My son at Aspen Ranch

[Anonymous]

99% chance you’re a troll,NIGEL, but, god help us, there really are people as gross as you.

You “had him escorted”? You mean you had him kidnapped, you evil Joseph fritzl. He says he knows he was messed up? Uh, yeah, victims say all sorts of crap they feel will please their captors in effort to save themselves.

Elizabeth Smart said she was Brian David Mitchell’s wedded wife:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90754&page=1
"I know you think I'm Elizabeth Smart, but I'm not".

 He denies physical abuse? Ain’t kidnapping someone physical abuse? Yeah, it is--its illegal in fact! http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_re ... m01037.htm
But doing evil, seemingly socially accepted things to a kid can sure confuse them about what qualifies as physical abuse, kidnapping or reality. You, you have no excuse. You are simply a morally deranged gargoyle.

[TheWho]

99% chance you’re a troll,NIGEL, but, god help us, there really are people as gross as you.

You “had him escorted”? You mean you had him kidnapped, you evil Joseph fritzl. He says he knows he was messed up? Uh, yeah, victims say all sorts of crap they feel will please their captors in effort to save themselves.

Elizabeth Smart said she was Brian David Mitchell’s wedded wife:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90754&page=1
"I know you think I'm Elizabeth Smart, but I'm not".

 He denies physical abuse? Ain’t kidnapping someone physical abuse? Yeah, it is--its illegal in fact! http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_re ... m01037.htm
But doing evil, seemingly socially accepted things to a kid can sure confuse them about what qualifies as physical abuse, kidnapping or reality. You, you have no excuse. You are simply a morally deranged gargoyle.

Ha,Ha,Ha,  Sorry, Nigel, dont take it too seriously.  The longer you ignore the pleas to remove your son the more you will be compared to the Nazis.  The Elizabeth Smart reference is a new twist.  There are a few fringe elements who post here so dont let them chase you off.

Hang in there........  you are definitely getting all sides here!!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the heads-up on the who.  I searched his posts and found that all those things are things he said, but he seemsw to change his story a lot and pretend to be all different people.  I definitely wouldn't trust anything he says.  He just lies too much.

True.  Nigel, just look at the thread 'TheWho' and you'll see this is true.  I'd also suggest you pull up his username and display all of his posts.  The lies and contradictions are evident after reading just a few posts.

[psy]

My biggest concern now is knowing when it is right to bring him home.  He wants to come home asap.  I want to bring him home when I know he is ready (there is no easy way to make sure you are doing it at the right time).  I will continue to evaluate.

Well.  Be aware that "your child is making much progress but he still needs more time and isn't ready yet" (sort of like a pizza) is a common theme with programs.  My guess is that if you took him home right how he would probably behave himself, especially if you got him therapy to help him both deal with his original issues and any the program may have caused.

I am thankful that there is a forum where I can hear both sides.

Well.  That's the point of this forum.  Sometimes it can get crazy since it's unmoderated, but it's better than having to trust a moderator who can covertly change your words or delete your posts entirely and ban you just to suppress a dissenting view (and I've seen this happen on other forums dealing with this issue...  of which the only ones left are private).

I don't believe everything I read, but I am open minded

A wise policy.

[psy]

Nigel, just look at the thread 'TheWho' and you'll see this is true.  I'd also suggest you pull up his username and display all of his posts.  The lies and contradictions are evident after reading just a few posts.

Actually, it takes a sharp eye and several pages to really spot it.  He's good at what he does.  There's no question about that.  I would suggest to Nigel to look not just at both sides but also at the possible underlying motivations for what is said by each poster.  Motivations reveal a lot.

[psy]

But if the child returns home too early then it could all fall apart fairly quickly.

As I said.  Look at motivations for what is said.  My parents were told this as well (he needs more time (more money) etc..).  I was taken out early and did fine.  Better than fine.  I excelled where they said I would fail.  I was scared to talk to my parents about the program early on, though.  The program insisted we not talk about my experiences there.  Based on how fragile our relationship was at the time I didn't dare break that silence.  I didn't think they would believe me if I told them anyway.  I also didn't realize how much the program had affected me at the time.  Long story.

