and a speedy recovery. Love you lots."

Read part two: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat

Read an interview: Brett Merle, former wilderness program owner speaks out about NLP and proper safety measures for programs such as James Ray's

    Want to be notified of new articles? Subscribe to email notifications here.

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    In case the FTC is wondering, I do not endorse James Ray and he has never compensated me in any way.
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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 1-25
    « Reply #232 on: September 11, 2010, 06:27:10 PM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 1-25:


    by seminar junkie · 11 months ago
      If you want a life-altering experience, I'd recommend you attend seminars and read books by self-help experts like Tony Robbins and James Arthur Ray.
    by Kyle · 11 months ago
      If you knew James Arthur Ray and what he stands for, you would never say these hurtful things about him and classify him in the dangerous 'cult-like' figure. The man has dedicated his life to helping people learn about themselves because it is never taught to us in the fraudulent education system we all should be ashamed of. Again, media jumping to conclusions without all the facts. Typical, disgraceful journalism.
    by Chris · 11 months ago
      I am not a "follower" of James Ray, but I have read his works and have attended one of his seminars. He offers what I consider to be good personal development advice in many areas. He can also get very esoteric when it comes to spiritual teachings, therefore I prefer to stick to more mainstream people like Tony Robbins. I do not understand why James Ray left the scene of this incident, however I think your "cult" portrayal of him and his followers is going way too far. You need to look at his entire body of work.
    by Gina · 11 months ago
      I thank you for sharing this. I gave been in sweats run by real native Americans (becuz. Am native American). It is blatantly obvious to me that this lodge was poorly run. He pretty much ripped those people off. And to send people off on a visionquest?!!! He had a great lack of knowledge about what he was doing.
    by FT · 11 months ago
      people are asking questions if there was another death during a James Ray seminar 2 months ago in July 2009.
      search the WWW and google for the name,

      Colleen Marian Conaway

      Woman in fatal Horton Plaza fall identified.
      Colleen Marian Conaway died in San Diego attending a seminar on Saturday July 25, 2009.

      Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
      Did she die while attending a group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall as part of the seminar?
    by Anonymous · 11 months ago
      If James Ray had been so dedicated in his life with his teachings he wouldn't have been charging for it. It shouldve come from the pure joy of getting the word out there. But no. James got greedy and it became all about the money. Charging $9000 to show your dedication is not a worthy cause to say the least. James' gross neglegance with his power of influence and his desire to play God with other peoples lives is a severly distorted attempt at imperical rule, and again all because of the wealth. Not harmonic wealth but monetary wealth to sustain his very empire. The journalIsm here was spot on and I am sad to see that if so many of you were true believers you'd be a little more open minded to all sides of the story being told so that the truth may reveal itself! James has become lost among the souls of the world that bind themselves to monetary glory. He needs to held accountable for playing God with someone elses life.
    by t.golden · 11 months ago
      good job getting hold of this transcript so that people can hear what is really going on rather than hearsay.i think its eye opening. i do wish you had included what the participants were saying as well and Ray's response to them, as i think thats an important part of the story, even though you could have changed their names.
    by John Curtis · 11 months ago
      Please, could someone, anyone provide a single legitimate, scholarly research study worthy of publication in a professional journal that substantiates the actual "documentable" benefits of the work of any of these multimillionaire gurus?

      As the definition at Americans Against Self-Help Fraud states...

      "Self-Help fraud is to claim that a certain belief, method or practice improves mental health, personal life circumstances or interpersonal relationships without providing valid, supporting scientific evidence!"

      Please, could we all go in search of our nearly extinct critical thinking skills, dust them off, and begin to analyze these gurus and their claims. Those who pursue spiritual enlightenment are generally intelligent people but for the life of me, I cannot understand why they often make such dumb decisions about where and how to find what they are looking for.... $10,000 to sweat your way to a better life. YIKES! "Smart People; Foolish Choices!?
    by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago
      Hi everyone, thanks for commenting. Even the one who called me 'disgraceful'. No, really. I think it is deeply awesome that we have a two sided discussion going on here. I strive for open communication and multi-sided conversations. Please feel free to keep talking about this here, I offer you all my comment space, to anyone who wants to discuss this openly. I do ask that we all treat each other with respect though. For those of you concerned I am not giving James Ray a fair shot, well, I can't wait for you to see the exclusive interview that I have going up next. I was familiar with James Ray's work before this retreat, and I cannot deny there is some value to parts of his work. If James Ray is uncomfortable with my pegging him as a cult leader, well, then he should stop ordering people to cook themselves alive, because then I will stop referring to him as a cult. I, however, will continue to look to Albus Dumbledore for my moral guidance.
    by Rachel · 11 months ago
      I would agree with 'seminar junkie'on 1 point-This quack's seminars are life altering alright, as in no longer alive.

      Thanks Cassandra for this excellent piece. We see this over and over and over with cults. How they are able to sucker in otherwise intelligent people is mind-boggling. I think Ray's own words in this transcript say it all. I hope this greedy charlatan is sued for everything he has. This is absolutely shameful behavior and cannot be allowed to continue.
    by Eoghan · 11 months ago
      In terms of sensationalising, you've taken some severe liberties with your claims. Foremost of which I find hilarious that you "accuse" James Ray of encouraging the victims of eating well and staying healthy. And on the grounds that they were fasting while on his retreat? Seriously?

      And then you accuse him of hitting up the victims for money, by which he talks of his commitment to an upcoming event which many of the group are already going to. This is not a sales pitch, this is an confirmation that the event will continue to people already involved!

      I've never been to a James Ray event, but I have great respect for what he teaches, the message he brings, and the good that he does in helping people.

      James Ray has some very serious questions to answer over this tragedy, but witch-hunting him with gross exaggerations does not help anyone. It only detracts from your own credibility.
    by karen in baltimore · 11 months ago
      Thanks for this information. Having grown up in a cultish religious family, I have learned to be Independent and cautious of all emotionally charged persuasion. I have attended retreats and gatherings and have enjoyed learning, but when my gut says 'something is wrong with that person', I back away. At times, I am the only one doing so as others 'praise' this so called dynamic spiritual person. Cons are good actors. They can charm so well we don't even know it is happening. I watched a whole church follow someone who was evil and ended up in jail. But oh my could he move with "the Holy Spirit". The Truth will become known. I'm glad this is being investigated. It needs to be. Let's pray for the wounded and the families of the deceased. Let's pray for that land upon which this tragedy occurred. Let's pray for ourselves, that we each learn what we need to from this. Namaste.
    by Asandra Lamb · 11 months ago
      I am the National Spiritual Guidance Examiner,and have been following this story with great interest.

      Although I have my personal opinions about what transpired, I do think it is important for this incident to be thoroughly investigated by authorities in charge. If James Arthur Ray is negligent, the evidence will clearly determined that. Whatever price Mr. Ray will pay for this, emotionally, materially, and physically, is clearly part of his path.

      Everyone who participated will also have to reevaluate their approach to their path of spirituality. I believe this will have a profound impact on many in the metaphysical community. Perhaps that is the one silver lining, that those seeking spiritual awakening will find the most authentic means to do so.
    by Annie · 11 months ago
      Very interesting article. I am personally stunned at James Ray's behavior. Two people DIED and 1 is still in a coma while many others likely suffered permanent organ damage. In the wake of this, the person responsible (yes, responsible) leaves the state and continues his business as usual! He has the audacity to say he is being tested! HE is being tested? (1) This isn't about HIM and (2) do you imagine that perhaps this is more about the people who died and the unbelievable suffering their families are going thru than about a self-righteous, greedy snake oil salesman? When are people going to realize that everything we need is within ourselves and we do not need to be relinquishing our personal power to idiots like this.
    by anon · 11 months ago
      Kyle, it's my impression that people who truly "dedicate
    [their lives] to helping people" don't charge an arm and a leg for it. The people I know who dedicate their lives to others do so by giving of themselves, not taking from those who need help.[/list]
    by David · 11 months ago
      There are several things I find disturbing regarding this article. I'll limit it to a few. 1. Money has become such a hot topic due to the prices that are charged for an event such as this. I find it disturbing that we as a people feel it completely acceptable to pay a baseball player millions per year or football player the same and find that he is doing cock fighting or dog fighting or charged with assault or whatever. He finally gets out of jail or whatever the police charged him with and we can't wait so that he can get back out there and play again... Yet, when it comes to a person who has provided these OLD teachings in a new way so 21st century people can acclimate it we believe it is appalling that he actually have a nice lifestyle because of it. I personally don't enjoy being broke and find it difficult to listen to the teachings of someone who is. If you want to know how to make money don't ask a beggar. This world requires money. It's what we do with it that counts.
    by David · 11 months ago
      I have determined that my posts are not being submitted and therefore realize that if you contradict the article too much it doesn't get posted. We will see if this one gets posted. If so, I'll submit my post again.
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      I appreciate everything in your post, even though it may be brutal for followers of James Ray to swallow. I have been part of this movement and have attended Ray's events, as well as those of others. Unfortunately, it is painfully clear that the quiet, meditative time Ray has taken has been in part spent carefully crafting a legal defense. From what I have observed of him and attentively listened to him say, this is a man who leaves nothing to chance, but rather molds and shapes every iota of his life. He asks no questions for which he does not know the answer. Every phrase he utters, every word, is intended for a specific purpose. I know this is incredibly difficult for people who believe in James Ray to accept. The reason he left the scene and could not take the human and most natural step of being with those in his care who were in trouble was because he wanted to protect himself -- which he did brilliantly. This is unbelievably sad. But true.
    by SHFraud · 11 months ago
      This is truly sickening. The man has no shame and it's obvious from some of the responses here and the responses of followers that these people are very deeply sucked in and really need to wake up. And Oprah also needs to wake up, develop some critical thinking skills and be more careful of who she promotes. I really hope that he is tried, convicted, and locked up for good so he cannot hurt anyone else. That would be justice although for every James Ray that gets removed from society (if we're lucky), there are plenty of others ready and willing to take his face, along with plenty of people who never learned to think critically and are easy marks. How very sad.
    by Former Employee · 11 months ago
      As a former employee of James Ray, I can assure you that the man is a fraud. The "team" holds conference calls like these regularly to keep people who have attended events "plugged in". If he is the "teacher" that some think he is, why was he selling future events this week including next year's Spiritual Warrior event? The unmitigated arrogance is appalling and I think the man is guilty of criminal negligence.
    by David · 11 months ago
      Weird browser issue apparently as my post is back. My apologies. 2. I have been to several JR events and find his information invaluable. However, unlike a sheep I also listen to several other teachers including Dr. Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, Louise Hay, etc. They all have their own style of presenting what is pretty much the same material. Hearing it different ways allows a better integration but I would hardly call it brainwashing or mind control. The Sedona incident is truly a tragedy but we need to consider that accidents do happen. Kids have died on the football field due to heat exhaustion yet the coach didn't get charged with murder due to highly encouraging the child to stay on the field. I think to state that those at JR events are mind warped into doing things out of their control is ludicrous. I would say sitting in front of the TV drooling at an oreo then finding yourself eating one is far more mind-controlling and it happens daily.
    by David · 11 months ago
      1. Harmonic minded.. If I were to talk to you about how to fly an ILS Approach into a specific airport and discuss the procedures that you would need to consider in order to make a successful landing would you have any idea what I was talking about? Not unless you were a pilot. So why would I go to a counselor who will not understand anything about native traditions, spiritual prayer ceremonies, toxin cleansing, etc. True, it is not necessary to talk to someone within the JRI community but talking with someone who can at least talk the language I think would be necessary. I say all of this and do not intend to mean that there is not responsibility on the event holder for something that affected this many people. However, we do need to back up a little bit and realize that most of the people writing these articles have little understanding of the topics that were covered in that call. Yes, it sounds odd or strange but so does another language if you don't speak it.
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      As an addendum to my post of a few minutes ago, the reason Ray has not interrupted his schedule or ceased the crass haranguing at his events about signing up for future events in package multiples is because to do so a) would create a blip in the upward trajectory of his company (i.e. he in no way wants to be thrown off Inc. Magazine's 500 list of America's fastest-growing private companies that reported in 2009 that his company grew 547.4% in the previous three years); and b) would indicate that something "happened" or is "wrong" enough to warrant a modification of his schedule. One is a financial reason, the other legal.

