Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Ellen Behren's Industry Study Funded by AEG
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---
FIRST: "Don't believe a word of what those lying manipulators say, even if they say they are dying. They're faking it."
SECOND: "This study based on lying manipulators' statements prove programs are effective. They're telling the God's honest truth!"
In order to believe the second proposition, you must invalidate the first. Your whole line of reasoning goes up in smoke here.
--- End quote ---
I have to disagree here. I believe we should not try to diminish or cover-up the feed back we get from survivors. DJ, you may feel that survivors are not telling the truth when they speak about their experiences but we need to listen to all the stories not just some of them.
There may be those which we believe are the truth and those which we choose not to believe, but they should still get an equal voice in my opinion.
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Troll Control:
No, it's not that I don't believe survivors. It's that you, for many years, have been saying that kids in programs lie and manipulate - so much so that you have excused their being killed by staff who refused to call 911 because they belived the kids were "faking it." Only now you want everyone to beliueve the opposite - that program kids are honest.
It has been your argument all along, not mine. All I'm saying is the obvious, which the researcher herself included in the work; that kids are highly motivated (biased) to report progress in order to get out of the program. This is the same argument you've been using here since you came on this board for why they SHOULD NOT be believed - "They'll say anything to get out of the program!" Now you're asking everyone to believe the opposite. It's illogical.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---No, it's not that I don't believe survivors. It's that you, for many years, have been saying that kids in programs lie and manipulate -
--- End quote ---
If you really worked around kids like you claim you did you would know that some kids do lie and manipulate. You need to guard against this and take it into consideration. I think where many people here on fornits (yourself included) get tripped up is if you experience or read an event you apply it to all events.
Some kids will lie and manipulate but this doesn't mean that all kids lie and manipulate. Do you see what I mean? The study sampled 1,000 kids.. did any of them lie? Who knows maybe. But that is the beauty of pulling a large sample like this is to insure you are getting representative feedback.
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Troll Control:
The problem is that it's a large biased sample, as Behrens admitted when she was unable to explain why kids who went for one day did as well as kids who went for 24 months.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction" ---The marketing campaign is polished, it just lies about the study results.
And the study clearly states that the length of stay has no effect on the outcome. The obvious conclusion is if the results are the same, keep the stay as short as possible and the cost as low as possible. It's a stunning find by Behrens that there's no diference in outcome for kids who left early against program advice and kids who stayed for the full program. Kinda blows holes in the whole "kids who don't finish the program fail" theory, huh? You've said that many times.
--- End quote ---
I see it a little differently. The kids who leave early (say 6 months) may report the same results as the kids who stay the entire time. This is due to that the majority of the change has occurred by then and the child appears to be better. The time in the final phase of the programs is used to solidify the childs changes and prepare the child for the transition home.
Great discussion, DJ, I found this finding interesting myself. I would like to see the kids fill these out at 3 month intervals to see if there is any variance from the onset to the 3 month mark and then again from the 6 month mark to the end of the program (just purely from a reporting perspective to see how the kids feel they are benefiting and at what time along the time-line they wee this effect).
However, in this case, those who left against program advice left, on average, during
the last stage of treatment. Clinical staff in private residential care often devote the last few
weeks or months to consolidation of gains and transfer of skills. In essence, this last phase is
typically designed to solidify change. Parents and adolescents who discharge against program
advice during this last phase may not appreciate the need for continued care because problems
appear resolved.
p.14
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study
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