Author Topic: My son at Aspen Ranch  (Read 70615 times)

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Offline Pile of shit

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #555 on: July 15, 2010, 01:31:33 PM »
Anne provide legitimate proof of you claims all ASPEN programs don't provide such services.  I don't think this is true because you're trying to muddy the waters.  It's time to move along woman.  WOW!!!
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #556 on: July 15, 2010, 01:35:11 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of shit"
Anne provide legitimate proof of you claims all ASPEN programs don't provide such services.  I don't think this is true because you're trying to muddy the waters.  It's time to move along woman.  WOW!!!


They said it it court.  Look it up, lazy ass.
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Offline Pile of shit

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #557 on: July 15, 2010, 01:41:40 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Pile of shit"
Anne provide legitimate proof of you claims all ASPEN programs don't provide such services.  I don't think this is true because you're trying to muddy the waters.  It's time to move along woman.  WOW!!!


They said it it court.  Look it up, lazy ass.

You cannot provide a link or proof.  I think that proves my theory you're trying to muddy the waters Anne.  Move on woman!.  WOW!!!   :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #558 on: July 15, 2010, 01:51:14 PM »
Quote from: "Pile of shit"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Pile of shit"
Anne provide legitimate proof of you claims all ASPEN programs don't provide such services.  I don't think this is true because you're trying to muddy the waters.  It's time to move along woman.  WOW!!!


They said it it court.  Look it up, lazy ass.

You cannot provide a link or proof.  I think that proves my theory you're trying to muddy the waters Anne.  Move on woman!.  WOW!!!   :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

If I recall correctly they were referring to one child.  His parents didnt opt for the individual therapy (which is extra) which is provided by an outside source typically, depending on the program.  They wont provide a link because it doesnt say Aspen as a whole doesnt provide therapy.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #559 on: July 15, 2010, 02:31:29 PM »
[quote author="Aspen Education Group lawyers..AEG not mental health program. never promised to be. none of our employees are medical personel, we are free to turn the details of confessions we mandate over to the police."]Aspen Education Group does not provide a therapeutic milieu that is conformative to  standards set by any medical body for their "patients," medically recognized therapy, or medically accredited personnel, Aspen's own lawyers successfully argued in Pence v. Aspen Education Group.
http://www.websupp.org/data/DOR/6:05-cv ... 80-DOR.pdf

Aspen education group turned the details of one of the confessions it mandates from its "patients" over to the police.

The "patient" had confessed he had peeped into the girls dorm, after climbing onto a roof.

The "patient's" parents sued over Aspens failure to provide a clinically valid therapeutic milieu, for failing to conform to clinical, medical standards, for violating the confidentiality of the patient/ therapist relationship, and for subjecting their "patient" to "therapy" from a group of people who were not licensed therapists or medical personnel.


Aspen Education Group's defense was that, yes, they failed to provide therapy that conforms to standards of medicine, but that was OK because they ONLY agreed to provide...

Quote from: "Aspen Education Group"
"group and individual counseling as dictated by
PROGRAM design
......NorthStar did not promise to do the things that plaintiffs
complain they failed to do, such as provide counseling by a
LICENSED counselor,2"

Aspen education Group argued that confessions the "patient" was expected to make was NOT part  of a therapeutic treatment program, and that  NorthStar was NOT a drug and alcohol or mental health therapy program.

Aspen Education Group argued largely SUCCESSFULLY that because their "patient's" therapist was unlicensed and semi-successfully that because their employees were not actual medical personnel, HiPPA statues did not apply to them.

Quote from: "Pence v Aspen Education Group"
"Because she is not a licensed counselor and there is no evidence she is an employee of a licensed counselor, Harless is not subject to confidentiality laws applicable to licensed counselors and their employees."

Quote from: "Pence v Aspen Education Group"
"There is insufficient evidence to conclude that there are no disputed issues of fact as to whether information conveyed by Harless to police was protected health information within the meaning of HIPAA, and whether NorthStar is a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA."
[/quote]

In this case Aspen Education Group, the parent company of all Aspen programs, admitted in court that they do not provide therapy.  In fact, their defense to violation of patient rights is that they have no patients because they provide no therapy.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #560 on: July 15, 2010, 02:52:37 PM »
Quote from: "Aspen Education Group"
"group and individual counseling as dictated by
PROGRAM design
......NorthStar did not promise to do the things that plaintiffs
complain they failed to do, such as provide counseling by a
LICENSED counselor,2"

My Daughter attended an Aspen School ASR, and she saw an independent, licensed therapist.  But the individual therapy was paid for directly to the therapist.  This was an option that parents can get for their child if they want to.  So basically some kids get the one on one therapy and others do not, they get the group therapy.

I do understand the confusion with those who have never been through it before.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #561 on: July 15, 2010, 03:00:05 PM »
So, just to be clear, Aspen Education Group provides no therapy whatsoever, as they admitted in court.

Parents pay separately for therapy if they want to, but the systematic program abuse is covered  by Aspen's fee schedule.