      Once you get his logic, it's very simple. And it's all been well thought out. Expertly thought out. Ray leaves nothing to chance. Of that you can be sure.
    by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago
      There are a lot of good points going on in these comments, thanks everyone! I want to let you know, I don't like to moderate comments and generally won't do so unless its pointlessly rude. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I prefer to convince people with facts, evidence, and critical thinking rather than ommission.
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      I appreciate everything in your post, even though it may be brutal for followers of James Ray to swallow. I have been part of this movement and have attended Ray's events, as well as those of others. Unfortunately, it is painfully clear that the quiet, meditative time Ray has taken has been in part spent carefully crafting a legal defense. From what I have observed of him and attentively listened to him say, this is a man who leaves nothing to chance, but rather molds and shapes every iota of his life. He asks no questions for which he does not know the answer. Every phrase he utters, every word, is intended for a specific purpose. I know this is incredibly difficult for people who believe in James Ray to accept. The reason he left the scene and could not take the human and most natural step of being with those in his care who were in trouble was because he wanted to protect himself -- which he did brilliantly. This is unbelievably sad. But true.


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 26-50
    « Reply #233 on: September 11, 2010, 06:50:52 PM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 26-50:


    by JamesPossible · 11 months ago
      Beyond the tragedy, while such events will bring out the greatest doubts and fears of many it is especially appreciated to hear Cassandra share thoughts regarding "turning inward".

      My biggest question...what are the facts?

      Was the sweat being setup in a way that the participants would be well supported by the structure, procedures and safe guards (if any). Many native Indian commenters (i.e., from other posts) have spoken of established protocols and using only natural fibers, sounds reasonable.

      The idea of squeezing some 55 to 65 people into a 415 square foot (i.e., approximately 20 feet by 20 feet) space and covering them with plastic for two-hours seems quite extreme, even more so after completing a 36 hour fast. The lodge design seems to add additional stress with an approximate center height of 53 inches and sides dropping close to 30 inches.

      No doubt the sweats will continue, so what needs to change?

      Finally, Cassandra's point "turning inward" is something to kee
    by JamesPossible · 11 months ago
      Oops, the last few words were cutoff...

      Finally, Cassandra's point "turning inward" is something for all of us to keep in mind. Indeed, it is a warning sign.

      There is no one person who has all the answers.

      When you allow someone else to think for you there no longer exists your sense reality or well being. Your life is precious, learn from others, be curious and when it doesn't serve you, pay attention, be willing to discard it like a yesterday's newspaper.

      Thank you Cassandra for bringing up such an important point.
    by Let's Be Honest Here · 11 months ago
      Cassandra used the word "inward" to describe the technique of mind control to influence followers to cut off suggestions from outside "the circle" which could cause them to doubt the one they're following.

      You can't have it both ways -- believing implicitly that the one you're following is the only one to lead you on the path to your redemption/goals/dreams AND have sufficient independent critical judgment to cause you to doubt what your leader is prescribing, go against him and disappoint him.
    by anon · 11 months ago
      I've gone to JRI seminars and have gotten a lot from them, but I have my doubts about veracity, integrity, and sincerity. Examples:
      - James claims to have been initiated into 3 "mystery schools" - unverifiable, yet nobody seems to question that. When? It doesn't add up.
      - Many of his teachings/seminar activities are lifted DIRECTLY from others. Examples: authors Maxwell Maltz and Joseph Murphy; T Harv Eker seminars.
      -James is a salesman and performer. If you've gone to the Harmonic Wealth Weekend, it's an exact replica HWW performance. Watch the HWW Home Study Course to compare ? even the crying at the end is part of the act. It?s very powerful and effective, but it?s an act.
      - James has studied sales psychology and persuasion/influence extensively (subliminal and otherwise). He uses it in everything he does, and each move is deliberate. It is incredibly powerful. How else would he get people to pay $35k/yr to join his ?inner circle,? the World Wealth Society?
    by Holly · 11 months ago
      For those hounding JR for going forward with his commitment to hold the events you'd probably be the same people calling him a coward if he canceled them. Many of you think he was a coward and "left the scene." Consider that it was a police investigation at that time and he was most likely asked to leave so the participants could be interviewed outside of his presence. But, it's a much better story to speculate that he was trying to run and hide. Had he stayed you would be saying he was there to use his ?mind control? over the witnesses. You put a spin on the limited facts to make it read the way you want to read it. There is no denying that what happened is a tragedy, but all the added opinion, speculation & reports taken out of context only creates the rumors that take on a life of their own and serve no purpose but to ?brainwash? in another form. People love a good witch hunt. Any words added as speculation, opinion or hearsay are not facts and only enflame an a tragic situation
    by Just a thought · 11 months ago
      What is fascinating to me is the response he is having to this. I can't speak for the feelings that flow through him or the connections he may or may not have to his fellow man. My mind just can't wrap around the fact that he hasn't visited the victims or the victims family. It's like he doesn't want to be associated in a direct way to what happened. I mean these people trusted him and it was a horrible accident but at least do the right thing and allow the family to see that you really cared for their deceased loved ones. I mean hiring his own investigators? Wow, who would think like that unless they were trying to distance themselves emotionally from what happened. I would have way more respect and I think many others would if he would just step off his pedestal and act as a human being and visit the families of the victims or talk to them directly.

      They lost their lives trusting you, they weren't "happy to leave their body," they had no choice. Don't pray, act with courage!
    by just a thought · 11 months ago
      This reminds me of that saying, "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it!"

      The rough road to take is the humble one. Suck it up and visit the victims family directly. They may hate you, curse at you, show intense anger like only a victims family can, but they will respect your courage and take away from that a healing that you cannot imagine.

      Who cares about those others that had already committed to seminars this week. They are still alive, if they can afford to fly in and take your seminar they can afford to fly back a day or two early and they would understand the reason for it. Their healing is not that urgent that they cannot wait another month or two til they hear you speak. Your character is being revealed Mr. Ray and that is why people sense at an intuitive level something isn't right. God, the universe, the quantum field, etc. doesn't like ugly, and you are being exposed at whatever level for a deep reason.
    by Not Surprised · 11 months ago
      I do not believe that James Ray set out to intentionally hurt anyone. However I am appalled at the greed that was exhibited in this matter. If he charged over 60 people 9,600.00 each he very easily could have hired professional Native Americans to not only build a quality lodge but also to oversee and/ or conduct the activities. He could have had oxygen, difibrilators and medical staff on hand in case of emergencies.He clearly did not want to spend any extra money on things he did not deem necessary. Its all so very sad, but it seems in this case the almighty dollar is what the focus was.
    by StpMmJY · 11 months ago
      Call JY ASAP - a major news agency needs to talk with you, Cassandra. . .
    by cory many fingers · 11 months ago
      Hi: I'm Blackfoot "native american" from South
      Western, Alberta.

      We have Sweat Lodges "many" every weekend, and nobody
      have ever died. Why? It's simple; the leader of the lodge
      takes into account for every individual "their purpose and physical aspects" while attending.

      With the number of people "approxamatley 60", it is difficult to maintain awareness of those who attend.

      Logistically, it's impossible to maintain awareness of that many people during a Sweat. Therefore, it saddens me James did not use intelligence "knowledge" nor care of each individual during the ceremony.
    by Saturn · 11 months ago
      Holly, I find it extremely hypocritical that you heavily criticize James Ray's critics as being speculative.... Yet you yourself considerably speculates about what those critics would say if he had been different.

      It seems to me that most critics of James Ray (Including myself) criticize what he did, because they don't want people to get hurt in the future. We can help others educate themselves before they fall for a false prophet slinging false qualifications, especially when it comes to being involved in a properly run sweat lodge.

