Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CALO - Change Academy at Lake of the Ozarks

Questions for Calo Students

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CALO Student #17:
Ugh, I've been so damn busy. My GF's been sick and I've also been helping her with some issues with her sis. Anyways, keep the questions coming. They're pretty good.

To Psy:

No, that typically isn't normal, but I knew the girl... and she didn't want to talk to her parents. It wasn't CALO that was keeping them from contact, it was because of the fact that she didn't really want to move forward with her program. (For the record, I'm only speaking on what I personally experienced. Keep in mind, I left CALO a little while back, so I'm not exceptionally sure on all the stuff that has gone on, besides what I hear from my fellow "survivors").

And accountability groups varied greatly, depending on what it's been called for, and who's involved. Typically, it's called by a student (or a couple) in an attempt to "hold another student accountable for their actions". These groups have also been suggested by staff, of course. I've seen accountability groups last less than 3 minutes, and I've also seen some last 3 hours, depending on who's it's been called on and who calls it. Sometimes, the group isn't interested in the subject at all, so they just bullshit through it so that it's over with. Other times, students are seemingly "out for blood" if the group is called on someone that nobody really likes. Personally, I didn't enjoy these groups unless the person actually takes stuff to heart, or else it's just a waste of time... because we end up calling another one for a similar act later.
There aren't many guidelines on how these groups go either, since they're typically led by the students, but moderated by the staff. Sometimes, the group can set up a consequence, depending on what has been done. These consequences are usually agreed upon by the group and the request is sent to the student's therapist to be officialized. These consquences also vary a lot too. They can be restrictions (like not being allowed to have sharp things because they threatened students), or regroup (because they can't handle being with the group), or closeness until the group eels like the student is okay. After about 19:00 or 20:00, we typically don't have accountability groups. This is just so that people don't get too hyped up before bed, so we usually put the subject off until the next day.
I've seen groups get out of hand before, which usually affects the whole group for the rest of the day. Some of these get bad because a student feels like they've been "ratted out" by someone that they thought was their friend. This is always a tough situation because CALO tryies to teach us that "holding people accountable" is one of the only ways that you can help your fellow students. Personally, I've always been a believer of loyalty, so I didn't call many of these... at all. I was the person in the group who knew everything that was going on, but I'd advise the student to be smart about whatever they're doing. I was always behind the scenes telling them that I didn't approve, but it's their decision, and to know what repercussions would come from their choice. By doing this, I helped to limit the number of these groups (on the guy's side, anyways), but since I've left... I'm not really sure. Anyways, like i was saying, these groups sometimes hurt. Sometimes, when the whole group agrees with the grievance, it feels like everyone is ganging up on you, and unfortunately, not everybody seems to realize that. Not even the staff, for some reason.
On that note, I should also say that these groups have gone over very well sometimes. Not all of the short accountability groups were because people didn't care. There's been times when the student, who the group was called on, openly admits to whatever they've done, appologizes, then sometimes even set their own consequence that the group agrees to. This act usually shows how mature the student has become.

To Che:

Like I said earlier, I've been away from CALO for a good bit, so I don't know what Nick is doing right now. He left CALO about a year ago, so either way, it wouldn't suprise me of whatever he's doing. Like i said, I can really only report what i've seen and known from my personal experience. And yes, I guess I missed that hold, but I do remember one that was similar to it. This one involved a student who didn't even throw something in the general direction of people. He just threw something into the woods and a staff member (who i might add, is a bit power hungry to begin with) yelled at him. The student (along with all the other students) thought this sounded stupid.... so he did it again and was thrown down to the ground. There wasn't even anyone over there! That pissed me off... anyways, the staff member's excuse was that "If (student's name) isn't in a spot to be able to listen to my concerns of safety, then I'm not sure what else he'd be willing to do. It's a big safety concern if he is blatantly going against safety".

