Anyone know of any reasonably priced RTC's in Oregon Area?

[AtomicAnt]

I don't need to spend time looking up "studies" for you. I've spoken with plenty of kids that certain programs did help them. I have also spoken to kids who said they made them worse. Everyone is different, and everyone has different experiences in programs.

Exactly. Everyone is different and that is why a one-size-fits all, tough love approach is no alternative to a real diagnosis and treatment plan. If you can't come up with a valid diagnosis, then no placement is warranted.

Tough love programs change outward behavior while driving the real issues deeply inside and hiding them for fear of punishment or humiliation. That is hardly a cure.

Those survivors who come out of a program and cry foul are the healthy ones. They see abuse for what it is. They have a sense of fairness and justice that is still intact.

Those kids who claim they were helped are the real losers. They have accepted a twisted, cult-like view of the world in which they accept the blame for the abuse and injustices others have inflicted upon them.

A boy named John (alias) goes to see a movie with two friends. John's father has set a time and place to pick the kids up and drive them home. The boys are there. The father does not show up at the appointed time. John calls his Dad and the Dad begins the drive to the meeting place. Meanwhile, the town's curfew time passes. Two older kids enter the scene and behave in a disorderly way. The proprietor calls the police. The police apprehend all five youth. At John's hearing, his father admits to falling asleep in front of the TV. It is clearly established that John and his friends were not disorderly. Yet, the Judge states it was John's responsibility to obey the curfew and imposes probation on the boy. He says John should have called and reminded his father to pick him up before the curfew. John, young and confused, agrees that perhaps he should have called to make sure his dad would not forget. Does anyone else see how twisted that is? The boy is blamed for the shortcomings of the parent because the boy did not ensure the parent did the right thing? The boy buys this 'logic.'

This is the mindset of the program. They believe that whatever happens to the kid are the results of the kid's choices. Kids who accept this mindset and say the program helped them will never be able to live up to their own standards. They may be well behaved and successful, but they will forever nurture feelings of inadequacy.

There are Christians who feel this way. They believe we are all sinners and therefore must repent. We were born of sin, after all. God has imposed a set of rules no human can follow. Gee, that was our fault, I suppose? So we should all feel bad about our inadequate, sinning selves and throw ourselves at the mercy of the higher power; be that God or the Program. This is simply a slave mentality. It's sick. It is even more sick when these 'Christians' run programs and force others to think this way.

[CCM girl 1989]

I think the problem here is that CCM Girl said "I'm sure there are some good programs out there".   I totally understand the appropriately negative reactions this comment got.  It is not enough to say that you are "sure" there are "some" good programs out there unless you can name them and explain why they are good.  That is what it is all about.  Your previous posts seem to be anti-program so you seem to be back-peddling with the above comment.  Again, unless you KNOW of a SPECIFIC program that is "good" and can say WHY it is good you should not be putting y our seal of approval on the concept.  It makes you just like all those parents out there who ASSUME the programs their friends, neighbors and even family send their kids off to must be OK.  Seems to me one of the main purposes of this forum is to debunk such assumptions and educate people.

Well, you're no better, if it is your attempt to scare the hell out of parents who have children with serious issues to keep them at home, and not find treatment for them at all. Don't you see you're no better then programs that say to parents that their child is going to end up dead, or in jail, unless you put them in our school.

I understand what you are getting at, but I have said over and over for parents to investigate. To really do their homework, because once again their intentions although they may be good, can turn into a real nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Come on CCM Girl;  you are in intelligent young lady and you know I did not in any way say parents should  keep children with "serious issues:" home and not find treatment for them.  I don't equate "treatment" with "programs".   You made a very erroneous assumption about what I meant;  nowhere it my post did I actually say or imply this at all.

You said that you are "sure" there are some "good programs" out there.   Ok, fair enough.  So how did you come to be "sure"?  Which programs and in what way are they good?  Unless you can be specific you are only making assumptions. On another thread a person mentioned a good "program"  called Rock Point in the New England somewhere.  He went there and lived it.  It was good because it did not include a bunch of programmie crap and it taught him real life skills.  I don't recall any negative flak over this.So, once again, if you are "sure" there are "good programs" out there, what are they and why are they good?  Unless you can do this, saying you are sure there are good programs out there is just a mindless blanket endorsement of the concept.