      Fact is, people have had problems at James Ray's rotisserie shacks before. What did James Ray do to prevent it from happening after these previous problems? Obviously not much! Because he kept doing these lodges and it only got worse... As evidenced by this latest tragedy.
    by Not Surprised · 11 months ago
      I do not believe that James Ray set out to intentionally hurt anyone. However I am appalled at the greed that was exhibited in this matter. If he charged over 60 people 9,600.00 each he very easily could have hired professional Native Americans to not only build a quality lodge but also to oversee and/ or conduct the activities. He could have had oxygen, difibrilators and medical staff on hand in case of emergencies.He clearly did not want to spend any extra money on things he did not deem necessary. Its all so very sad, but it seems in this case the almighty dollar is what the focus was.
    by S.T. · 11 months ago
      You and James are cut from the same cloth. Both of you impose your interpretations of reality and offer them as the Gospel truth. Please knock it off.
    by Mind Games · 11 months ago
      James claims to have studied in three mystery schools. If that's the case, then he probably understands that by leading these victims in such a long, love+light meditation the other day, he was actually leading them through a kind of hypnosis. Being hypnotized by him, those people are much more likely to follow his orders and not question him. It is TOTALLY inappropriate for a criminal to be hypnotizing his victims like this. He's trying to influence them at a time when they need to be clear and objective about his criminal negligence. He gets worse and worse and worse every day this goes on. He's an absolute charlatan and scam artist. Keep this story alive until he's sitting in a jail cell for a long, long time.
    by Holly · 11 months ago
      Saturn, you picked up on my point exactly - thank you. Speculation inflames a situation. There are at least two sides to everything and usually as many sides as there are people involved because everyone sees things differently to some degree. I have no problem with education, but stick to the facts without adding opinions and speculation. I've been to many JRI events. At the events you are highly encouraged to participate, but never forced to do anything beyond what you choose to do. I was never "starved" except at my own choosing for the experience. I've opted out of experiences that I personally wasn't ready to participate in and had no pressure from anyone to go against my gut decision. There is nothing wrong with exposing a situation as potentially dangerous to educate others, but when a person starts inserting their own opinions into the facts that goes beyond education and becomes persuasion.
    by judith · 11 months ago
      The insensitivity of James Ray and his staff in the aftermath of two deaths and numerous injuries from the sweat lodge disaster is almost beyond words! These people have been traumitized and may have lasting physical and emotional problems from this "event". To have a generic conference call, throw in catch phrases like "stay plugged in" and lean on "harmonicly minded people", not to mention continuing to promote his events and facilitate them is unbelievable. Why couldn't he stay at Angel Valley and comfort both the injured and uninjured individuals who attended the ill-fated sweat lodge? Why didn't he talk to the police at the scene? Why hasn't he been to the hospital to visit those still there and spoken to the families? Where is his compassion? Is money, power, and his foundation more important than the people who trusted him? I feel for those affected by this retreat and hope they find closure and healing. His self-serving nature is very apparent.
    by Branden a Common Man · 11 months ago
      I wanted to offer comment based upon 20 years of doing sweat lodges, vision quests and sun dances in the Lakota tradition. We do yearly vision quests where people go without food or water for three days and do sweats before and after the ceremony. These ceremonies require much preparation. It's not so much about the heat itself, although I was not there and it could have been too hot for too long. The two problems I see are the use of plastic tarps which do not breathe and a group size that is potentially unmanageable. As some have commented, how can a sweat leader tend to all those in a dark place such as a sweat lodge? While people can sometimes become weak on a vision quest or in a sweat lodge, we always check to see how all are doing and if anyone wants to leave, they can. Also, in the tradition of the red road we never charge a set fee. We suggest people offer a nominal donation from the heart, so we can cover our expenses. Some are able to give, others are not, all are welcome.
    by sis · 11 months ago
      there is no question that very sophisticated persuasion is being used.
      directed to a group insider for guidance?
      is that to turn the members of the group within the group, and make sure their memories of what happened at the sweatlodge match? sounds like an attempt to solidfy groupthink and taint memories.
      but witnesses at any crime or death scene are always told to not contaminate eachothers memories.

      most important, carefully look at the precise words being spoken when they are told to do deep breathing. that is a type of light hypnosis to give suggestions. when they are told to envision all of them as a family in a circle, that is to create a deep emotional group bonding.

      they are then persuaded to fly into San Diego for another seminar, and that is going to be all about trying to create even deeper emotional bonds, and to try to stop people from even thinking about seeking civil justice.
      are they going to be persuaded to sign any papers about the sweatlodge events?
    by Cheryl · 11 months ago
      What a ridiculous article. James Arthur Ray did not intend for any harm towards the people attending his retreat. I think it is horrible that you are using this tragedy to produce ratings and numbers. Absolutely disgusting. James Arthur Ray is an incredible teacher, speaker, and author. This was just a horrible accident and nothing else.
    by Kurt · 11 months ago
      James Ray has always claimed that the
      ideas behind what he teaches are not his
      own! People do not follow him.. They follow
      a path of their own ! The brainwashing word
      you use is one of ignorance and extremely
      insulting to the people who suffer from this!
      1000's of others teach the same principals
      all over the world and have changed lives
      for the better because of it.
      You do not yet understand his motives for you
      have yet to understand the concepts behind
      all this. He is a follower to these ideas just like
      the rest..... not the creator!
      Referring to him as a cult leader is a severe
      smack in the face to the people who died
      and were injured by this accident.... Not to
      mention the humilliation you could create
      for the families of the tragedy.
      Think and have the proper knowlege
      before you try to take things out of context-so to
      create turmoil for people .. Wait .. Sorry
      that wouldn't be a good story if people had
      all the facts..... right?
    by concerned · 11 months ago
      Thanks for the article. Seems obvious that the "sweat lodge ceremony" was conducted in a way radically different from how they're conducted in authentic Native American contexts -- in terms of its construction, the length of the ceremony, the number of people in the lodge, etc. Also obvious that Mr. Ray is primarily interested, at this point, in covering his own a** !

      Also raises all kinds of questions about our habitual tendency to give our power away, project authority outward -- instead of staying connected to our own intuition, and finding Divinity in the only place it ultimately can be found: within ourselves!

      Which isn't to say that AUTHENTIC spiritual guides aren't, at least potentially, an important part of the picture. An authentic Teacher, however, will be consciously tuned into the dynamics of projection going on, and committed, first and foremost, to "returning" to the student the authority & power that they initially could only "see" in the guru.
    by Saturn · 11 months ago
      But Holly, I'm curious as to what parts of this artcle you deem as being speculative?

      To me, most if this article appears to be factual documentation of James Ray and his staffs' own words during this call. Followed up by the authors personal opinion and some legitimate questions presented by the author of this article. AP has even picked up on it, so I'm sure they did some checks and balances. James Ray's PR guy admitted the call took place. And one of the victim's cousin's provided the transcript.

      I'd provide a direct link to the AP article, but it's not allowed
      here... Found via Google (Your friend!), Title and reporter are "Self-help guru calls sweat lodge participants By FELICIA FONSECA (AP)"
    by Friend · 11 months ago
      I have a friend that was burnt fairly badly in this incident. He has spend 10's of thousands of dollars and it takes a event like this for him to see what James really is. A confidence man. Let this be a lesson to all, if it seem too good (and too expensive) to be true, it is!!
    by Ruth · 11 months ago
      people, this was not an accident!!!!
      seems like some followers of James Ray are posting.

      For sure this is a type of brainwashing or mind-control being done on people, the type of seminar is called a
      Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT),
      search Google and read-up and wake-up!

      and there were other incidents of people getting hurt.
      as a matter of fact, James Ray has this gigantic document that everyone has to sign, that actually says people could get seriously injured and die at the events and seminars.
      read that gigantic document, and it says people have been hurt in many different ways, and could die at the seminar.
      anyone can read it online. just Google the words;

      James Ray Waiver of Liability
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      I appreciate everything in your post, even though it may be brutal for followers of James Ray to swallow. I have been part of this movement and have attended Ray's events, as well as those of others. Unfortunately, it is painfully clear that the quiet, meditative time Ray has taken has been in part spent carefully crafting a legal defense. From what I have observed of him and attentively listened to him say, this is a man who leaves nothing to chance, but rather molds and shapes every iota of his life. He asks no questions for which he does not know the answer. Every phrase he utters, every word, is intended for a specific purpose. I know this is incredibly difficult for people who believe in James Ray to accept. The reason he left the scene and could not take the human and most natural step of being with those in his care who were in trouble was because he wanted to protect himself -- which he did brilliantly. This is unbelievably sad. But true.


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 51-75
    « Reply #234 on: September 12, 2010, 01:22:39 AM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 51-75:


    by Paul · 11 months ago
      I've been to 3 James Ray events and spent over $10.000.00 that I really couldn't afford. Why?

      I wanted to remove the blocks from my subconsious mind that prevent me from success. It had nothing to do with joining any kind of cult. I was just looking for information about me. That's it.

      At first, I got excellent information and tools to work with but after the last event I went to, I got a funny feeling about what was really going on. I felt that James wanted me to join in his vision and not my own. I thought " you know, he really doesn't care about me and helping me to succeed." That was really a bummer because I really thought this guy was cool as hell.

      When you think you are going to get what you need at an event, he tells you about the next one where you will learn some key stuff. That's how you get sucked in.

      Here I am about 3 years after I started attending his events and I am back to where I started except before I was debt free. Now I am over $10.000.00 in debt.
    by rep · 11 months ago
      someone should go to the seminar in San Diego and record everything that is said on a digital recorder.
      That way any influence and witness coaching will be known.
      For anyone attending these seminars, get some proper advice and do not sign any of these papers they will try to make you sign!
      Don't sign anything.
      Hopefully there will be some undercover reporters in the room to see what is going on.
    by Bob · 11 months ago
      It seems it's now being investigated as a Homicide and James is the #1 person of interest.

      Let's face the facts. If they can go after Michael's Doctor for prescribing the drugs Michael wanted, they will go after this guy and nail him up high for everyone to see.
    by Lion Kimbro · 11 months ago
      Hmm; Everything seems fair to me. I don't see any "hypnotizing" or anything like that -- Just people gathering together after an unfortunate and traumatic accident.

