Another death last week at an Aspen program

[Ursus]

SageWalk's founder and previous owner says that Aspen has been neglegent and reckless with the program since they took it over. He states safety controls and proper personnel were cut.

ASPEN kills children.

How convenient, and how easy it is for him to say that now, eh? Or it could be that he just was lucky back then...

That blog entry containing material from an interview with SageWalk founder Brett Merle was also posted in another thread, namely, Mind Control as Therapy in Programs. There's a fair amount of material pertaining specifically to Brett Merle following that post.

I'd especially like to know just how SAFE it is, psychologically speaking, for folks to have someone from a program background practicing neuro-linguistic programming on them, and who may or may not even be certified, hmm?

[Anonymous]

Brett Merle runs a teen escort business and used to be in a program.  Not a good guy at all.  He has the look of a sheep killing dog.  Merle's background is all program, from his RTC to the Army.   He sounds like a mercenary wannabe reduced to kidnapping kids.

http://www.jastransportservices.com/Brett_Merle.htm

Brett Merle

Brett Merle has a fairly unique perspective in transporting, transitioning and interventions. He was transported to a wilderness program at the age of 16. He went on to become a United States Army Airborne Ranger, earning a bronze star and purple heart while in combat in 1989. After his term of service, brett went to work for wilderness programs, residential programs, crisis residential, culminating in him founding his own wilderness program in 1997. Although he sold his wilderness program in 2002, it is still in operation today. Brett has been in the youth help industry and been transporting kids since 1994. He holds a first degree black belt in kenpo juijitsu, is a PCS (positive control systems) non violent verbal/ physical intervention instructor, has his current cpr/ first aid card and is registered with the California trustline to legally be able to transport to/ from/ within the state of California.

[Whooter]

SageWalk's founder and previous owner says that Aspen has been neglegent and reckless with the program since they took it over. He states safety controls and proper personnel were cut.

ASPEN kills children.

How convenient, and how easy it is for him to say that now, eh? Or it could be that he just was lucky back then...

That blog entry containing material from an interview with SageWalk founder Brett Merle was also posted in another thread, namely, Mind Control as Therapy in Programs. There's a fair amount of material pertaining specifically to Brett Merle following that post.

I'd especially like to know just how SAFE it is, psychologically speaking, for folks to have someone from a program background practicing neuro-linguistic programming on them, and who may or may not even be certified, hmm?

I didnt find where the article talked about Sagewalk at all.  It never uses the words reckless or neglegent.  Did someone provide the wrong link?  I would like to read about what Sagewalks founder said.

[Troll Control]

yeah, it's there.  he said aspen removed all of the safety controls and hired people with no life-saving skills or therapy qualifications and ruined the nice business he built.  go back and read it again.

[Whooter]

yeah, it's there.  he said aspen removed all of the safety controls and hired people with no life-saving skills or therapy qualifications and ruined the nice business he built.  go back and read it again.

I think as a minimum we can say the program owners have gained a bit of credibility here on fornits, at least some of them.  I remember back a few years when I posted here that no one would believe what program staff or owners had to say about their programs successes, even if they provided testimony.  So this is a big step.

[Troll Control]

I believe that Aspen took away all safety controls from Sagewalk, leading directly to the deaths of two or more children.  Did the owners state that?  If so, good for them for finally coming clean that they are unsafe and damaging.  Good job, owners!

[Whooter]

yeah, it's there.  he said aspen removed all of the safety controls and hired people with no life-saving skills or therapy qualifications and ruined the nice business he built.  go back and read it again.

I think as a minimum we can say the program owners have gained a bit of credibility here on fornits, at least some of them.  I remember back a few years when I posted here that no one would believe what program staff or owners had to say about their programs successes, even if they provided testimony.  So this is a big step.

Well, the owners have become more open about the programs.  Its not like the old days of straight and kids.  I dont trust them entirely but you have to admit that being able to walk in off the street unannounced and see your child or walk around the facility by yourself is a big step towards transparency.
I, myself believe that SageWalk was safer in the beginning, like the founder and previous poster said.  Its just a matter of getting back to that and then the program will be back on track.

[Troll Control]

^^That^^  is laughable.  Especially coming from Whooter, the man who has been vehement for years about how you "can't just walk in unannounced and walk around the facility.  It's disruptive to the program.  No business would allow that!"

Everyone knows that these facilities do not allow visitors without an appointment.  Everyone also knows that SageWalk became even more unsafe and even more ineffective when Aspen took over.  Several dead kids prove that indelible fact.  To spin bad controls, untrained staff and child deaths as "success" is idiotic on its face, Whooter.