[CCM girl 1989]

Come on CCM Girl;  you are in intelligent young lady and you know I did not in any way say parents should  keep children with "serious issues:" home and not find treatment for them.  I don't equate "treatment" with "programs".   You made a very erroneous assumption about what I meant;  nowhere it my post did I actually say or imply this at all.

You said that you are "sure" there are some "good programs" out there.   Ok, fair enough.  So how did you come to be "sure"?  Which programs and in what way are they good?  Unless you can be specific you are only making assumptions. On another thread a person mentioned a good "program"  called Rock Point in the New England somewhere.  He went there and lived it.  It was good because it did not include a bunch of programmie crap and it taught him real life skills.  I don't recall any negative flak over this.So, once again, if you are "sure" there are "good programs" out there, what are they and why are they good?  Unless you can do this, saying you are sure there are good programs out there is just a mindless blanket endorsement of the concept.

I am sure because if 2 outta 3 programs that I attended were good, and I found them helpful........then I base it on numbers. I think what makes a good school/program is a system with rules that make sense, and are consistant, that coupled with lots of therapy, and staff that are trained properly on how to deal with kids with problems.  You need some rules just to keep order. But, it shouldn't be about breaking a youths spirit.

Last time I checked I didn't apply for an Ed Con position? All I can do is base what I have to say on my experiences. I'm not about to travel around the country and go through each and every school so I can refer parents to them. That's not my job.

[Oz girl]

I  Your previous posts seem to be anti-program so you seem to be back-peddling with the above comment.  Again, unless you KNOW of a SPECIFIC program that is "good" and can say WHY it is good you should not be putting y our seal of approval on the concept.  It makes you just like all those parents out there who ASSUME the programs their friends, neighbors and even family send their kids off to must be OK.  Seems to me one of the main purposes of this forum is to debunk such assumptions and educate people.

I though the main purpose of the forum was to discuss programmes in an uncensored environment. Whoever said that anyone has to have one simplistic view which they continually pedal anyway?  CCM girl has not convinced me that there is any such thing as a good programme but why should she be forced to justify her postion by being a walking advertisement for a specific place? If she did that she would be accused of being a troll! :roll:

[CCM girl 1989]

I  Your previous posts seem to be anti-program so you seem to be back-peddling with the above comment.  Again, unless you KNOW of a SPECIFIC program that is "good" and can say WHY it is good you should not be putting y our seal of approval on the concept.  It makes you just like all those parents out there who ASSUME the programs their friends, neighbors and even family send their kids off to must be OK.  Seems to me one of the main purposes of this forum is to debunk such assumptions and educate people.

I though the main purpose of the forum was to discuss programmes in an uncensored environment. Whoever said that anyone has to have one simplistic view which they continually pedal anyway?  CCM girl has not convinced me that there is any such thing as a good programme but why should she be forced to justify her postion by being a walking advertisement for a specific place? If she did that she would be accused of being a troll! :roll:

Thanks for pointing this out Oz girl! You have a good idea of who I am as a person. We were able to talk on the phone a few months back when your neice was having some problems at home. You know that I am not pro programs. Especially in her case, which was so similar to mine. Except for the fact my parents did go through with sending me away at the age of 12.

It's hard when parents have lots of money, because they can pay to keep their child away from the home. A lot of times it does have to do with the relationships between the step-parent and the child. BTW, I hope M is doing well. I hope she is hanging in there with the step-monster.

I don't like to recommend programs unless parents are dead set in sending their kids away, and are going to do so no matter what. I would rather they work it out from home.

[Anonymous]

CCM girl seems more sensible than most. If she says she had good and positive experiences at some programs then why not believe her. She doesn't seem to have any hidden agenda here. Frankly, I'm not sure why she wastes her time here.

[Deborah]

CCM girl seems more sensible than most. If she says she had good and positive experiences at some programs then why not believe her. She doesn't seem to have any hidden agenda here. Frankly, I'm not sure why she wastes her time here.

There are lessor of evils. Which doesn't = good.
The questions is- would CCM have prefered a program over staying home? Had her parents been willing and dedicated to work things out?

