Ha,Ha,Ha,... saw the word "consultant" and you closed your mind and ran lol. (I don’t expect to convince any of you guys). Its a good study and it scares the hell out of a lot of people here, I understand that.
The only thing that's remotely frightening about that "study" is that parents might take it seriously. I'd love to see a peer reviewed, independent, study done on this industry, but sadly, one does not exist to date. Behrens does not qualify because of her associations with apsen which represent blatant conflicts of interest. I just don't understand how any can call that "independent". It's BS, whooter, and you know it. Nobody who knows anything about that study takes it seriously. I bet even Aspen gets a chuckle out of it.
The industry is changing and it is going to get tougher and tougher to support your case with just pictures of the "Hobbit" and kids being forced to work in the company store at "Straight" from the 1970’s...or a 300lb guy sitting on a kid…… it just aint the same any more. Those days are long gone.
And they said that earlier this decade, and the decade before that, and so forth all the way back to the events that took place at the Seed ultimately culminating in congressional hearings on "brainwashing" (thought reform) and so forth. The very terms you ridicule us for using and the very term Greg Kutz used at the GAO hearings. Sure things change a little here and there but the real core of it, what creates the walking talking billboard zombies (program saved me from deadinsane in jail. i'd do anything for the program. anybody who criticizes the program is a druggie in denial, etc...)... that stays the same (only now most programs are smart enough to try and limit the outward appearance of eyez-glazed-over-cultie). Things are getting more refined, yes, but better? Not in my book.
Everyone here is slowly realizing that the kids are getting the help they need at these places.. there are over 500 programs today and the number of kids who have not benefitted from them are almost nill.
You just love to pull numbers out the butt, don't you.
Psy, I understand there is a ton of room for improvement but we cant deny that kids lives are being immensely effected everyday for the better.
I won't deny that's the outward appearance. I would deny much good at all comes of it in the long term. YMMV, but as i've said before, If there are supposedly all these kids who's lives have been "saved by the program" in the long term, why aren't they on Fornits? Why aren't they anywhere? I'd like to speak to one, I really would.
This is not the last study to be conducted and you can continue to find fault in everyone of them or start to read and understand the direction of the industry and how kids are being helped. Its up to you.
If you were in a relationship with an abuser who hit you again and again, only to apologize each and every time and say "i've changed"... just how long would you actually believe it? I've heard the "we're different now" speech far to many times and each and every time it's just superficial window dressing at best.
You and I both know that you take the worst possible thing that happens in a program and then apply it to all of them.
No, I don't, but if a system is set up in a certain way, certain things are bound to happen.
Not all programs listen to phone calls or censor mail.. has it happened? Sure. But it doesn’t happen everywhere… you are failing yourself by not seeing the shades of gray.. the changes that are occurring.
Yeah. now there's some change I can believe in </sarcasm>
There was a poster earlier who said we should do a study of the effectiveness of calling a kid a slut and a whore and screaming at them because they were raped. Do you really belief that every rape victim is treated this way? It blows my mind that so many of you buy into this belief and hold it up like some religious icon.
Maybe because it's happened in so many programs and reflects an underlying philosophy (HPM) that you are always wrong and no matter what happens it's always your fault. Where this philosophy comes from is clear and even Lon Woodbury freely admits that the Human Potential Movement had a large and lasting influence on the industry.