[Whooter]

yeah, it's there.  he said aspen removed all of the safety controls and hired people with no life-saving skills or therapy qualifications and ruined the nice business he built.  go back and read it again.

I think as a minimum we can say the program owners have gained a bit of credibility here on fornits, at least some of them.  I remember back a few years when I posted here that no one would believe what program staff or owners had to say about their programs successes, even if they provided testimony.  So this is a big step.

Well, the owners have become more open about the programs.  Its not like the old days of straight and kids.  I dont trust them entirely but you have to admit that being able to walk in off the street unannounced and see your child or walk around the facility by yourself is a big step towards transparency.
I, myself believe that SageWalk was safer in the beginning, like the founder and previous poster said.  Its just a matter of getting back to that and then the program will be back on track.

You also left out that the founder of SageWalk recommends programs as a great choice for at-risk kids.  I think that we can all agree to disagree, but anyway you look at it the programs voices are becoming more influential here on fornits.  Its good to see we are finally disecting and utilizing the programs perspective here, albeit a tad, it is a start.

[Troll Control]

So, if you are to use SageWalk's founder as a model of "truth-telling" you must then heed his warning that SageWalk is no longer safe for kids, as Aspen took away all of the safety controls and hired uneducated, unlicensed, non-CPR certified employees to work there.  Maybe it was good for kids when he was there, but now he says it is dangerous for kids.  You can't pick and choose which piece to believe!

It also hurts your argument that SageWalk is safe that they just killed a kid a few weeks ago.  Doesn't seem very "safe" to me or to the founder who is rightly concerned that there are no safety controls or qualified people at SageWalk.

[Whooter]

So, if you are to use SageWalk's founder as a model of "truth-telling" you must then heed his warning that SageWalk is no longer safe for kids, as Aspen took away all of the safety controls and hired uneducated, unlicensed, non-CPR certified employees to work there.  Maybe it was good for kids when he was there, but now he says it is dangerous for kids.You can't pick and choose which piece to believe!
It also hurts your argument that SageWalk is safe that they just killed a kid a few weeks ago.  Doesn't seem very "safe" to me or to the founder who is rightly concerned that there are no safety controls or qualified people at SageWalk.

Exactly my point!  So we need to rely on what the kids and parents have to say about the programs they attended.  Lets listen at the source from people who have experienced programs today.  We are going to hear bad stories and good ones.  The parents job is to gather as much info as possible and weigh that ageinst present conditions.

[Troll Control]

No, my point was specific to SageWalk's founder who admits it's now a dangerous and unsafe place for kids due to Aspen's handling of the business.

And anecdotal evidence from parents and kids doesn't mean anything, scientifically or legally speaking.  Scientifically we would require a clinical trial of Aspens methods using a control group and an experimental group in a double-blind setup combined with a long-term follow -up of both groups.  This is the only way to assess efficacy, period.  There is no other method.  To date, Aspen has refused to allow any clinical research.

Secondly, anecdotes can be true, false, or somewhere in the middle, depending on perspective.  Therefore, we must rely on the fact-finding of the agency charged with overseeing MBA.  It's report indicated wholesale, widespread abuse and neglect along with sexual humiliation of students.  An objective, factual report is believable and passes the evidentiary tests that anecdotes simply cannot.

I'm sorry to have to keep reminding you, "Guest" about what facts are and what opinions are, but you seem unable to grasp the difference.  Stories of parents and children = opinion.  State report of abuse, neglect and sexual humiliation = fact.  I hope you now understand the difference between objective facts and subjective opinions.

[Troll Control]

Great post above.  Keep the focus.  Kids are dying on a regular basis at Aspen programs.  This documented fact cannot be avoided.

[Whooter]

Good discussion.  So we can conclude that in the absence of studies we need to rely on those who have progressed thru the system.  With an estimated 500 programs running today and lets say, to be conservative, 100 kids graduate a year (per program), then we are seeing 50,000 kids benefitting from these places and a handful who are harmed (1 per year? Maybe).

We see public school teachers raping their students but the ones benefitting from public education far outweighs those who are harmed and therefore we keep the public system going and don’t move to shut them down.

[Troll Control]

No, we don't agree on anything at all.  With no studies to validate your claims we must conclude that the programs are ineffective until proven otherwise.  It's called "the scientific method" and you should learn about it.  

Anecdotes from kids and parents do not in any way create validity of efficacy claims.  In fact, the state of Oregon has documented the exact opposite: the very model of the programs is abusive.  And it also substantiated claims of abuse and neglect, I believe nine cases in the past year from a single facility, including the sexualized humiliation of minor females forced to simulate oral sex on minor boys for "therapy."  

No, we all can agree that the state of Oregon found out the truth about Aspen.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle, Whooter.