[CCM girl 1989]

My family was so far gone, that unforunately I couldn't have seen staying at home and working it out. But, my situation was pretty unique. My parents were divorced by the time I was 4. My Dad who was much older then I (53 when I was born), remarried shortly after to a woman who was very wicked and mean, and hated me from day 1. My Mother was an alcoholic who lived less then a mile from me and couldn't bear to see me, she always said it was too painful. I think from the time I was 5 to 11 she saw me 3 or 4 times? She wasn't able to come to much of my brothers funeral even. She showed up at the cemetary at the last minute. I'm guessing she was there for 10 minutes? Just in time to see the coffin go into the ground.

Some parents aren't meant to be parents I suppose. I needed to be in some kind of theraputic program. I was a pretty screwed up little girl. What I will never understand is why, if they didn't want me......why did they keep me for so long in these really strict girl schools that didn't allow me to enjoy some of my teenage years? That part, really confused me.....and angered me. It seemed like it was always made to be my fault why I was not going home. It took me a long time to figure out I wasn't ever going to go home because they didn't want me to come home.

The past is the past though. Mom died a few years ago, and my Dad is 86 and I am enjoying what time we have left together. My Step-Mom died 6 years ago allowing our family to get back together. So, it is what it is.

[Deborah]

Was living with relatives not an option?

My point was, would any kid choose a program over living at home, IF their parent(s) were willing to pull their head out, and figure out how to be a parent and have a decent r'ship with them?
Isn't it ever kid's dream to wake up one morning to a real parent?

[Anonymous]

Lots of kids go to sleep every night wishing they'd wake up the next morning to find their parents lying motionless in bed, dead of simultaneous heart attacks.

Similarly a lot of kids in hellholes prefer the sadistic whims of the professional abusers to the sadistic whims of their parents.

Don't you wish I was being sarcastic?

[Anonymous]

Was living with relatives not an option?

My point was, would any kid choose a program over living at home, IF their parent(s) were willing to pull their head out, and figure out how to be a parent and have a decent r'ship with them?
Isn't it ever kid's dream to wake up one morning to a real parent?

The only relative that wanted to take me was my Aunt and Uncle. My Aunt was my Mom's only sister, and they wanted to take me when I was 9 because they could see how I needed a real family. My Dad and Step-Mom wouldn't allow this, I am not sure why? Anyway, after I got sent away at the age of 12 she wrote me at school, and would send me birthday checks that never got cashed. She thought because she never heard from me, that I was fine, and didn't want to talk to her. Which in reality, I needed her more then ever.

Fast forward 4 years when I ran away from Cross Creek Manor, and was living on my own, she somehow tracked me down. I say somehow because I didn't have a phone at the place I was living, we were so poor we used the pay phone out by the community pool, and her and my Dad weren't on speaking terms. Anyway, that's where I received a call from her, and she wanted me to come out for Christmas. I did, and they asked me if I wanted to move in with them, and finish my school. I said yes. It was hard at first. I wasn't used to being in a family that was so loving. I remember the first fight we had, I cried and cried, I asked them if they wanted me to leave? They were like, no silly! As part of a family, you work it out. We did, and they became my Mom and Dad. My cousins became my brother and sisters, and the rest is history!

The only problem that I face now is dividing my time equally between them, and my Father over the holidays. Nice problem to finally have. I went from not being wanted, to being very much wanted.

To answer your question Deborah....yes, I would've rather avoided these programs and gone to live with my Aunt and Uncle. However, it was never told to me until I was living with them at age 17 that they wanted me at age 9 to come live with them. I would've turned out very differently had I been allowed to do so. I am a great person now, but I was very screwed up from everything I went through as a teen. Sometimes, things come back to haunt me. But, I feel that from my life experiences that I do have I am able to relate to kids very well. I have a little of everything in my past, and I wish that I could be there for kids whose parents don't want them.

If I had it my way, I would have some type of group home. My husband, and I don't see eye to eye on that. I want to foster kids, and my husband just wants our own. It's a lot of work, and it changes your life forever. I am understanding of where he stands. I wish I could be those kids family whose parents don't want them. I guess in a way I feel that would be the only positive thing that could come from my whole messy life.

I hope I answered your question Deborah. My parents were not easily fixable. They were shitty parents from day one putting their lives before mine. It's not as if we had a rocky couple months, it was doomed from the very beginning I'm afraid.

[CCM girl 1989]

Duh, that was me!