[TheWho]

Just my thoughts:

As an observer of sorts and reader here on fornits one thing I find interesting is the posters that are admittedly anti-program seem to always be the ones to try to discredit the people who come here and have positive things to say about their experience or the experience of their son and daughter.  You almost never see a parent or child who had a positive experience try to degrade, attack or discredit another poster here that they disagree with.  Posters with positive experiences with programs  seem to be more open minded to people having good and bad experiences and listening to and accepting both points of view without prejudice.  Fornits is definitely heavily onesided towards not supporting sending kids to any type of program.  So why would they be the ones to resort to unfair or deceptive posting?  I would think it would be the other way around since the pro-program posters have less of a foot hold here.  If you truly believe in what you are posting why not rely on those believes and let them stand on their own?

[Troll Control]

0/10.  Epic fail.  ^^TheWho^^ now posting as "guest21".  Not even close to convincing.  You're so easy to spot that it's comical.  If only you could break your habits, you might pass yourself off as some other 'interested party' but you're just too dumb to realize your own signatures.

Nigel, listen to Psy.  He actually knows who TheWho is and what he does for a living (program pimp) but for some crazy reason he won't just come out and say it.  If the roles were reversed, TheWho would be trying to ruin Psy personally and professionally, but for some weird reason Psy won't blow the whistle on this idiot.   :wall:

[Troll Control]

Hey Nigel,

I just want to fill in a few facts that the poster (known as TheWho) is leaving out of his 'story' he's telling you.

1.  He never had a child at Aspen Ranch.  Never.  So he's trying to lead you to belive he did, but he didn't.  He's known here as a liar.

2.  He claims his daughter went 'back to the books' but she actually dropped out of school as soon as she couls when she got home.

3.  He claims she 'blossomed like a flower' but she actually went directly back to hardcore drug and alcohol abuse within a few days of coming home.

4.  He claims her program helped reunite his family, but his daughter actually estranged herself from him as soon as she came home.

5.  He claims she's now successful, but she's a marginally employed highschool dropout living with a drug addict boyfriend out of wedlock.

Just thought you should know the truth about the guy advising you and what he claims is 'success.'  You should also know he runs a feeder referral service for AEG.  

Cheers,
Longtime Poster with Knowledge about TheWho

Hey Nigel, ask him these questions directly and watch him wiggle and squirm.  He desperately wants to spin his story above into "program was successful and daughter is mature and doing great" but sadly, the facts show exactly the above, not his la-la land marketing, get-in-your-pocket spin.  Do it and see what he says.   :tup:

[psy]

Nigel, listen to Psy.  He actually knows who TheWho is and what he does for a living (program pimp) but for some crazy reason he won't just come out and say it.  If the roles were reversed, TheWho would be trying to ruin Psy personally and professionally, but for some weird reason Psy won't blow the whistle on this idiot.   :wall:

It's part of the job working as an admin at Fornits.  Even though I might like to "out" him and his antics, it would set a bad precedent and this forum would cease to be the free place it is.  The forum can't take sides in a discussion, just as surely as a piece of paper can't erase what's written on it.

[TheWho]

0/10.  Epic fail.  ^^TheWho^^ now posting as "guest21".  Not even close to convincing.  You're so easy to spot that it's comical.  If only you could break your habits, you might pass yourself off as some other 'interested party' but you're just too dumb to realize your own signatures.

Nigel, listen to Psy.  He actually knows who TheWho is and what he does for a living (program pimp) but for some crazy reason he won't just come out and say it.  If the roles were reversed, TheWho would be trying to ruin Psy personally and professionally, but for some weird reason Psy won't blow the whistle on this idiot.   :wall:

No you are wrong.  I am actually guest21 and you just proved my point.  Why cant you let people post what they feel?  Why do you have this need to control everyone?  You are posting without a user name so how do we know if you are telling the truth or not?  Who cares if you think one poster is lying or another is.  Wouldn’t you be more interested in who is calling Nigel a Nazi and trying to discredit him?  Or maybe that was you who posted that and are upset that it didn’t go well and made you look foolish.  Let people post openly, allow the process of “open forum” to work.  Nigel is getting feedback from both sides and that is whats important.

