Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > News Items
Boy dies at Sagewalk
TheWho:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
What is a troll?
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
--- End quote ---
So on this forum we should refrain from anything controversial or inflammatory? So you want everyone to agree with each other and treat each other nicely. Does this sound like fornits? or the way you would like it to be?
If you visited a forum like strugglingteens had would you engage in proprogram conversations? or would you post anti-program posts (which would be considered controversial)?
Something to think about.
I would also like to mention that we were all talking about the death of a child until you posted this troll comment intended to derail the thread. So if you are done trolling we should get back on topic.
Oscar:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "Oscar" ---Wiki Sagewalk datasheet and victim page are updated
--- End quote ---
so there is no criteria for a child to be added to the victims list? Just dying on the premises? or can they get added if they die when they get home too?
--- End quote ---
The boy is dead. The criteria for a police investigation is met, the criteria for the suspension of the use of BLM land is met and the criteria for a placement on the victim list is met.
We don't lie. It states that there is an investigation ongoing. When the real cause of his death is made public, we will print it.
They can get added when they return home too, but then in another category. The successrate used by their marketing firms not correct.
TheWho:
--- Quote from: "Oscar" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "Oscar" ---Wiki Sagewalk datasheet and victim page are updated
--- End quote ---
so there is no criteria for a child to be added to the victims list? Just dying on the premises? or can they get added if they die when they get home too?
--- End quote ---
The boy is dead. The criteria for a police investigation is met, the criteria for the suspension of the use of BLM land is met and the criteria for a placement on the victim list is met.
We don't lie. It states that there is an investigation ongoing. When the real cause of his death is made public, we will print it.
They can get added when they return home too, but then in another category. The successrate used by their marketing firms not correct.
--- End quote ---
Oscar, I wasn’t insinuating that you are lying. I just wanted to understand the criteria for getting placed on the list and I got the answer, thank you. For clarity: If a child slipped and fell and hit their head (died) or had a preexisting condition that went undetected by the doctors and died or was just bludgeoned to death by a psychotic staff member or left the program early and died of an overdose or car accident they all fit into the same category and get placed on the victims list.
As a parent I would be interested (and be helpful) in knowing how many kids died due to negligence by the school so that I could determine the risk of sending them. Kids that die in a car accidents or from a pre-existing condition, choking on a French fry at home or slip and hit their head on a rock could happen anywhere and are independent from any program model or design and therefore outside their realm of a programs control.
If I were targeting parents with the list I would categorize them differently that’s all.
Oscar:
The case about the boy who died at the boot camp in Florida explains why we have difficulties with categorizing the children who dies during a program.
The program is often a major employer in a remote area, so there are some concerns about loosing jobs. We know that something was wrong with the first autopsy reports in this high profile case which led to a second autopsy which again showed the real cause of death. But would there have been a second autopsy if the beating hadn't been caught on video?
Most kids on the victims list did not get a second autopsy made by people far away from the area depended of the income of the program. We cannot be sure if the cause of death stated in the papers are the correct one.
That why we have hesitated arrange them by category. However suicide and restraints seem to cover most of the cases. Undetected birth defects or perhaps examinations of poor quality counts for some.
We would very much like to improve the quality of the victim list but the data we are provided from the media and families has problems as stated above.
psy:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---He actually has a good point. Wouldnt you want to wait to find out what the cause of death was before adding him to a victims list? I think that is a valid question?
--- End quote ---
Sure it's possible he had some undiagnosed heart condition or something, but given the way so many other kids have died in wilderness programs i'd me more inclined to attribute it (as a guess) to neglect or abuse.
Oscar did also raise some valid concerns about the autopsy. If I were the parents I would request a second one (I doubt they will, however). Haven't there been a few documented instances of "negligence" or outright foul play at various coroners in relation program deaths? One case having to do with a spider bite if I remember correctly.
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