      The idea that "certified" psychologists are who everyone should be referred to is crazy to me; Psychology is like a cross between secular religion, philosophy, main stream thinking, and state -- and any group that decides to be different than the main stream in some way is fully in its right to have its own ideas about life and counseling; Each culture is entitled to its own ways of thinking, and the freedom to create new ways of thinking.
    by The Explorer · 11 months ago
      An aspect I don't believe anyone has commented on is to the extent the American culture is committed to the "warrior's way". I've seen several references to these people as "spiritual warriors" Why are our people so conditioned to the warrior's way" that we even use that way in our spiritual quests? Why do people feel they have to starve and torture themselves? Is it a type of penance for sins, or were they just like the leader Ray just there to figure out how to get more money. Until we turn from this greedy way of thinking, these types of things will continue to happen.
    by Dreamtimer · 11 months ago
      I agree with the Explorer. The "warrior's way" is the problem. Our culture from movies and video games to how we treat other countries is colored by our assumption that the only way to deal with things or get what we want is the Warrior's Way. What happened to the people from the 60s? What happened to peace, love and flowers? not starving, sweating, and dying.
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      I appreciate everything in your post, even though it may be brutal for followers of James Ray to swallow. I have been part of this movement and have attended Ray's events, as well as those of others. Unfortunately, it is painfully clear that the quiet, meditative time Ray has taken has been in part spent carefully crafting a legal defense. From what I have observed of him and attentively listened to him say, this is a man who leaves nothing to chance, but rather molds and shapes every iota of his life. He asks no questions for which he does not know the answer. Every phrase he utters, every word, is intended for a specific purpose. I know this is incredibly difficult for people who believe in James Ray to accept. The reason he left the scene and could not take the human and most natural step of being with those in his care who were in trouble was because he wanted to protect himself -- which he did brilliantly. This is unbelievably sad. But true.
    by Bob · 11 months ago
      It seems it's now being investigated as a Homicide and James is the #1 person of interest.

      Let's face the facts. If they can go after Michael's Doctor for prescribing the drugs Michael wanted, they will go after this guy and nail him up high for everyone to see.
    by Saturn · 11 months ago
      Google is your friend! Keywords: How Brainwashing works HowStuff Works

      James Ray and potential James Ray followers should find the sections of the article involving "brainwashing techniques" and the "possibility of salvation" to be rather familiar... The origin for these methods came from the Korean War!

      Hmmmmm... Not such a new idea after all!
    by BREAKING NEWS · 11 months ago
      BREAKING NEWS: Sweat lodge deaths now a homicide case
      By Lisa Irish, The Daily Courier

      "Because of information that we have obtained from interviews from participants in this most recent "Spiritual Warrior" seminar and from other past participants in them, we have elevated the investigation from an accidental death investigation to a homicide investigation," Waugh said.
      Sheriff's detectives executed search warrants earlier this week at James Ray International's offices in Carlsbad, Calif.

      Additionally, documentation on whether participants were advised of the risks before or during the Spiritual Warrior program," Waugh said.

      Waugh said his office would like all participants who have knowledge of the Spiritual Warrior seminar at Angel Valley Retreat, or who have experienced something similar, to contact the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office by e-mail at
    http://www.ycsoaz.gov or Yavapai Silent Witness 1-800-939-3232.[/list]
    by Freddy · 11 months ago
      I purchased JR's "Harmonic Wealth" book, having seen him on Oprah and thus extending the her "envelope of trustworthiness" to him, at least in my imagination.

      I could only get through a few pages of the book - I didn't really find it relevant to my life (and I read a lot of this kind of stuff).

      I've also watched so many of his videos, and listened to a couple of "teleseminars" (translation: sales pitch sessions for some product, partner or affiliate, usually).

      I just noticed that there is always this aggravating, pushy tone about the guy. He would often talk over the top of his guests, and seemed pretty self-centered in his dialogue. In fact, if you google "James Ray interviews Moby", you'll hear a clearly annoyed Moby (after a 1 hour conversation) have to put his foot down with James because he would not let him end the interview. Moby got to the point of saying to him "no, really, I really do have to get the door now". Just listen to it - it's a glimpse into JR's character.
    by What? · 11 months ago
      Large Group Awareness training? Cults? Interesting, that sounds exactly like every organized religion that is in existence. I am not a follower of James Arther Ray, but it is funny to me that people are so judgmental before they even know what happened. I understand though, you are being taught hate, fear, and judgment by your church's. If it is different from what you are told to believe by all means vilify it.
    by Realist · 11 months ago
      I appreciate everything in your post, even though it may be brutal for followers of James Ray to swallow. I have been part of this movement and have attended Ray's events, as well as those of others. Unfortunately, it is painfully clear that the quiet, meditative time Ray has taken has been in part spent carefully crafting a legal defense. From what I have observed of him and attentively listened to him say, this is a man who leaves nothing to chance, but rather molds and shapes every iota of his life. He asks no questions for which he does not know the answer. Every phrase he utters, every word, is intended for a specific purpose. I know this is incredibly difficult for people who believe in James Ray to accept. The reason he left the scene and could not take the human and most natural step of being with those in his care who were in trouble was because he wanted to protect himself -- which he did brilliantly. This is unbelievably sad. But true.
    by rezgirl2002 · 11 months ago
      Its a tragic loss when a human being is taken, but what ails me more is that non indians think that they can take our cermonies and proclaim that they can show you the way, Little do they know that this is a way of life for me and my people, its not ritual, its not to make money. It hurts me that lives were taken in the inipi because this ceremony is one of seven cermonies given to us to LIVE on this earth. Yet, these kind of incidents occur why? Materialistc? Gluttony? Greed? EGO? Its all a part of letting go and apparently James Arthur Ray has yet to believe in his own teachings. To the followers or supporters of this man, do not put man on a pedstal, always know that Creator is there cause man will always let you down, that advice was free and from the heart and passed on to me from my grandma and mom. My heart goes out to the family and friends and my family and I will pray hard for your healing....Jannella
    by Paul · 11 months ago
      I made a comment below but ran out of room to say this:

      If James is truly who he says he is then he would NOT have left those people when they needed him the most. He bailed. I can't believe he actually bailed. James, did you leave your balls in the last sweat lodge you were in? I have now lost any respect I had left for you.

      He said it was not his wish to leave. If it were me it wouldn't have mattered and I would have put myself aside. What is more precious than life? On top of that, he continued with business as usual doing another event most likely so he wouldn't lose money.

      James, if you were ever at one point in your life truly genuine, what happened to you?
    by new age madness · 11 months ago
      of the two that had passed and they left their bodies during the ceremony and had so much fun they chose not to come back and that was their choice that they made.?

      uh, dudes, this is freakin crazy. A senior staff member of James Ray is telling people that those who died, were in an out-of-body experience and stayed on their astral travelling for fun?
      The James Ray followers are saying they are not a new age culty group.
      sorry to break the bad news, but when your members die at a group event, and your leaders tell you they did not die, but just went astral travelling, that is a destructive new age cult!!
      Way more than 2 could have died, some are still very sick.
      They are using very advanced persuasion methods on these people, as others have said, do the research.
      But you know you are in a dangerous new age cult, when your friends die, and your leader tells you they chose to suffocate to death. madness
      How many others have died at these seminars in years past?
    by Paul · 11 months ago
      Hey new age madness,

      I am not defending them but you really have nothing to back up your statement. I've been to 3 events and trust me it's no Amway. Some people, and there are always some no matter where you are or what you are doing that takes things a bit too far. That person who works for James could very well be one of them.

      For everyone out there reading this that hasn't been to a James Ray event, it is not a cult. Believe me, I've been to an Amway meeting and that was just plain stranger than this.
    by NoMaya · 11 months ago
      People love to see people tar and feathered. It's amazing that the media is creating expert analysis with all the questions still unanswered. I miss hard cord reporting, where fact were checked and editors cared about getting it right.

      I love the internet for all it does, yet anyone with a keyboard can be an "journalist". Blessing to all that were hurt, families of the dead and James Ray, who I know did not mean for this to happen, and cares about his students.
    by NoMaya · 11 months ago
      Brainwashing
      n.

      1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
      2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

      Yup, Obama, The Pope, The Dali Lama, Psychologists, therapists, the media, Basic Training, Your parents, your boss, ...Brainwashing is not so uncommon. It's used everyday, and not by "villains". Sometimes the crap in our heads needs to be cleaned up, people going to James Rays events do it knowingly, because they want new results.
    by Concerned · 11 months ago
      Wow, interesting that James Ray says that these people chose to die, yet excercises a monsterous double standard and implies he wishes more than anything he could have stayed to be with them and help them through this experience but implies that it was not his choice.

      Anyone else blown away by this?

      No true spiritual leader, no warrior will ever leave their tribe.

      Ever.
    by scary stuff · 11 months ago
      The James Ray supporters posting here are posting some very disturbing stuff, considering what happened.
      To imply that hyperbole is being used, when the media is reporting its now a homicide investigation.

      That staff person said the people chose to die, and James Ray was on the phone call, and supported that statement. That is scary stuff, imagine what they tell people in private.

      As far as what goes on in these seminars, as others have said, its called a Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT), and there are tons of websites that describe how they work, how they use hypnosis and everything else. Some of the manipulation is pretty subtle, some is more blatant. Its white collar seminar brainwashing. People are getting their minds jacked around and turned inside out, and that's how they make the big dollars.
    by Saturn · 11 months ago
      NoMaya, so what your saying is that just because other people engage in brainwashing techniques? It's okay for James Ray and others to do it?

      And NoMaya.... What facts were not checked in this article? Please enlighten us!

      I think some have drank a bit too much of the Kool Aid! ;)
    by Kurt · 11 months ago
      Is James driven by greed?
      Is he driven by power?
      It is alot of money to attend!
      Or does he view money as a carpenter
      views a box of nails?
      Wasn't he in the same tent with the rest?
      Only time will tell of his true intentions...
      Instead of the traditonal attack and point finger
      idealism- lay quiet and watch .
      It's not about him. It's about your voice/opinion.
      Is it possible that his intentions are for the
      greater good? In order to answer that
      you will have to look deeply into the facts.
      Look at what he has studied. It's all there
      on his site.. If not ... Look for the sceintific
      explanation.. Of what is really going on.
      Watch a movie called " What the bleep do we know"
      Then choose to dismiss it or not.
      The main point is... wasn't he in their with them?
    by Rachel · 11 months ago
      Yep, Ray 'cared about his students' alright. Cared enough to charge them thousands of dollars to be crammed into a death house. And now this jerk claims they willingly chose to 'leave their bodies'? Do you think death is the 'new result' those killed were aiming for?
      Good luck convincing the HOMICIDE investigators of that Mr. Ray. These cult leaders do nothing other than exploit the gullible for millions. The transcript of Ray's calls are beyond sickening. I hope Ray and anyone else responsible for these senseless deaths rot in jail.
    by Ex JRI Warrior · 11 months ago
      i used to be one of James Ray's followers.....and I think it is very cult-like...i used to laugh about it when i was attending the events. but looking back on it, i am pretty shocked and a little scared about how I got sucked in and almost hypnotized by James and his teachings. For some reason I caught on to his hypocritical ways and decided to cut my losses...I even forfeited $4000 for one of his events that i signed up for and never attended. I guess that was my $4000 lesson....and thankfully so, otherwise I could have easily been one of the sweat lodge victims. I just hope that those that are currently under "the James Ray spell" can see the light and break free. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and the families...especially to my old friend Liz who is still in the hospital and was in a coma last time I checked.