[Troll Control]

0/10.  Epic fail.  ^^TheWho^^ now posting as "guest21".  Not even close to convincing.  You're so easy to spot that it's comical.  If only you could break your habits, you might pass yourself off as some other 'interested party' but you're just too dumb to realize your own signatures.

Nigel, listen to Psy.  He actually knows who TheWho is and what he does for a living (program pimp) but for some crazy reason he won't just come out and say it.  If the roles were reversed, TheWho would be trying to ruin Psy personally and professionally, but for some weird reason Psy won't blow the whistle on this idiot.   :wall:

No you are wrong.  I am actually guest21 and you just proved my point.  Why cant you let people post what they feel?  Why do you have this need to control everyone?  You are posting without a user name so how do we know if you are telling the truth or not?  Who cares if you think one poster is lying or another is.  Wouldn’t you be more interested in who is calling Nigel a Nazi and trying to discredit him?  Or maybe that was you who posted that and are upset that it didn’t go well and made you look foolish.  Let people post openly, allow the process of “open forum” to work.  Nigel is getting feedback from both sides and that is whats important.

minus 0/10 this time, who boy.

psy, you are not fornits.  nobody is.  nobody would care one iota if you just said the guy's name.  he's killing kids by proxy, brother.  that carries weight.  you shouldn't let him do it here.  don't take this as an attack, either, psy.  i have a lot of respect for you.  but, we always say "nobody is fornits, nobody represents fornits" etc.  you could just post anon and let this fucker get what's coming and nobody would come after you or fornits for it, that i can guarantee.

[Anonymous]

Psy already tried to out TheWho and got it wrong. Nobody here knows who TheWho really is, other than guessing. An IP address only tells you what city they are in, provided that's even accurate. Face it, there's nothing anybody can do about TheWho troll.

[psy]

psy, you are not fornits.  nobody is.  nobody would care one iota if you just said the guy's name.  he's killing kids by proxy, brother.  that carries weight.  you shouldn't let him do it here.  don't take this as an attack, either, psy.  i have a lot of respect for you.  but, we always say "nobody is fornits, nobody represents fornits" etc.  you could just post anon and let this fucker get what's coming and nobody would come after you or fornits for it, that i can guarantee.

If you're implying I know TheWho's actual real life identity, I don't.  Even if I did and I released it (which I wouldn't anyway in my position), how could anybody stop him from speaking here?

[Troll Control]

nobody said he should be silenced.  i just want to see all of his efforts here tied to his real identity so all of his friends (if he has any), his family (the ones who haven't been killed by AEG) and his colleagues can see what a really sick and deranged guy he is.  

if he was one bit proud of anything he has ever done here, he'd be telling people about it.  but he doesn't.  he hides what he does here because he's embarrassed of it.  "hang on guys, i'll be right back to watch the game.  ha, ha, ha i gotta go argue for a few hours with a 15 year old kid who was raped and tell her how it's all her fault for dressing like a slut and drinking ha, ha, ha." i would be embarrassed too if i was a shitbag liar using fear to make money from shiftless and stupid parents and told my kid's dirty business to thousands of strangers on the internet.  

he doesn't want his wife to know that he gets up in the middle of the night to feed his obsession here or that when he's supposed to be working he posts for 5 or 6 hours every day.  if anyone else knew what he was doing here his tiny little life would collapse on him.  

what would you think if you were his wife and you found what he does here, read it all and came to realize you're married to a complete liar with a whole second life you didn't know about or how he gets almost sexual gratification by degrading already horribly abused kids.  no, you can bet he keeps this all a secret.  i'd like to see his wife and kid find his work here.  he's a scumbag.