I promise that I'm gonna try to get back to you guys more often, lol. I don't exactly enjoy having to write full essays every time I sign on, so I'll try to answer questions sooner so that they don't bulk up like this.

psy:

--- Quote from: "CALO Student #17" ---Ugh, I've been so damn busy. My GF's been sick and I've also been helping her with some issues with her sis.Anyways, keep the questions coming. They're pretty good.
--- End quote ---

Thank you. I appreciate your input.


--- Quote ---fellow "survivors"
--- End quote ---

Use the term only if you want and if you feel it fits.


--- Quote ---Personally, I didn't enjoy these groups unless the person actually takes stuff to heart, or else it's just a waste of time... because we end up calling another one for a similar act later.
--- End quote ---

What are the average sorts of offenses to be talked about in these groups?  Do you feel some of these things might have been better handled privately (either staff-student or student-student).  Many other programs have been rather intrusive in the types of things talked about in these types of groups (masturbatory practices, personal hygiene, etc.)...  Just stuff that could cause more shame and reduce somebody's self worth by being brought up in a public forum.

Do you feel that shame was ever used as a method of change?  Do you feel in some individuals this could cause harm, either temporarily or in the longer term?


--- Quote ---or regroup (because they can't handle being with the group)
--- End quote ---

I was told by a certain Calo staff person that kids could opt out of groups if they chose to or if they didn't want to discuss something (however he did not elaborate on whether or not the kids knew they could do this).  It doesn't sound like that's true from what you're saying.


--- Quote ---or closeness until the group eels like the student is okay.
--- End quote ---

So to a certain extent, intimacy is forced?  A student wanting to be left the hell alone would not be allowed to do so?  Was there a term for this, such as "isolating" or some-such?


--- Quote ---After about 19:00 or 20:00, we typically don't have accountability groups. This is just so that people don't get too hyped up before bed, so we usually put the subject off until the next day.
--- End quote ---

You make it sound like these groups are fairly stressful.  How rowdy can they get?  How harsh could a person get in a verbal confrontation before a staff moderator stepped in?


--- Quote ---I've seen groups get out of hand before, which usually affects the whole group for the rest of the day. Some of these get bad because a student feels like they've been "ratted out" by someone that they thought was their friend. This is always a tough situation because CALO tryies to teach us that "holding people accountable" is one of the only ways that you can help your fellow students.
--- End quote ---

Do you feel this got to the point where it was almost as if there was a "secret police"?  I worry about creating an atmosphere where people learn they can't confide in anybody and can't trust in anybody.  It also creates an atmosphere where one comes to believe that the program is all powerful and knows everything.  Often that lasts a lot longer than the stay in the program itself, with people developing "trust issues" as a result.

Are kids rewarded for reporting on others (or should I say "helping" others), either explicitly or implicitly by gaining favor from the staff (or punishing people who don't report)?

Is there a serious effort to teach kids to resolve their own problems with others on their own without resorting to staff or the group?


--- Quote ---Personally, I've always been a believer of loyalty, so I didn't call many of these... at all. I was the person in the group who knew everything that was going on, but I'd advise the student to be smart about whatever they're doing. I was always behind the scenes telling them that I didn't approve, but it's their decision, and to know what repercussions would come from their choice. By doing this, I helped to limit the number of these groups (on the guy's side, anyways), but since I've left... I'm not really sure. Anyways, like i was saying, these groups sometimes hurt. Sometimes, when the whole group agrees with the grievance, it feels like everyone is ganging up on you, and unfortunately, not everybody seems to realize that. Not even the staff, for some reason.
--- End quote ---

I think that's a very common effect with that type of group dynamic, and why I think it has the potential for so much danger.  Eventually a person breaks down, sometimes even confessing to things he/she didn't do, or exaggerating a problem for approval.  Given enough time, a person can come to believe things about themselves that are just not true.  A casual drinker can come to believe himself an alcholic.  A kid who smoked pot with friends can come to be labeled an "addict".  Decisions and judgements that should normally be made by an individual are made by the group, with little actual personal knowledge and an unhealthy dose of prejudice (For example, one person who has a drug problem might deny it, but this can cause others to see anybody who denies having a drug problem as being a liar and "in denial").