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 76-100
    « Reply #235 on: September 12, 2010, 01:39:43 AM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 76-100:


    by The Stooge · 11 months ago
      *SATIRICAL COMPOSITION BASED ON ACTUAL WITNESS ACCOUNTS OF BEING PUSHED TO HAVE THEIR HEADS SHAVED AT JAMES RAY SEMINARS*

      James Ray: Shave your head for me!

      Moonie 1: Otay!

      Moonie 2: Sure! I'd love to!

      Critical Thinker: I'll bic it clean immediately after you do it first, James!

      James Ray: You are not thinking positively and you're not going FULL ON!

      Critical Thinker: So you're not going before me?

      James Ray: Fine, don't shave it! I recommend that you by my book "Harmonic Hypocrisy" in order for you to gain knowledge of why you need to experience positive change in all 5 areas of your life NOW!

      Critical Thinker: So it's your turn now, James.

      James Ray: What have I taught you my family?

      Moonie: This is so negative and not like minded! I'm detaching!
      Meka leka high make a hiney hoooooo!

      Moonie 2: Curly was the yin to Moe's yang! Every yang therefore must have a yin! To live full on, one must shed the yang first in order to experience yin! La! La! La!
    by robert · 11 months ago
      I think the best gift people like James Ray and Tony Robbins can give to the world is their own public implosion - they are poster children for the excesses, greed and inauthenticity of our times.

      Get some popcorn, it's going to be a great education for us all...we take the easy side of easy in our own evolution and accept the empty words of mediocre beings who have nothing in mind but their own self-interests...this mindset is why the world is in the shape it is in - killing others in our own mindless pursuit of our wantings...
    by strange · 11 months ago
      The James Ray warriors sure put out some strange illogic.
      Does it make any difference that he may have been in the death tent with his followers? no it doesn't.
      no one knows if James Ray was also fasting for 3 days before, or not.
      and the release of liability that everyone signed says that people could get hurt or die.
      so he knew the risk.

      but it makes no difference if he were in the death tent.
      Jim Jones also was in Jonestown, and he never left Jonestown either. Everyone thought Jim Jones was wonderful, until it was too late.

      what if more people had died in Sedona that day. What if the leader and 20 people all perished together? that is better?
      no, people had been hurt before in previous sweat tents they conducted, so the people running it knew how dangerous it was.

      listen to the former JamesRay warriors who saw what was going on, and got out.
    by The Truth · 11 months ago
      Kurt, why pay for some fictional LGAT viral movie like WTB, when you can get a FREE opinion and education on the matter of James Ray's smoke lodge from the very people James Ray and others bastardized the idea from... THE NATIVE AMERICANS!
    by PrivateCall · 11 months ago
      This was a PRIVATE CALL for the ones that were there - The ones that experienced this - Not the public - It is a sad thing this person did, A very Sad Thing ...selling out to the media for a buck.... you should be ashamed of yourself -- people have lost their lives and some are STILL in the hospital fighting to stay alive and you print this..............OMG
    by Cassandra Yorgey · 11 months ago
      Wow, what amazing discussions! A few quick responses, in no particular order:
      - Many of you have scolded me, pointing out that I owe an apology and clarification on some things. You've spoken, I have heard, and it will be forthcoming in the next article. Thank you.
      - One reason it is SO, SO important to see a qualified professional for counseling/therapy is because of the Hippocratic Oath, taken by doctors that assures they will ethically practice medicine. James Ray and the woman he referred people to have not sworn to do any such thing.
      - Some people seem unclear as to what my status is in the media. I am a professional freelancer hired by Examiner.com and am subject to fact checking.
      - To those who think I should keep my opinion to myself... No. I have welcomed you all to speak openly and discuss thoughts and opinions from every side. It is ludicrous to suggest that I remove myself from such a great group discussion. Also, you have just suggested I stop doing my job.
    by NoMaya · 11 months ago
      Brainwashing
      n.

      1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
      2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

      Yup, Obama, The Pope, The Dali Lama, Psychologists, therapists, the media, Basic Training, Your parents, your boss, ...Brainwashing is not so uncommon. It's used everyday, and not by "villains". Sometimes the crap in our heads needs to be cleaned up, people going to James Rays events do it knowingly, because they want new results.
    by NoMaya · 11 months ago
      Cassandra- Forgive me if me if didn't feel your writing was not an article. The Examiner is, in my experience, a hyped up blog. And that is perfect, it's fine. People offering opinions and insight. Your article is laced with personal opinion. Its editorial. It's a comment on current affairs. There is a story here, it's just the side comment and your personal distaste for self help is clear. Once again, that's cool. However, there has been many taking these types of "news stories" on this event as the bottom line truth. The internet breeds fast news now.

      Did you know that in the state of California, there is no counselor licensing? If you think the ethics of an oath make a person a good therapist, I would say that is very limited thinking. Again, my experience has shown me different.

      Do you think all additive persons should seek ONLY licensed help? A.A. and 12 step programs are just hype? Tell that to the millions of sober people. It's one of a dozen examples I could offer.
    by NoMaya · 11 months ago
      Cassandra- Forgive me if me if didn't feel your writing was not an article. The Examiner is, in my experience, a hyped up blog. And that is perfect, it's fine. People offering opinions and insight. Your article is laced with personal opinion. Its editorial. It's a comment on current affairs. There is a story here, it's just the side comment and your personal distaste for self help is clear. Once again, that's cool. However, there has been many taking these types of "news stories" on this event as the bottom line truth. The internet breeds fast news now.

      Did you know that in the state of California, there is no counselor licensing? If you think the ethics of an oath make a person a good therapist, I would say that is very limited thinking. Again, my experience has shown me different.

      Do you think all additive persons should seek ONLY licensed help? A.A. and 12 step programs are just hype? Tell that to the millions of sober people. It's one of a dozen examples I could offer.
    by doh · 11 months ago
      Cassandra,

      great job getting this article out so quickly. it was very important for the public and others, to see with their own eyes what was going on.
      cleary there was an attempt to influence and manipulate the only witnesses to what happened inside that sweatdome which turned deadly. will that be seen as tampering with the witnesses?

      also these types of groups get their members to try and attack those who speak out, it happens all the time. their supporters try to do some spin-control on blogs, and their main method is to go after anyone who speaks up.
      and to be honest, some of the posts here supporting Mr. Ray do smell like they are coming from the pen of the expensive, professional pubic relations firm hired by Mr Ray.
      Mr Ray could not find time to talk to the police, but has plenty of time to do more for-profit seminars though.
    by ceremonialist · 11 months ago
      Sweat lodge is an amazing and beautiful ceremony given to the people for purification and connection to the great spirit. Ray was using it as propaganda to make money. My Native American grandfather always shakes his head at those who would charge money for these ceremonies or to capitalize on ceremony. It is disgusting that Ray would cram so many people into a "sacred space" to attempt to bend their will so to speak. Sad for the participants who paid $10,000 for an experience that should have been beautiful and free. Sadder still is that he had people going into the sweat lodge to pray for their improved financial well-being. That is not the point or purpose of this beautiful ceremony and I'm sad that people were so misguided by some cult leader that they looked up to. I hope this doesn't give sweat lodge ceremony a bad name.
    by Brian · 11 months ago
      Congratulations to the article, it brings lots of great information to the public, hope the police is also reading it while they investigate. So James Ray has the audacity to say he was thinking he needs to take care of his people?! How sick is to learn this when I know that while the participants was pulling out those not capable of transporting themselves, performing CPR and fighting to survive, Mr Ray was looking at the scene like nothing was happening and drinking his energy stuff (taking care of HIMSELF). Where was the warrior in him at that moment? running to his room and hiding like a coward. For some one to think that because he was in it gives him any kind of excuse for abusing all the participants by going way out of control amazes me. He was in it because it was his show and his body was well care and prepared to be in it. If he really wants to take care of his people he could start now by answering the calls... to be continue
    by Brian · 11 months ago
      one of the victims are still in critical condition in the hospital and where is Mr Ray? Is Mr Ray taking care of his responsibility and at least paying for the victims hospital bills? NO! his office does not even answer the calls. If he really mean what he says there are plenty of opportunities for him to practice responsibility and care. Maybe we need to help him to remember that his show end up with a widow and three children without a father. I bet all the victims and families are paying for all the expenses his action cased, he for sure is keeping each of their $9,000. I also bet that any one that offers any criticism to this article and to the person that gave Cassandra the transcript of the private call is part of his 'family'. While he gets rich and famous you 'followers' are getting powerless every minute. Can't you see it? its not that hard! He does not think of you for a second, all he thinks is himself. He putted your life in danger, run, hided, left you with all the damage
    by Brian · 11 months ago
      and bills and you are still defending him? Please! Ending the call with "love you lots" is beyond manipulation. Walk your talk Mr Ray and show love, not by fake tears and empty words but actions of responsibility.
    by Ria · 11 months ago
      I don't know James Ray and would never go to his seminars mostly because of the price. To me it's an outrageous amount of money. But, your article is simply you venting and dangerous in a world full of people spouting their opinions as if they had researched the issue enough to offer an opinion. You weren't there and I wasn't there and we don't know what happened, why it happened, how it happened, etc. In reading your article it also tells me that you are unfamiliar with the human growth movement. So you speak and write as an outsider, which is really easy to do. Not accurate and in my opinion dangerous. It's like commenting on a football game when you don't understand the game, think it's barbarous and it's something you've never spent anytime watching. If there is judgment to be made I believe it should be done by his peers, not someone who knows nothing about him or what he does. It's easy to pass judgment. It's wiser to shut up and listen and then decide.
    by hurt by James Ray · 10 months ago
      First of all my heart breaks for the families who have lost a loved one or were hurt in this awful event.

      FT in response to your questions: Did Colleen Marian Conaway die while attending a James Arthur Ray, Creating Absolute Wealth Seminar in San Diego CA Jul 24-26 2009?
      Did she die while attending a group field trip to Horton Plaza Mall as part of the seminar?

      Yes she did die while attending the Absolute Wealth Seminar and yes it was while attending the group field trip to the Horton Plaza Mall.