Just an interesting tidbit:  ASR, The Academy at Swift River (which has also been charged with abusing children) is the "sister school" of Mount Bachelor Academy (another Aspen Education program) which was recently shut down by authorities who reported in their official investigation that all children at Aspen were abused.  All of Aspen's facilities run the same abusive program.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #562 on: July 15, 2010, 04:45:19 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
So, just to be clear, Aspen Education Group provides no therapy whatsoever, as they admitted in court.

Parents pay separately for therapy if they want to, but the systematic program abuse is covered  by Aspen's fee schedule.

Just an interesting tidbit:  ASR, The Academy at Swift River (which has also been charged with abusing children) is the "sister school" of Mount Bachelor Academy (another Aspen Education program) which was recently shut down by authorities who reported in their official investigation that all children at Aspen were abused.  All of Aspen's facilities run the same abusive program.

I am sorry I debunked your theories, DJ.  You need to come to the table with facts.  I know first hand that you can get individual therapy at Aspen programs, but not all kids get it.  I paid for it and my daughter received it, independent and licensed.  Depends on the individual families if they want it or not.

You need to support your arguments better and read the complaints.



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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #563 on: July 15, 2010, 05:40:03 PM »
You're just repeating what I already said:  The systematic abuse is included in the fee schedule, but there is no therapy provided by Aspen (you have to pay extra for an "independent" therapist).  We agree.  Aspen's lawyers made the same point in court, too.  So we all agree.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #564 on: July 15, 2010, 06:05:14 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
You're just repeating what I already said:  The systematic abuse is included in the fee schedule, but there is no therapy provided by Aspen (you have to pay extra for an "independent" therapist).  We agree.  Aspen's lawyers made the same point in court, too.  So we all agree.

 Some of the schools dont provide independent therapy others do, it depends on the program.  The ones that do not have individual therapists on staff bring in therapists once per week from outside.  So they provide therapy (but are not part of the staff).  This also alleviates any misconception that the programs are secretive and isolated.

I think you can now see what the lawyer was talking about, its all in the wording.  The parents opted not to have the therapy segment for their child.  Its a choice.



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Offline DannyB II

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #565 on: July 15, 2010, 06:13:23 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "NIGEL"
his psychologist at Aspen Ranch

Aspen programs do not provide psychological services, nor do they employ psychologists, as they stated in court.

DJ the man just said his son received said services, why do you have to contest. Man, do you have to argue with everyone who doesn't suit your take on programs.
Your beginning to resemble the other extremist here.
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Offline Pile of shit

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #566 on: July 15, 2010, 06:22:09 PM »
DJ and company don't have a school to slander and they're abusing ASPEN which has been easy for them to do.  DJ STFU about Nigel and quite bashing Whooter.  You act like a fucking two year old.  Use your Phd instead of sitting in front of your computer all day.  Dude look at Bennison.  The guy doesn't have an advanced degree like you and he's making more money than you.  What does that mean DJ?  He works his ass off and uses his brain!
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #567 on: July 15, 2010, 06:23:00 PM »
Quote from: "NIGEL"
In my opinion (and my son's), his psychologist at Aspen Ranch was very good and also very caring.

My daughters' was also.  She still stays in contact with a few of the other counselors that she met there.



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Offline DannyB II

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #568 on: July 15, 2010, 06:30:19 PM »
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Danny, I hope you're not trying to make the fallacious argument that anyone who has not physically done or experienced something themselves cannot know about it.  You know that's ridiculous.  

In a world like you describe there couln't possibly be any innovation at all - nobody could invent anything new.  That's silly.  It's like me saying to you "You never designed a computer, so you can't be using one to connect to the internet."  Is that really what you think?  If so, how could anyone who works at a program, but never raised a "troubled teen," be able to "help" any "troubled teens"?  It's a rather simplistic analysis, don't you think?

When I was in private practice I saw literally dozens of kids who went to programs and had serious psychological issues (anxiety, depression, PTSD) from being abused at a program.  Almost down to a one they would say they couldn't discuss any of it with their parents because their trust was destroyed.  Many never spoke to their parents again.  I think I have some good insight into this phenomenon and you ought not to be so judgmental of others' experiences or put forth some very weak argument like the one above.

Righhhhht, everything is weak according to you, you are the authority. I don't need a Phd to argue with you DJ, I know in my bones you have limited experience in this field. I am experiencing you through your writings. This is not intended to insult you, I just think you should tone done the  rhetoric a little.
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Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #569 on: July 16, 2010, 08:26:36 AM »
Quote from: "Pile of Shit"
DJ and company don't have a school to slander and they're abusing ASPEN which has been easy for them to do

I think you're mixed up, Pile of Shit.  Aspen abuses children.  I just post the reports by authorities that are shutting down Aspen facilities for abuse, neglect and killing children.  And, yes, it's easy to find plenty of documentation on Aspen's abuse, because they keep getting hit for it over and over.

How does one go about "abusing" a corporation anyway, I wonder?

FWIW, my new personal troll isn't very good at trolling at all.  He's one of the most blatant, obvious ones I've seen.  Never even makes a point of fact to counter an argument.  Debate is not his strong suit.  Maybe he went to Glenn Beck University? :cheers:  :rofl:
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