Robert Lifton wrote a book on similar group dynamics.  he wrote:

"Closely related to the demand for absolute purity is an obsession with personal confession. Confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. There is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed. Such demands are made possible not only by the ubiquitous human tendencies toward guilt and shame but also by the need to give expression to these tendencies. In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities."

It's important to note that a program can create such a dynamic in ignorance, without intent (though sometimes they see the apparent benefit of such confessions and choose to exploit them to parents or for use in marketing).


--- Quote ---On that note, I should also say that these groups have gone over very well sometimes. Not all of the short accountability groups were because people didn't care. There's been times when the student, who the group was called on, openly admits to whatever they've done, appologizes, then sometimes even set their own consequence that the group agrees to. This act usually shows how mature the student has become.
--- End quote ---

Or that he realizes the futility of defending himself against what can essentially become mob justice. I'm not saying that's what happens at CALO.  I'm saying it very easily can.  Sometimes a person is innocent and has a decent defense, however mobs are rarely willing to listen to reason when they've already come to their judgment.  If an accountability group is really a "we know you did it and you're going to stay here until you admit to it" group, I can't really see the benefit.


--- Quote ---I promise that I'm gonna try to get back to you guys more often, lol. I don't exactly enjoy having to write full essays every time I sign on, so I'll try to answer questions sooner so that they don't bulk up like this.
--- End quote ---

Well.  I appreciate the time you're taking and the thought that has gone into your responses.

psy:
You also mentioned in another thread that each student had to write a list including:

--- Quote from: "CALO Student #17" ---4. Reasons for being here

--- End quote ---
Is "parents overreacted" ever a valid option that is accepted by the program?  Would a person holding to that opinion ever be allowed to leave?  What I'm getting at is to whether a person is allowed to make their own judgments about the gravity of their behavior or whether the program will apply pressure until they admit they have a problem (even if they don't feel that is so, and may not be so)?

I realize that there's that phrase about all inmates in prison claiming to be "innocent" but in some cases it might be true, and a prison does not try to coerce a person into admitting guilt.  Furthermore, as far as I understand it there is little or no due process involved sending a kid to a program.  The guilt/innocence is determined not by a jury of peers but by the program itself and/or a physician who is only human and can have biases and can makes mistakes.

CALO Student #17:
To Psy:

Well, it's hard to say what an "average" offense would be in these groups, because they're called on a case-by-case basis. On a regular day, there are plenty of things that a group can be called on. It can range anywhere from stealing food, communicating with the opposite sex, not be hygenic (excessively), openly pushing homosexuality onto straight students, taking anger out on a bunch of students, or whatever else. Like I said before, I've always been someone who believes that a person is more willing to listen and be helped when the advice is coming from someone that they can trust. I had a good relationship with all of the students (mostly on my side of the building, obviously) and I found that it was more effective for them if we had one-on-one talks regularly. I've never agreed with the idea that a student will learn better if all of his/her peers "hold them accountable". And yes, sometimes the issues are rather personal and the staff and therapists usually urge the student to be "open" (?) and not hide things from the group. Yeah, effing right. Everytime I've seen theese kinds of issues discussed, the student shrinks away and is very uncomfortable with talking to anybody for a few days. And yes, shame wasn't the direct intentions, but I saw that it was an outcome from these talks (which sometimes, did work, and other times, only offend and hurt the student). It wasn't usually stated like "you should be ashamed of yourself" or "how can you live with yourself", but it was rather... implied in their methods. By the book, the staff are to say that they are not aiming for shame. They teach that we shoulod not feel shame and regret, but rather, remorse. The difference is that shame is the thought process of "I've a terrible person", and remorse is the thought process of "I did something bad, but I can learn to be better now". Well, this make sense in theory, but in practice... it didn't always work out, obviously. This is real life, which does not always go by the book, or straight from a system.