      Were you there? I'd really like to know what they do on these field trips?

      All of this is just crazy. I really hope all the followers step back and examine what they are hearing from James Arthur Ray. He doesn't really care about you and your well being, he wants you to think that so you continue to give him your money and attend his next class.
    by Brian · 10 months ago
      Hi RIA! I do know James Ray and I offered allot of information in my post today that gives you a pretty good idea of his character. He is a selfish guy and has one thing in mind... his own success and recognition. For him, take people to extremes is a game, he looks for all the applauses he will get in the end, when they survive the game. To figure it out what happened is not that difficult. Look at the facts. Nothing about this sweat lodge was sacred and in the top of it the people was physically unprepared, what can one expect?
    by NoMaya · 10 months ago
      Cassandra- Forgive me if me if didn't feel your writing was not an article. The Examiner is, in my experience, a hyped up blog. And that is perfect, it's fine. People offering opinions and insight. Your article is laced with personal opinion. Its editorial. It's a comment on current affairs. There is a story here, it's just the side comment and your personal distaste for self help is clear. Once again, that's cool. However, there has been many taking these types of "news stories" on this event as the bottom line truth. The internet breeds fast news now.

      Did you know that in the state of California, there is no counselor licensing? If you think the ethics of an oath make a person a good therapist, I would say that is very limited thinking. Again, my experience has shown me different.

      Do you think all additive persons should seek ONLY licensed help? A.A. and 12 step programs are just hype? Tell that to the millions of sober people. It's one of a dozen examples I could offer.
    by Brian · 10 months ago
      Hi NoMaya, I think you are missing the point. Mr Ray did not offer his group of traumatized people free consultation with their counselor of choice, he brought in some one that will support his brain wash and as plus is not a certified professional. I think that CA is unique, to trust counseling with some one that self learn the process would not be my personal choice, for that reason we have Universities and years of devotion to develop tools. Self learned counselors are not different than James Ray when comes to leading Native America ceremony and look where it ended up.
    by Gaias Child · 10 months ago
      Did these people fast for 36 hours, break it with a buffet breakfast, enter this overcrowded sweat for longer than two hours when their organs were managing a buffet breakfast? How is this delusional, conscienceless man not guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Now there are three people who did not survive and since when have these sacred ceremonies been used to gain wealth? Gross, criminal, and completely distorted.
    by Ellen · 10 months ago
      3rd person dies while Ray flees and refuses to talk to police. Do you think he'll even have the decency to refund the dead's money to surviving family members? I doubt it.

      What a good for nothing con artist this man is. It never ceases to amaze me how people can still fall for people like Ray. No different than David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones and $cientology. Sucker born every minute indeed.

      Give Ray the death penalty.
    by Saturn · 10 months ago
      NoMaya... Great examples of people using oppressive tactics for evil! The Dalai Lama let torture (Such as eye gouging) and oppression go on in Tibet under his reign without even speaking up against it. And The Pope... Sorry I'm only allowed about 800 words of text. Not enough to cover that position! But great examples to compare James Ray to! Kudos!
    by Victoria · 10 months ago
      NoMaya says there's no counselor licensing in California. This is not true. There are California State licenses issued for marriage and family therapists and for psychologists. California does not issue licenses for bachelor's level counselors, such as substance abuse counselors. But that doesn't mean that there are no licensed counselors. Marriage and family therapists are trained specifically to be counselors and have Master's degrees in counseing.
    by Attendee · 10 months ago
      Ignorance breeds fear and contempt. Not everyone saw the events at this week the same. It is not a cult -- it is a group of individuals whose strongest desire is to improve their lives so they can be effective in the world. So mind your own damn business.
    by Wealthy Warrior · 10 months ago
      My response to attendee is this - Is Howard's people talking to you? Or perhaps you are one of the Dream Team? Attendee said; "Not everyone saw the events at this week the same." How true! However I am inclined to respond to you in this way. I, too, am an attendee.... I, too, am one of a group of individuals whose strongest desire is to improve their lives so they can be effective in the world." Albeit I am VERY disturbed that you would tell anyone on this blog to "mind your own damn business". I personally want to heal and part of healing is not pretending it didn't happen or that I am ok - or others are ok. Part of healing is to say out loud, "I feel angry. I feel disappointed. I feel sad for all four of the people who are dead and I feel passionate James Ray is guilty of murder. That is my opinion. I am entitled to it. Please don't tell me or anyone on here to shut their mouth. I have a right to truth, reality and healing. If you don't like this conversation don't read it!


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 101-112
    « Reply #236 on: September 12, 2010, 10:48:44 AM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 101-112:


    by Ex JRI Warrior · 10 months ago
      well said "wealthy warrior"....i was not there but I am a past participant of JRI events. and i think all that people are looking for on here is the truth....and preventing people from the same fate in the future. I think all the blaming, name calling and the rude comments are uncalled for.
    by andre · 10 months ago
      You can't ever get closer to God by doing anything outside of your self. God is in your mind, there is where you should look for him. Not in a freaking sweaty tent, a crowded church or some religios ceremony! The secret place of God is IN YOUR MIND!!! He is in YOU. But that is the last place anyone looks for him. Don't make any man your God. GOD IS SPIRIT and if you want to worship him you must do it in your Spirit inside your MIND!!! Look there and not anywhere else! IT"S THAT SIMPLE!!
      '
      GREED, PRIDE, & SELFISHNESS brought this through the law of ATTRACTION. It never fails. The law is the law. Ray's SUPER EGO SCEWED HIM BIGTIME!! God Bless all the victoms and their families. I hope this fony is stopped.
    by Steve · 10 months ago
      This tragedy has caused a media pig pile on James Ray and a sad spillover effect on the law of attraction in general. It was the sweat lodge idea that was tragic
      I would like to know how many of the commenter?s who rush to judgment know anything about loa at all before making their pronouncements.
      The law of attraction?s basic concepts go back 1000?s of years and came from people like Christ, Buddha and Krishna.
      I learned all I could from a CD which cost under $100 and contained several extensive interviews covering every aspect of loa. It has made a profound impact on my life.
      In the early 1900?s a man named Charles Haanel taught it and called it the master key system. Businessmen who took the course felt it was so valuable they tried to buy it so it could no longer be distributed.
      If you listen to Joel Osteen on cable, you are listening to the same thing.
      Read an interview with any successful person and you will hear the same basic tenets. Are all these successful people frau
    by ScorpioMoon · 10 months ago
      James Ray preaches The Secret, and that we each create our realities. He has created quite a reality. He is responsible for the death of three people, and the loss for countless others. He is a self-made guru, bases his teachings on financial gain. What person with integrity charges $9000 for a five day workshop, and put them in a situation like this, then forces them to push themselves beyond their physical limitations? Answer: Someone who is delusional, greedy, and has sold their soul to the proverbial devil. I'm not a Christian, but I know that the Bible speaks of wolves in sheep's clothing. Unfortunately, many of the self-made millionaire "spiritual" dynamos have become those wolves--selling at the back of the room.
    by been there · 10 months ago
      wow. I am so glad for your work and critical and clear thinking. Abuse of people by un licensed non professionals is common. If you look up St Francis Adirondack Experience in Lake Placid NY and investigate that outfit, that may prove interesting to you.
    by Tracy · 10 months ago
      By not including all the trascript, the author of this piece has guaranteed that the transcript parts quoted can be taken out of context, with the author's words influencing the reader's train of thought. In short, this author is doing exactly what the author claims James Ray is doing: directing people's thinking.
    by sneekysnake · 10 months ago
      Look at this arrogance about personal accountability he wrote it himself

      Look up his huffington post blog "james-arthur-ray
      slash health-care-what-ever-hap_b_267315 DOT html

      Maybe the overworked fire-medics staff at hospitals, police officers and families and the state (most of his victims were uninsured)can be compensated with his ill gotten gains and he can pay the doctor bills.
    by Bryan · 9 months ago
      Given what's happened, this was an extremely disturbing read for me, but the world needs to know. Thank you Cassandra and unnamed attendee.
    by objective1 · 6 months ago
      this "cassandra" cleary is unconscious of her own intentions-what sick need in her is being fulfilled by calling the man names-She is obsessed with personally attacking him-I sense a very deep and personal hatred running through her articles-she is trying to start a lynch mob and has no knowlege whatsoever of spiritual growth or self improvement-Many of the principles James Ray taught are ancient truths-Clearly something went wrong in his teaching methods- The principles he teaches are sound-Nobody attacks christianity when a televangelist is caught using meth with a gay prostitute -Cassandra has appointed herself judge-jury-executioner-She is clearly trying to manipulate her "followers" in much the same way she claims JR is-what will you do Cassandra when your foolish and dangerous words fuel one of your followers to harm another-maybe you can share a cell with JR-
    by Cassandra Yorgey · 6 months ago
      objective1: Why is my name in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Your "senses", by the way, are wrong. I have never attended a James Ray event of any sort and quite frankly, I haven't even met him. I also don't need a whole lot of spritual growth or studies in self-improvement to know "thou shalt not kill" is a damn good idea, regardless of who thought of it or currently enforces it. I have absolutely no say whatsoever in James Ray's trial or conviction, so I'm not sure how you think I get to be judge or jury and I certainly am not going to execute *anybody*. If you really want to call me names, a more accurate insult would be "opinionated little snot who gets access to heaps of evidence, information, and witness accounts before the general populace and has no problem using her professional column to tell everyone all about it".
    by Abby Isadora Haydon · 5 months ago
      I am writing a book on James Ray.It is form a spiritual perspective. I have uncovered some information from James Ray's teachings that makes it clear what James Ray was trying to do. I need to interview some people who took the course. If you could help me get in touch with them, it would really help. I have a big agent interested. I am sending out the proposal next week. [email protected] Thanks
    by none · 3 months ago
      You're an idiotic reporter. Just as sensational and uninformed as the accussed but on the opposite end of the spectrum.


