Tell me the Class Action is NOT about PURE...yeah right.

[Deborah]

Who gets to deem what is necessary or appropriate? You? Sue? Who? Not me.

Carey,
Not you? Of course you are deeming it appropriate to post private communications, you did. And you chose to leave a third party's (my) name in the email, whether you knew it was me or not. It was "some" third party, and if you didn't know who that third party was, then all the more reason to delete the name. It doesn't matter that it was me. Their musings about me and what I was about had nothing to do with the reason you gave for posting it.

**I just tell what I know firsthand. Besides I did not drag you into this conversation, Jeff and Sue did.

Actually Carey, they were having a PRIVATE conversation, trying to figure out what I was about. That's what groups of people who are aligned do. Ever worked in a group? It's to be expected. If they'd have asked, I'd have told them.

Neither of them "drug me into" the PUBLIC conversation on this message board.
You did.

Carey you said:
My point was, as it was titled "This one is a joke...Sue's not in it for the money...right."
then,
"I believe I titled that post "its a joke" not "here is proof".
She, Sue that is, thinks she is convincing others that she is in it because she cares. She said she is not in it for the money. That is the joke! Get it?

No Carey, I don't get it.
I've read that email three times now and I can not see anything in that message that validates THE REASON YOU STATED FOR POSTING IT. I asked you which statement indicated, alludesd to, proved, (whatever word fits here for you) that she's in it for the money- your stated reason for posting it. You didn't answer the question.

Because your responses don't make sense and are irrational, I continue to believe you had other motives.
Deborah






[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2003-08-31 21:56 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2003-08-30 20:43:00, Deborah wrote:

"This is very interesting.

Let's get a few things straight. I appreciate the opportunity to address this.



I don't have a BOARD, never have. I do have a highly screened LISTSERVE that I sat up over two years ago with some very distinguished members- ex-parents, advocates, authors, and activists, some who have not had any direct contact with the industry at all; but who were interested in exploring and discussing the atrocities of "Teen Help Industry" in general. It is called Teen Help Activism. Hence, the reason Sue may have had an interest in what was happening there.  



At the time of its inception, I knew very little about the industry, but wanted to understand more about the warped individuals who had seized control of my son and my rights. I had no idea there was an arm of WWASP refered to as Teen Help and never intended the list to be focused on WWASP. My son was in a non-WWASP facility- I used the term Teen Help to describe the entire industry, as many did and do. The idea for a listserve was hatched on the "We've Been There" message board, and is still posted there.



Jeff has been a member of that list from very early on, but at no time identified himself as a Pure representative. His membership to the list was approved by the other members. Several said he would definitely be an asset to the group and no one opposed. And honestly, when the day is done, I don't care if he is there. I have no private or hidden agenda. I wanted a private place to share information with others without being subjected to miserable pro-program messages that made their way onto every message board I had found. I didn't want to hear one more person tell me to relax, all was well, let the program work. Although Jeff never disclosed much about himself, he has shared some important information with others and has never once promoted or mentioned Pure. Under those conditions he is welcomed to remain a member, as the purpose of the listserve is to share information.



Over the months I did notice that all Jeff's post were pertaining to WWASP, but thought, of well, that's who his beef is with. I still support any effort he makes in the direction of exposing the truth about that particular program/conglomerate.



A number of other members of my listserve who will remain unnamed, post here regularly and absolutely know that I am anti-any program or ed con and have no affiliation with anyone. They are not anonomous posters and have no affiliation with anyone either.



As to Sue's comment that she had been in contact with me- IF she ever had any contact with me she either used an alias or did so via another person. I don't know who Donna H is??  I assume Sue was attempting to case me out to see if I was friend or foe, and APPREARS (according to this email) to have had Jeff keeping tabs on my listserve.



Oh well, I'm sure they all found out soon enough, as she states, that I was "all over the map, with an agenda that is not exactly clear". That's because there was NO AGENDA, but to share information, vent, and vision. She might have mentioned the lengthy discussion that occured regarding the creation of an alternative to the illegal incarceration of youth. Something along the lines of a free safe house for teens who were having problems with their parents. I'm sure that one blew her mind.



I obviously wasn't a candidate for the Pure camp, but Sue was apparently interested in any information that may have been shared on my LISTSERVE (not a board) which might serve her agenda.
<
And, as I've said here before, aside from



Deborah"

Wise up Deborah, Donna H. is the late Donna Headrick, founder of Intrepid Net Reporter (now known as Intrepid Net Reporters).

 :rofl:

[Carey]

Deborah,
You don't have to get it.  It is not necessary that you do.  You do not have to like that I posted it. Like I already said, I have posted a lot of things that have upset a lot of people.   I do not remember asking for approval from you and your listserv anymore than I remember asking for Sue and her listserv's approval.  Nor do I remember asking for WWASP's approval or Dundee's approval when I have posted things about them.  That is not what these forums are about.  

These forums are about sharing your experience so that others can learn from them and possibly avoid making the same types of mistakes.  Of course there is one big difference that you and I share, we did not make the mistake, our ex's made the mistake.  But still, we can share with others what has happened to our families and hopefully others will be able to avoid the pain.

You see those who don't have things to hide, do not have a problem with what I post.  Those who do are afraid of what I know.

I am going to say this again, as I know I have stated it in the past, WWASP did not hurt me and my boys, Dundee, PURE, Bozak, Amberly and Joe are the ones who are responsible for that.  These are the individuals who exploited my families situation.

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 18:26 ]

[Carey]

Karen,

How about letting Sue and the others who exploited me speak for themselves.  You were not a part of any of that.  So you do not know anything about it other than what THEY/SUE tells you.