That staff member is correct. There was a student in particular who did this a LOT. Students were definately urged to talk about whatever is going on, but the student's famous phrase was "fuck you guys, I'm going to regroup", which always meant "I'm not gonna talk about what's wrong, so I'm gonna go off by myself". When you got out of regroup, it wasn't manditory to process afterwards, so this was an easy way out if you didn't want to share. Of course, this was only temporary, because if you don't choose to process, then "that's not saying anything good about your program". And correct, this was generally labeled as "isolating".

It wasn't rare for these accountability groups to take a large toll on the students. Emotions sometimes flare on touchy subjects, or worse... subjects that affect the whole group. Sometimes, the actions of one or a few students can result in a loss in privilages for the entire group. Obviously, this doesn't go over too well, so it can get the guys/girls in some bad mojo. If emotions run too high, then staff will usually stop it, but like I said before... if they didn't favor the student, then sometimes, they wouldn't care if the student was puking from crying so damn much. But also like I said before, these were only worse case scenerios, because this wasn't always what happens.

Students were very much urged to report other students in an "accountable manner". Not always the case, but that was the basic idea. If a student were to hold another one accountable, then it means that they are mature and have moved forward in their program. Students who keep secrets for their friends were labeled as not being a "true friend" because they aren't trying to "truely help their friends in the most positive way possible". The staff generally try to portray this in a manner of "if your friend has a drug addiction, the only way to be a true friend, is to get them help like a rehab center". Well, this is true... but if it's for something that big, you know? If your friend shoplifts, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the cops on them... maybe tell them that it wasn't smart, but definately not get them arrested. I always thought that was stupid. That's why I was the person that a lot of the guys (and some girls) went to when they didn't know what else to do. I didn't confinde into too many people, but they weren't usually trustworthy enough of that. Since the students had the mindset of "if you hold your teammates accountable, then you're farther in your program" (which means that you leave sooner), I didn't tell them my stuff... I just listened to theirs and held my mouh shut to staff. This was general knowledge among the students, lol.

As for the "resons for being here", nobody really criticized what your answer was. Sometimes the students would snicker amongs themselves saying things like "oh, that'll change"... because typically, it did. The program would come around to convincing you that you can always improve... which typically, is true, and I can understand that. But not the the extent that they try to stretch it. They teach that no matter what has gone on in your life, it could have been different if you had empathy and humility. If you thought otherwise and felt that you're fine the way you are, then you're "in denial and rationalizing your actions".  It makes sense though... if you maximize a student's faults, then the parents would be more willing to keep the student there... resulting in more money for CALO. But I guess that's just how it goes, lol.

Ursus:

--- Quote from: "CALO Student #17" ---Students were very much urged to report other students in an "accountable manner". Not always the case, but that was the basic idea. If a student were to hold another one accountable, then it means that they are mature and have moved forward in their program. Students who keep secrets for their friends were labeled as not being a "true friend" because they aren't trying to "truely help their friends in the most positive way possible". The staff generally try to portray this in a manner of "if your friend has a drug addiction, the only way to be a true friend, is to get them help like a rehab center". Well, this is true... but if it's for something that big, you know? If your friend shoplifts, then I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the cops on them... maybe tell them that it wasn't smart, but definately not get them arrested. I always thought that was stupid. That's why I was the person that a lot of the guys (and some girls) went to when they didn't know what else to do. I didn't confinde into too many people, but they weren't usually trustworthy enough of that. Since the students had the mindset of "if you hold your teammates accountable, then you're farther in your program" (which means that you leave sooner), I didn't tell them my stuff... I just listened to theirs and held my mouh shut to staff. This was general knowledge among the students, lol.
--- End quote ---
Lol. Hyde calls this "Brother's Keeper." Same shit, different brand name on the wrapper.

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