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments: "Breaking news: Transcript of...," #s 101-112
    « Reply #237 on: September 12, 2010, 10:53:48 AM »
    Comments on the above piece, "Breaking news: Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims" (by Cassandra Yorgey; October 15th, 2009; Examiner.com), #s 101-112:


    by Ex JRI Warrior · 10 months ago
      well said "wealthy warrior"....i was not there but I am a past participant of JRI events. and i think all that people are looking for on here is the truth....and preventing people from the same fate in the future. I think all the blaming, name calling and the rude comments are uncalled for.
    by andre · 10 months ago
      You can't ever get closer to God by doing anything outside of your self. God is in your mind, there is where you should look for him. Not in a freaking sweaty tent, a crowded church or some religios ceremony! The secret place of God is IN YOUR MIND!!! He is in YOU. But that is the last place anyone looks for him. Don't make any man your God. GOD IS SPIRIT and if you want to worship him you must do it in your Spirit inside your MIND!!! Look there and not anywhere else! IT"S THAT SIMPLE!!
      '
      GREED, PRIDE, & SELFISHNESS brought this through the law of ATTRACTION. It never fails. The law is the law. Ray's SUPER EGO SCEWED HIM BIGTIME!! God Bless all the victoms and their families. I hope this fony is stopped.
    by Steve · 10 months ago
      This tragedy has caused a media pig pile on James Ray and a sad spillover effect on the law of attraction in general. It was the sweat lodge idea that was tragic
      I would like to know how many of the commenter?s who rush to judgment know anything about loa at all before making their pronouncements.
      The law of attraction?s basic concepts go back 1000?s of years and came from people like Christ, Buddha and Krishna.
      I learned all I could from a CD which cost under $100 and contained several extensive interviews covering every aspect of loa. It has made a profound impact on my life.
      In the early 1900?s a man named Charles Haanel taught it and called it the master key system. Businessmen who took the course felt it was so valuable they tried to buy it so it could no longer be distributed.
      If you listen to Joel Osteen on cable, you are listening to the same thing.
      Read an interview with any successful person and you will hear the same basic tenets. Are all these successful people frau
    by ScorpioMoon · 10 months ago
      James Ray preaches The Secret, and that we each create our realities. He has created quite a reality. He is responsible for the death of three people, and the loss for countless others. He is a self-made guru, bases his teachings on financial gain. What person with integrity charges $9000 for a five day workshop, and put them in a situation like this, then forces them to push themselves beyond their physical limitations? Answer: Someone who is delusional, greedy, and has sold their soul to the proverbial devil. I'm not a Christian, but I know that the Bible speaks of wolves in sheep's clothing. Unfortunately, many of the self-made millionaire "spiritual" dynamos have become those wolves--selling at the back of the room.
    by been there · 10 months ago
      wow. I am so glad for your work and critical and clear thinking. Abuse of people by un licensed non professionals is common. If you look up St Francis Adirondack Experience in Lake Placid NY and investigate that outfit, that may prove interesting to you.
    by Tracy · 10 months ago
      By not including all the trascript, the author of this piece has guaranteed that the transcript parts quoted can be taken out of context, with the author's words influencing the reader's train of thought. In short, this author is doing exactly what the author claims James Ray is doing: directing people's thinking.
    by sneekysnake · 10 months ago
      Look at this arrogance about personal accountability he wrote it himself

      Look up his huffington post blog "james-arthur-ray
      slash health-care-what-ever-hap_b_267315 DOT html

      Maybe the overworked fire-medics staff at hospitals, police officers and families and the state (most of his victims were uninsured)can be compensated with his ill gotten gains and he can pay the doctor bills.
    by Bryan · 9 months ago
      Given what's happened, this was an extremely disturbing read for me, but the world needs to know. Thank you Cassandra and unnamed attendee.
    by objective1 · 6 months ago
      this "cassandra" cleary is unconscious of her own intentions-what sick need in her is being fulfilled by calling the man names-She is obsessed with personally attacking him-I sense a very deep and personal hatred running through her articles-she is trying to start a lynch mob and has no knowlege whatsoever of spiritual growth or self improvement-Many of the principles James Ray taught are ancient truths-Clearly something went wrong in his teaching methods- The principles he teaches are sound-Nobody attacks christianity when a televangelist is caught using meth with a gay prostitute -Cassandra has appointed herself judge-jury-executioner-She is clearly trying to manipulate her "followers" in much the same way she claims JR is-what will you do Cassandra when your foolish and dangerous words fuel one of your followers to harm another-maybe you can share a cell with JR-
    by Cassandra Yorgey · 6 months ago
      objective1: Why is my name in quotation marks? That makes no sense. Your "senses", by the way, are wrong. I have never attended a James Ray event of any sort and quite frankly, I haven't even met him. I also don't need a whole lot of spritual growth or studies in self-improvement to know "thou shalt not kill" is a damn good idea, regardless of who thought of it or currently enforces it. I have absolutely no say whatsoever in James Ray's trial or conviction, so I'm not sure how you think I get to be judge or jury and I certainly am not going to execute *anybody*. If you really want to call me names, a more accurate insult would be "opinionated little snot who gets access to heaps of evidence, information, and witness accounts before the general populace and has no problem using her professional column to tell everyone all about it".
    by Abby Isadora Haydon · 5 months ago
      I am writing a book on James Ray.It is form a spiritual perspective. I have uncovered some information from James Ray's teachings that makes it clear what James Ray was trying to do. I need to interview some people who took the course. If you could help me get in touch with them, it would really help. I have a big agent interested. I am sending out the proposal next week. [email protected] Thanks
    by none · 3 months ago
      You're an idiotic reporter. Just as sensational and uninformed as the accussed but on the opposite end of the spectrum.


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    Offline Ursus

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    Breaking News: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge...
    « Reply #238 on: September 15, 2010, 12:11:24 PM »
    Here's the aforementioned "part two." Emphasis as per the original:

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    Examiner.com
    Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat
    October 16th, 2009 3:36 pm ET · Cassandra Yorgey

    People are flailing in seizures; others are vomiting violently, or foaming at the mouth. Bodies are lined up unconscious, some are blue from lack of oxygen, but for some it is too late, they are already dead. Survivors that are barely able to stand struggle to help the others, they have had almost no food or water for nearly three days, even longer without sleep. It looks like a war zone, but for the incongruent figure of James Arthur Ray (a contributing author to The Secret) who exits the sweat lodge and stands tall with a big smile, the only one able to stand on his own volition. He is not concerned with the medical emergency going on full swing around him. He is not worried about the health and well-being of his followers who have paid $10,000.00 (tack on an additional 5,000.00 or so if you include flights, room and board, and camping supplies) to attend his retreat. In fact, he and his team urge people to stop taking care of others and focus on their own journey, assuring them they are fine and only "purging". Someone finally realizes James Ray is not in control of the situation and calls 911.

    It sounds like this is right out of a science fiction novel, doesn't it? But sadly, this is one of those rare times I pull my head out of a fantasy book and report on reality. How did a retreat aimed at spiritual growth and financial wealth go so horribly, tragically wrong? Those who were not present are pointing fingers at the physical experience of a sweat lodge – was it constructed properly by James Ray and his staff? Did they have the proper building permits? Did they use too many hot rocks or have too many participants? Does the government need to issue standardized guidelines for sweat lodge participants? After interviewing one of James Ray’s victims who was present at the retreat, I would argue no - although it is clear the technical specifications of the lodge were innapropriate. This is not an accident of negligence because a leader was untrained in the Native American sweat lodge practices. This tragedy is the consequence of a charismatic, megalomaniacal smooth-talker with undue influence and his own agenda – one that did not, at any point during the retreat, account for the safety of the participants, physically, mentally, or emotionally. This offends me as a backpacker and wilderness enthusiast, as a dabbler in psychological theory, and as someone who has an interest in bettering myself morally – but most importantly, it offends me as a human being who has compassion and empathy for my fellow humans.

    Today I'm going to look deep into the soulless belly of the James Ray Spiritual Warrior retreat with thoughts and descriptions based on what I have learned from firsthand witnesses and participants. These brave victims are speaking in the midst of recovery (on the condition of anonymity) because of the urgency of the situation, as well as a moral obligation to the victims who passed away, Kirby Brown (38) and James Shore (40) and their families, and to those who can still be saved from this man. James Ray and the Angel Valley retreat have lied repeatedly, stating that they have never had any problems at previous retreats and that nothing like this has ever happened before - yet it is well documented that police are investigating multiple James Ray retreat locations and that a similar incident happened at the very same Angel Valley retreat center in AZ, at a James Ray retreat no less, in 2005. Why the lies? Well, there is no way these guys could tell you the truth without immediate prosecution, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars, and proceed immediately to jail. Speaking of money, did you know neither James Ray nor Angel Valley has refunded any of the money they have collected from this retreat? I mean, obviously there will be lawsuits but it would be in good taste to refund the victims. It would be in better taste to also pick up the hospital charges, but James Ray is clearly not about accountability or decency to others. But enough about that, you want to know what the heck happened at this retreat and I am here to relay that to you.
     
    Before the retreat even started, participants were advised to read The Holotropic Mind by Stanislav Grof and Hal Zina Bennett, as well as listen to a CD titled The Holosync Solution Awakening Prologue (the CD set is 175.00 dollars and not included in with the cost of the retreat, by the way). I have not read The Holotropic Mind personally, however Stanislav Grof is notable in the field of psychiatry for his studies on altered states of consciousness. After (briefly) searching Wikipedia and James Ray's personal website, I am unable to find any credentials that would qualify him to be using psychological techniques. His website only states he "has studied and been exposed to a wide diversity of teachings and teachers – from his collegiate learning and the schools of the corporate world, to the ancient cultures of Peru, Egypt and the Amazon." Pretty vague, huh? I mean, it's never killed James Ray to name-drop before *coughOprahcough*. Which schools? What teachers?
     
    The first day or so of the retreat was mostly unremarkable as far as self-help retreats go – a lot of time spent in the "classroom" doing meditation and listening to other CD's as well as lectures. I say "mostly" because James Ray urged participants to forego sleep, insisting that working on their assignments all night would be more beneficial. Sleep deprivation is well-known to cause impairment of ability and of deductive reasoning, often times displaying comparable results to consumption of alcohol. Why would a self-help retreat supposedly focused on healing want to keep participants from thinking clearly? My guess is because the aim of the retreat was not self-improvement but coercive persuasion. If you are not familiar with the term it can be summed up as techniques used to produce ideological and behavioral changes in a fully conscious, mentally intact individual. Is this an acceptable practice? I would say it depends, like so many other things, on the execution. It certainly can be used to beneficial effect; however it can also employ means such as psychological pressure, hypnotic suggestion, undue influence, threats, anxiety, intimidation and/or stress in an unethical manner.
     