Yes, I could have brought my boys home without their help.   Did I know that at the time. NO.  I was doing what I did the way that I did based on what I was being told.  

Let me ask you Karen, why do you think I could not have done it without their help?  You seem to imply that I could not have brought my boys home with out their help.  Explain that...with all your intimate knowledge of the situation.

Let me also ask you this, how do you think they helped?  In what way?  Once again with all of your intimate knowledge of the experience.  Share with us...please!

I can assure you, you have no idea!  

By the way, when we were in Costa Rica, you  know what Bozak asked me, "What in the world has Sue been telling you about this place?"  Karen, what do you think he was getting at?  

I would love to share his and my contract.  The one he and I signed.  I can assure you had nothing to do with what we did.  Why?    He and Sue are connected.  I have the email to prove that. Why did he not want to talk to the reporter?  Can you answer that?  Didn't think so.  I did what I did because I was scared shitless for my boys.  THEY took advantage of that! Did they do what they did because they cared, no they did it for the money!

Karen what do you really know about anything?

[Anonymous]

Don't worry Carey, not everybody following this dialogue is stupid enough to buy into Karen's version of the truth when it's obvious she has a vested interest in promoting PURE's agenda (even if she isn't a REAL MEMBER).  LOL

[Anonymous]

Yeah, why doesn't the great and powerful OZ come out from behind the curtain and enlighten us with her PURE vision of reality?  

 :rofl:

[Anonymous]

Karen Z writes: "I don?t think green fever is one of them. I just never saw any indication of it."

Because YOU have NOT been open to seeing it.  Your awareness seems very selective - if it's NOT about money, what is it?  Uh, okay, maybe it could also be because wwasps shut her out - b/c maybe they saw how she operates and wanted nothing to do with it??   :wink:

[Deborah]

So Karen, are you suggesting that others should view Sue as a philanthropist? Whose mission is saving American Youth by assisting their parents with placements into teen warehousing facilites?

One thing I've noticed, people never get "enough" money or status.

Deborah

[anon]

[ This Message was edited by: KarenZ on 2003-10-17 18:28 ]

[Anonymous]

the joke is the fact that crazy carey is derranged enough to think the class action is about her obbession. get a life carey.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-09-01 16:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the joke is the fact that crazy carey is derranged enough to think the class action is about her obbession. get a life carey."

No stupid head, you are the crazy one. The proof is in the pudding (the emails shared by Carey which reveal the truth about PURE). But go ahead, try to unring the bell anyway.  Nothing else to do ....

[spots]

Carey, in a post made today, Labor Day, said:

"I am going to say this again, as I know I have stated it in the past, WWASP did not hurt me and my boys, Dundee, PURE, Bozak, Amberly and Joe are the ones who are responsible for that. These are the individuals who exploited my families situation."

Ms. Bock has every right to wish vengence on whoever she thinks did her wrong.  I was just very surprised by her statement.  

About this statement, that WWASP did not hurt her...  My feeling about this Teen Help board was that the WWASPS modality, being so similar to Straight, etc., was the culprit, and that it was the greater evil to be targeted. While each facility trumpets individual ownership, they all state, loud and clear, that they all use the same model of behavior modification.  That model is what I personally feel is wrong, abusive, and fraudulent.

I have a different perspective now as Ms. Bock has explained her argument is with individuals and small companies who individually and personally affronted her and her children.  I now understand why Ms. Bock keeps bringing back every thread to her personal issues with this small group. By reminding myself that I am personally hurt by WWASPS, and Ms. Bock has been personally hurt by [the whole raft of complainants], I may be able to distance myself from Ms. Bock's very different goals.  My goal is to make a better safety net for teenagers and their parents who expect one thing, and get another.  It is very apparent now that Ms. Bock and I are not on the same mission.  As long as her mission doesn't smother mine, go for it, Carey.

[Carey]

Spots, you are just now figuring out that you and I are not on the same mission.  I knew that about 50 posts ago and several emails ago.

I am going to hold accountable those who have hurt my family.  Like I said, that being Dundee, PURE/Sue, Bozak, Amberly and Joe.  You see what has been done to me is fact.  

If you have a beef with Casa, WWASP and whoever else, go get em' tiger.  But I am not going to jump on the bandwagon with a bunch of others who make accusations and then don't have shit to back them up with.  If people like Chris want to tell me they have pictures of kids in dog kennels...then show them to me.  Do not just make the claim and expect me to believe it just because you say it so.  Thats not right.  You and I have had this conversation before, privately.  If there are pictures of kids in dog kennels and people like Chris are holding them out for revenge in a court case while children are suffering (if it really is so) then shame on them.  I would hate to think that if what Chris says is true, that your granddaughter could be in one of those cages right now as a result of Chris keeping them secret for a case in court that could take months.  Wouldn't you?  Either its a crock of shit, or those people with the pictures are pretty ruthless and self centered.

No we are not on the same page, you are right about that.  Never will be.   You see, I am kind of a "show me the money" kind of person.  I want proof.  Not accusations.  I will be the first to say "oh my god, unbelievable" when I see proof.  Until then you can rant and rave all you want about what you want and I will do the same myself.

You go after your boogie man and I will go after mine.  Obviously, the two are not one in the same.  

By the way, there was nothing hidden inside the post.  It was right there in black and white just like everything else I stated.

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-09-01 18:14 ]

[Anonymous]

I know that if someone has pictures of kids in dog cages, they weren't taken at Casa by the Sea!  That would have been exposed many times over! There's been too many kids, too many parents and too many government inspections to not have found that.  What intelligent person would even latch on to something so outrageous?