Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Long-Term Outcome Studies
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---The therapist is licensed and needs to adhere to the HIPPA laws which they do. The counselors and staff who are not licensed do not need to adhere to these (see DJ misread it, the counselors and staff don’t need to be licensed). Aspen education knows this and you just choose to misinterpret the posting.
DJ tried to blur the difference between therapist and counselor, Nice try.
One of the struggles here with posters is differentiating between counselors/staff and therapists. One is licensed by the state and the other doesnt need to be. We all know that but you like to mislead the readers.... we all know that and that is why I am here.
--- End quote ---
Does Aspen differentiate between counselors/staff and therapists when the kid is required to have counseling sessions, therapy et al? Is the kid fully informed prior to any disclosures, as to which conversations are bound by client-patient confidentiality, and which may be freely discussed with any Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes along?
Does Aspen ever disclose this distinction to parents and kids before the checks are signed and handed over? During the kid's stay? Or only after said disclosures have been made public?
Just who is misleading who here?
Inculcated:
DJ’s question is regarding Aspen as an entity, not individuals within that organization.
If Aspen is a treatment provider then they are a covered entity (as in req’d to abide by HIPAA)
If Aspen is not a treatment provider then the study of the “treatment” (they alleged in court to not be providers of while contending in their marketing that they do offer “treatment”) has no validity.
…and do please try to answer Ursus’ direct questions w/out distorting them
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Does Aspen differentiate between counselors/staff and therapists when the kid is required to have counseling sessions, therapy et al? Is the kid fully informed prior to any disclosures, as to which conversations are bound by client-patient confidentiality, and which may be freely discussed with any Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes along?
Does Aspen ever disclose this distinction to parents and kids before the checks are signed and handed over? During the kid's stay? Or only after said disclosures have been made public?
Just who is misleading who here?
--- End quote ---
psy:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Ha,Ha,Ha,... saw the word "consultant" and you closed your mind and ran lol. (I don’t expect to convince any of you guys). Its a good study and it scares the hell out of a lot of people here, I understand that.
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The only thing that's remotely frightening about that "study" is that parents might take it seriously. I'd love to see a peer reviewed, independent, study done on this industry, but sadly, one does not exist to date. Behrens does not qualify because of her associations with apsen which represent blatant conflicts of interest. I just don't understand how any can call that "independent". It's BS, whooter, and you know it. Nobody who knows anything about that study takes it seriously. I bet even Aspen gets a chuckle out of it.
--- Quote ---The industry is changing and it is going to get tougher and tougher to support your case with just pictures of the "Hobbit" and kids being forced to work in the company store at "Straight" from the 1970’s...or a 300lb guy sitting on a kid…… it just aint the same any more. Those days are long gone.
--- End quote ---
And they said that earlier this decade, and the decade before that, and so forth all the way back to the events that took place at the Seed ultimately culminating in congressional hearings on "brainwashing" (thought reform) and so forth. The very terms you ridicule us for using and the very term Greg Kutz used at the GAO hearings. Sure things change a little here and there but the real core of it, what creates the walking talking billboard zombies (program saved me from deadinsane in jail. i'd do anything for the program. anybody who criticizes the program is a druggie in denial, etc...)... that stays the same (only now most programs are smart enough to try and limit the outward appearance of eyez-glazed-over-cultie). Things are getting more refined, yes, but better? Not in my book.
--- Quote ---Everyone here is slowly realizing that the kids are getting the help they need at these places.. there are over 500 programs today and the number of kids who have not benefitted from them are almost nill.
--- End quote ---
You just love to pull numbers out the butt, don't you.
--- Quote ---Psy, I understand there is a ton of room for improvement but we cant deny that kids lives are being immensely effected everyday for the better.
--- End quote ---
I won't deny that's the outward appearance. I would deny much good at all comes of it in the long term. YMMV, but as i've said before, If there are supposedly all these kids who's lives have been "saved by the program" in the long term, why aren't they on Fornits? Why aren't they anywhere? I'd like to speak to one, I really would.
--- Quote ---This is not the last study to be conducted and you can continue to find fault in everyone of them or start to read and understand the direction of the industry and how kids are being helped. Its up to you.
--- End quote ---
If you were in a relationship with an abuser who hit you again and again, only to apologize each and every time and say "i've changed"... just how long would you actually believe it? I've heard the "we're different now" speech far to many times and each and every time it's just superficial window dressing at best.
--- Quote ---You and I both know that you take the worst possible thing that happens in a program and then apply it to all of them.
--- End quote ---
No, I don't, but if a system is set up in a certain way, certain things are bound to happen.
--- Quote ---Not all programs listen to phone calls or censor mail.. has it happened? Sure. But it doesn’t happen everywhere… you are failing yourself by not seeing the shades of gray.. the changes that are occurring.
--- End quote ---
Yeah. now there's some change I can believe in </sarcasm>
--- Quote ---There was a poster earlier who said we should do a study of the effectiveness of calling a kid a slut and a whore and screaming at them because they were raped. Do you really belief that every rape victim is treated this way? It blows my mind that so many of you buy into this belief and hold it up like some religious icon.
--- End quote ---
Maybe because it's happened in so many programs and reflects an underlying philosophy (HPM) that you are always wrong and no matter what happens it's always your fault. Where this philosophy comes from is clear and even Lon Woodbury freely admits that the Human Potential Movement had a large and lasting influence on the industry.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Inculcated" ---DJ’s question is regarding Aspen as an entity, not individuals within that organization.
--- End quote ---
Go back and read his post. It was about a counsellor who wasn’t licensed... DJ made it seem like it was a therapist to mislead the readers here on fornits. The scary thing is that DJ sells himself to be a therapist himself, yet he tries to damage others careers. Nothing like the professionals I am use to dealing with. Just a little weird if you ask me.
I mean we can look up the license of any of the Aspen therapists but we can’t do that for Dysfunction Junction. We just need to take his word for it.
Inculcated:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---Go back and read his post.
--- Quote from: "Inculcated" ---DJ’s question is regarding Aspen as an entity, not individuals within that organization.
--- End quote ---
.
--- End quote ---
The question of his (that I quoted) referred to Aspen not individuals.
I’m following the thread better than you would like people to.
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---The scary thing is that DJ sells himself to be a therapist himself, yet he tries to damage others careers. Nothing like the professionals I am use to dealing with. Just a little weird if you ask me.
--- End quote ---
LOL, I’ll bet that’s truly a "scary" thing for you to consider... considering. I can see how concepts like peer review and ethical accountability might seem “weird” to you.
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---I mean we can look up the license of any of the Aspen therapists but we can’t do that for Dysfunction Junction. We just need to take his word for it.
--- End quote ---
Why not? Well then, since you say “we can” then by all means do so. Do it for me, just this once…for the sake of open discourse.
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