    Some people might find it more alarming that immediately upon starting the retreat participants shaved their heads – before the sleep deprivation. Yes, even the women. This actually doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I think every woman should shave her head at least once in her life. Besides, all the kids are doing it. It's fashionable. It's also emotionally freeing. However, I know a lot of family members of the participants are upset about it – excuses such as "It looks dykey!" or "You're in a cult!" get tossed around, to which I roll my eyes. "Wait!" you're probably accusing me right now, "I read your transcript of the conference call James Ray made to these victims, and you outright accuse him of being a cult leader!" Yes, you are absolutely right; I do state repeatedly that James Ray is a cult leader.
     
    Many commenters chided me for using the term inappropriately, but I stand by my terminology. They were right to chide me though, because I didn't make clear that not all of James Ray's followers are cult members. Not even all of his victims could be considered cult members. This is a very important distinction that I want to take a moment to clear up. James Ray and his staff display cult-like qualities that are dangerous to the followers, from people who idly glanced at The Secret all the way through to the victims of his sweat lodge tragedy, but his followers are not a cult. One more time, for emphasis - James Ray's followers are not a cult. Reading his works, practicing some of his techniques at home by yourself, these things do not make a cult member. Not even attending the seminars guarantees membership into the ranks of cult. If James Ray spouted the crazy right up front no one would listen. Think of the tale of Hansel and Gretel – the Witch lured them in with a house made of delicious candy and then locked them in an oven. James Ray is smarter than the Witch though, because he stuffed Hansel and Gretel and their pockets full of candy and sent them back to the village to lure the others in. More people for the oven-oops-I-mean-sweat-lodge that way, you see. There is nothing wrong with sweat lodges, ovens, candy, or some of these teachings; it is all in how you use it. Now that we've cleared that up, let's get back to what happened at the deadly retreat.
     
    Day Two the sleep deprivation has begun - but that by itself is not enough of a warning to foresee this tragedy. The real warning signs begin with the James Ray Games. One of the brave and recovering victims described a game they all had to play in which James Ray played God. Yep, you read that right; James Ray cast himself in the role of God and would then command participants to die. He would point at someone and they would have to fall down and play dead. They would be covered with a blanket and if they moved another person would "die".
     
    Kirby Brown exemplified the dangerous psychological twisting behind these games. After the game she was seen standing in line for the outhouse, clutching herself and crying. After another participant ushered her to the front of the line they asked her "Why didn't you just get up and go?" She looked up sincerely and said she didn't want to ruin the game for others. It breaks my heart to know that James Ray took the life of such a compassionate woman away, a woman willing to suffer so others could benefit, but it also really pisses me off that he warped such a sweet motivation and used it masochistically. My inner neo-hippie rises up and shouts "Dude! No one should have to hold it so long it hurts!" That's just cruel.
     
    "What was the motivation behind such games?" you are probably demanding of your computer screen right now. James Ray reasoned something along the lines of "it demonstrated the transcendental nature of death" and explained how it would allow participants to leave behind their fears of death. He spoke of honor, integrity, and strength. He spoke of being reborn (These are not direct quotes, they are adlibbed from the memories of participants).
     
    At the end of the second day the James Ray Vision Quest began. I personally have done several vision quests in the desert so I do have an inkling of an idea of what I'm talking about here. I find the biggest red flags of dangerous indoctrination to be restriction of water, food, or bathroom breaks – So when I heard James Ray dropped everyone off in the desert with no food, no water, and nothing but a sleeping bag, the clothes on their back, and a notebook I start to sputter obscenities. No water, in the desert, for 36+ hours is dangerous. I've always been told to drink at least a gallon of water a day when hiking in the desert. Furthermore, even if the participants had been fully rested and cognitively ready to question the water restriction, it is still completely traditional (and uneccesary) to go without food on these solo journeys.
     
    James Ray mixes a subtle combination of increasingly risky behavior with perfectly legitimate practices that leave these poor victims slightly confused and he keeps them physically in a hurry -preventing them from sitting down and taking the time to think these things through. We've all been in that state of mind. Who hasn't pulled an all-nighter studying just to be on autopilot the next day in class? Yeah, we can still function but it takes its toll. Now imagine before this all-nighter you've spent your classes working on trust exercises, being coddled by your professor and told how it's important to relearn trusting others. You will be taken care. You are provided for. Stop thinking about those things and focus on your inner journey. Just learn stuff. Of course, you've paid $15,000 dollars or so to be there, so you expect to be able to really relax and let go. This is why James Ray is such a dangerous man, anyone could fall into that trap. By the time the participants started to think "Hey, I should have really insisted on that canteen of sweet, delicious, life-giving water..." it's too late. They were stranded alone, in the dark, in an unknown location in the Arizona desert.
     
    If you haven't done one of these vision quests it might be hard to understand how the participants didn't want to leave after that, but I assure you, it's a powerful experience even when you're fully rested and stuff yourself full of food and water. I imagine that sense of wonder and transformation is magnified when one is starving and dehydrated. Sleep was still hard to come by because most participants were not prepared for the devastating cold that comes over the desert at night. Participants were coerced into buying thickly woven Peruvian ponchos for additional charges of $250.00. While that price may seem exorbitant, one victim I interviewed was happy to have paid it, repeatedly stating that it was literally life-saving. The tightly woven material also kept out the intermittent rain, helping to keep participants dry. Still, sleep was hard to come by in those temperatures, being fitful at best and it hardly alleviated the impaired thinking that has become prevalent. It's easy to see how thinking could become distorted at this point – feelings of being ripped off by a leader and staff that didn't give proper information about necessary equipment are battling with rationalizations of how at least they pushed the extra gear on everyone instead of letting them freeze to death.
     
    When James Ray's team finally returned to pick them up from their isolation (surprisingly enough, James Ray was not fasting on a vision quest during this period, nor were his staff – makes you wonder what they were doing, huh?) the participants were all so happy to be warm, with food and water, and thrilled to be surrounded by all their new friends who were all equally excited about their amazing transformative experiences, that the measly hour or so they had to eat and rehydrate themselves flew by. Food was hardly touched, most people opting to drink water first which quickly filled their newly shrunken stomachs. Before anyone had a chance to really recover the participants were whisked off to a group meditation (led by James Ray) and then to the final piece of the James Ray Spiritual Warrior Retreat. The sweat lodge.
     
    We've painted a picture of the participants mental state leading up to the sweat lodge, and we know what happened when James Ray turned the relaxing Native American equivalent of a sauna into an endurance competition. He not only encouraged participants to stay and push past physical discomfort, he also actively dissuaded people that wanted to leave. The phrase "push through your threshold" was repeated often by James Ray. If participants didn't make it to the door fast enough they had to wait for the next round. James Ray would slam the tarp shut shouting "Too late! Door's shut!" and as he was sitting directly next to the door he was escalating it into a physical confrontation (not to mention he was the only one getting reprieve from the heat. Others could not feel a thing when the door was opened) – playing off something we are trained from birth to avoid. Throughout all this, James Ray is speaking words of encouragement. He speaks of how throwing up is good and actually purging (it isn't. it's actually a sign of dehydration and many other bad things), and explains that passing out is common (it isn't). He encourages people who find it too hot to bury their faces in the dirt, because it was cooler. This is like telling people to stay in a sauna and if it's too hot – hey, just stick your face by the bottom of the door!
     
    These honorable participants tried time and time again to re-organize and keep everyone safe, but at every stage they were thwarted by James Ray and his staff. Participants who expressed concern over others were told time and time again to focus on their own journey, and not to interfere with another's. Once outside the enclosure some people were physically restrained from helping the rescue effort by staff members. One unconscious victim was dropped on their head while staff carried them out of the sweat lodge.
     
    After paramedics responded, James Ray was escorted away by police; however he chose his right to silence. Police are reported to have released James Ray that evening, at which point he immediately left the state (this is based on other reports in the media).
     
    This type of devastation isn't caused by a faulty sweat lodge, oh no, people will leave a faulty sweat lodge when left to their own devices. This is the fault of a leader who seems to think Jonestown was a super idea, and Hitler had some great technique. There are probably some who question my interpretations of the psychology here, and you should because I am not certified for this stuff in any way, so please contribute your own thoughts and research. My opinion is based on research of the following topics: Coercive persuasion, POW mind control studies, wilderness programs to rehabilitate delinquent youth as well as adult programs such as Landmark Education, the Milgram Experiment, Stockholm syndrome, Jonestown tragedy, cult psychology, and many other random topics that I've studied for my current work-in-progress.
     
    What will other self-help gurus say about this kind of behavior? Will Oprah continue to endorse James Ray? When dealing with cult leaders and other dangerously charismatic people we must always remember to focus not on the beauty of one's words, but on the morality of one's actions.

    For more info: I am not the only teen advocate speaking out. Shawna Bowen is a licensed therapist who focuses on teens with substance abuse problems. I am not familiar with her body of work but the things she reveals in this interview seem to be supporting my own research. Click here to see her on CBS.

    Finally, I have been piecing this retelling together for days. Checking and re-checking to verify everything is as accurate as we can make it. I say "we" even though I was not there. This is not my story. I have offered my voice to victims that wish to remain faceless because, well, how can I not? These people are not only victims, but survivors. I offer them all my support, love, strength, and protection. It is my hope that in sharing this we can put an end to any victim-blaming and focus our efforts on providing a safe and loving place for victims to be able to come forth without fear, but until that time I ask everyone to respect the privacy of those affected by this tragedy. I feel honored by those who have stepped forth and extended me their trust, I know it is an amazing act of bravery and I will do my best to represent the honesty, integrity, and strength that James Ray failed to deliver.

    Want to be notified of new articles? Subscribe to email notifications here.

    Follow me on Twitter here.

    In case the FTC is wondering, I do not endorse James Ray and he has never compensated me in any way.



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    Offline Anne Bonney

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    Re: Breaking News: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge.
    « Reply #239 on: September 15, 2010, 01:18:42 PM »
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Here's the aforementioned "part two." Emphasis as per the original:

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    Examiner.com
    Breaking news: Inside accounts of James Ray sweat lodge tragedy and retreat
    October 16th, 2009 3:36 pm ET · Cassandra Yorgey



    In case the FTC is wondering, I do not endorse James Ray and he has never compensated me in any way.



     :rofl:  :rofl:
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    traight, St. Pete, early 80s
    AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

    The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa