Author Topic: My son at Aspen Ranch  (Read 71104 times)

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Offline Ursus

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #240 on: September 24, 2009, 12:09:38 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
We are all descendents of the cave men but we have since invented the wheel.... alert!!!  Aspen is not CEDU.  Sorry, I know it would help your argument but it is 2009.  Lets talk about what is happening today.
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
Ah, sorry dude, it's called "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it." CEDU staff became Aspen staff, helped found the school itself. Thus CEDU and Aspen are forever linked. Can't get around it.
Great comeback, RMA Survivor! One thing ya might not have known is, Whooter is already well-versed in the intertwining of CEDU with Aspen's early days. After all, he professes great admiration for, and sometimes even personal friendship or acquaintance with, Rudy Bentz.

Among the several institutions Rudy worked for are ... Academy at Swift River, and Hidden Lake Academy.

Oddly enough, this John Reuben character people keep talking about had one of his sons at ASR, and the other son at HLA. Fancy that!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #241 on: September 24, 2009, 12:21:41 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Guest"
We are all descendents of the cave men but we have since invented the wheel.... alert!!!  Aspen is not CEDU.  Sorry, I know it would help your argument but it is 2009.  Lets talk about what is happening today.
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
Ah, sorry dude, it's called "Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it." CEDU staff became Aspen staff, helped found the school itself. Thus CEDU and Aspen are forever linked. Can't get around it.
Great comeback, RMA Survivor! One thing ya might not have known is, Whooter is already well-versed in the intertwining of CEDU with Aspen's early days. After all, he professes great admiration for, and sometimes even personal friendship or acquaintance with, Rudy Bentz.

Among the several institutions Rudy worked for are ... Academy at Swift River, and Hidden Lake Academy.

Oddly enough, this John Reuben character people keep talking about had one of his sons at ASR, and the other son at HLA. Fancy that!  :D
Hmmm, that's unlikely to be merely a coincidence...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline NIGEL

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #242 on: September 24, 2009, 12:44:17 AM »
RMA Survivor wrote:
The original poster said he hired an escort to take his child to the Aspen school? Care to enlighten us on the costs of this service?

The escort service I hired charged $2500.  This price payed for two escorts and my son to fly to SLC, Utah.  I am sure a rental car was required.  I am not sure if the escorts came from out of town, so their flights might have been roundtrip.  The escorts bought my son breakfast and lunch and some magazines to read on the plane.  I was there when they picked my son up, and I thought they did a very good job (they explained everything to my son before they left and they treated him with respect).  I have since asked my son about the whole journey and he said that the escorts were nice to him (I'm sure they are nice because they don't want any trouble).  I have also talked to my son about his emotions during this ordeal, and he said he was "beyond angry" with me at first.  He vowed never to talk to me or see me again.  Since then (over the last 2.5 months), he now claims that he desperately wants our relationship to get better and he wants to come home.  I am working on being a better Dad and I am letting him know the things I am doing to acheive this.  He has also been very open about telling me that he knows he screwed up and that he wants help (just not at the aspen ranch).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #243 on: September 24, 2009, 12:54:21 PM »
The escort service I hired charged $2500.  This price payed for two escorts and my son to fly to SLC, Utah.  I am sure a rental car was required.  I am not sure if the escorts came from out of town, so their flights might have been roundtrip.  The escorts bought my son breakfast and lunch and some magazines to read on the plane.  I was there when they picked my son up, and I thought they did a very good job (they explained everything to my son before they left and they treated him with respect).  I have since asked my son about the whole journey and he said that the escorts were nice to him (I'm sure they are nice because they don't want any trouble).  I have also talked to my son about his emotions during this ordeal, and he said he was "beyond angry" with me at first.  He vowed never to talk to me or see me again.  Since then (over the last 2.5 months), he now claims that he desperately wants our relationship to get better and he wants to come home.  I am working on being a better Dad and I am letting him know the things I am doing to acheive this.  He has also been very open about telling me that he knows he screwed up and that he wants help (just not at the aspen ranch).

I am one who believes that teens can receive a "wake-up call".  When a kid shoplifts and gets caught and spends a week in juvenile hall or something, it is often a quick method of letting them see the light regarding their behavior.  You were a teen once too, so you know kids screw up, take risks, are heavily influenced by peer pressure to take actions you would not want them to.  In my own life, my parents were upset that I didn't do all my homework.  I still passed my classes, but the homework was their issue.  And for not completing it all, I wound up at Rocky Mountain Academy for two years.  It was not an appropriate place for me.  I had no emotional issues.  I had no drug issues.  I never drank.  I basically did not get in to trouble.  Yet Rocky Mountain Academy claimed to be able to cure me.  These places do not offer treatment, they have no professional experience and the in my situation, the education system there was so lacking in normal structure and content that even though there would be no homework given, the classes taken would never have prepared me for college had I not already been prepared before arriving.  

Reading your original post, your sons situation sounds like those of many kids sent to these places.  Drugs, lack of performance in school and in life, taking risks.  It is not true that most students discuss wanting to come right away after the parents first visit.  I am surprised actually that he felt comfortable doing this.  My experience is that the staff play the students and parents off on each other.  Telling parents one thing, the student another.  The staff often try and create confusion, and in fact are typically the first ones to state that the child may offer up stories of abuse that are simply a form of manipulation and are wholly untrue, often before the student has ever expressed such things.  I know in my days in the CEDU system, all of the parents were warned.  But I don't know if the staff warned you of manipulation, or if your child came to you on their own and told you his stories.  The problem for many of us here on Fornits is that we would believe such stories to likely be truthful.  A lot of very strange things happen at these places.  Perhaps you might share a little more on what your son told you, so we can match it against stories we might have heard many times before?

I know you are desperately trying to help your son and many of us sincerely want to help in any way we can.  Finding the root cause to your sons issues is important.  Depression is very common, but what is causing the depression has to be determined before any forward progress can really be made.  The drug use and suicide concerns are probably byproducts of that depression, thus the depression is the focus.  What sort of professional counseling did you get your son before sending him to Aspen Ranch?  I would imagine at least one trained psychologist or psychiatrist.  

The reason these Wilderness Programs work as a form of drug rehab is that they strip search students, search footlockers and are so remotely located that access to such substances is limited.  But if the cause for the drug use is not removed, your son could go the next five years without using a single drug, come home and go right back to using, and feeling suicidal soon after, because the depression is still present.  

I see that you have two problems.  First is the fact your son is suffering from depression and his coming home should be dependent upon his agreeing to undergo treatment.  Second, your son is currently in a program that falsely advertises that it treats people, when it does not, and is likely to damage your son further because none of these programs is lacking in mental abuse, which your son clearly does not need. Humiliation is a deep part of these programs, and a person suffering from depression needs none of that.  You need to spend a lot of time with your son.  You need to find out from his mouth what is troubling him, and understand he may have trouble expressing what it is.  There is a child Health Council at Stanford University that can test and offer a clinical evaluation, offering recommending specific avenues for treatment including whether a counselor chosen should be male or female.  They can identify strengths and weaknesses and state of mind.  Finding out what is causing this depression and treating it is probably what will "save" your son.  But keep in mind, we were all teens once.  There is a phase many of us go through where we doubt ourselves, don't think we will amount to everything we dreamed we would be when we were eight years old, are unsure of our sexuality and so on.  But turning eighteen and standing on a college campus with adults is a wake up call in and of itself.  Surrounded by mature people, many of our life decisions change when we see other role models around us.  So as your son ages, he is likely to survive just fine as his environment and experiences change.  Your son really sounds like a typical teenager.  If you can get to the root of his depression, really get to know him personally and what his fears and his dreams are, you can give him the help he needs.  There is nobody on this earth who is more important in this process than his parents.  You have known your son longer than anyone, you have a much deeper interest in his success than anyone besides himself.  This is why sending him away is less valuable than being there for him every day.

Your son wants to come home.  Because he wants this, you are in a position to explain to him what you want.  And that is for him to commit to working with you to get his depression treated.  And tell him it is 100% normal for him to experience depression.  Don't ostracize him.  He needs to know his problems can be solved and that you are there to make that happen and that it will take his commitment as well to ensure success.  Involve him in the process and get directly involved yourself.  When the depression is under control, the drugs and the suicidal thoughts will be under control as well.  And there is nothing more powerful than being in control of ones self.  

I wish you and your son the best of luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #244 on: September 24, 2009, 12:58:00 PM »
Quote from: "RMA Survivor"
The escort service I hired charged $2500.  This price payed for two escorts and my son to fly to SLC, Utah.  I am sure a rental car was required.  I am not sure if the escorts came from out of town, so their flights might have been roundtrip.  The escorts bought my son breakfast and lunch and some magazines to read on the plane.  I was there when they picked my son up, and I thought they did a very good job (they explained everything to my son before they left and they treated him with respect).  I have since asked my son about the whole journey and he said that the escorts were nice to him (I'm sure they are nice because they don't want any trouble).  I have also talked to my son about his emotions during this ordeal, and he said he was "beyond angry" with me at first.  He vowed never to talk to me or see me again.  Since then (over the last 2.5 months), he now claims that he desperately wants our relationship to get better and he wants to come home.  I am working on being a better Dad and I am letting him know the things I am doing to acheive this.  He has also been very open about telling me that he knows he screwed up and that he wants help (just not at the aspen ranch).

I am one who believes that teens can receive a "wake-up call".  When a kid shoplifts and gets caught and spends a week in juvenile hall or something, it is often a quick method of letting them see the light regarding their behavior.  You were a teen once too, so you know kids screw up, take risks, are heavily influenced by peer pressure to take actions you would not want them to.  In my own life, my parents were upset that I didn't do all my homework.  I still passed my classes, but the homework was their issue.  And for not completing it all, I wound up at Rocky Mountain Academy for two years.  It was not an appropriate place for me.  I had no emotional issues.  I had no drug issues.  I never drank.  I basically did not get in to trouble.  Yet Rocky Mountain Academy claimed to be able to cure me.  These places do not offer treatment, they have no professional experience and the in my situation, the education system there was so lacking in normal structure and content that even though there would be no homework given, the classes taken would never have prepared me for college had I not already been prepared before arriving.  

Reading your original post, your sons situation sounds like those of many kids sent to these places.  Drugs, lack of performance in school and in life, taking risks.  It is not true that most students discuss wanting to come right away after the parents first visit.  I am surprised actually that he felt comfortable doing this.  My experience is that the staff play the students and parents off on each other.  Telling parents one thing, the student another.  The staff often try and create confusion, and in fact are typically the first ones to state that the child may offer up stories of abuse that are simply a form of manipulation and are wholly untrue, often before the student has ever expressed such things.  I know in my days in the CEDU system, all of the parents were warned.  But I don't know if the staff warned you of manipulation, or if your child came to you on their own and told you his stories.  The problem for many of us here on Fornits is that we would believe such stories to likely be truthful.  A lot of very strange things happen at these places.  Perhaps you might share a little more on what your son told you, so we can match it against stories we might have heard many times before?

I know you are desperately trying to help your son and many of us sincerely want to help in any way we can.  Finding the root cause to your sons issues is important.  Depression is very common, but what is causing the depression has to be determined before any forward progress can really be made.  The drug use and suicide concerns are probably byproducts of that depression, thus the depression is the focus.  What sort of professional counseling did you get your son before sending him to Aspen Ranch?  I would imagine at least one trained psychologist or psychiatrist.  

The reason these Wilderness Programs work as a form of drug rehab is that they strip search students, search footlockers and are so remotely located that access to such substances is limited.  But if the cause for the drug use is not removed, your son could go the next five years without using a single drug, come home and go right back to using, and feeling suicidal soon after, because the depression is still present.  

I see that you have two problems.  First is the fact your son is suffering from depression and his coming home should be dependent upon his agreeing to undergo treatment.  Second, your son is currently in a program that falsely advertises that it treats people, when it does not, and is likely to damage your son further because none of these programs is lacking in mental abuse, which your son clearly does not need. Humiliation is a deep part of these programs, and a person suffering from depression needs none of that.  You need to spend a lot of time with your son.  You need to find out from his mouth what is troubling him, and understand he may have trouble expressing what it is.  There is a child Health Council at Stanford University that can test and offer a clinical evaluation, offering recommending specific avenues for treatment including whether a counselor chosen should be male or female.  They can identify strengths and weaknesses and state of mind.  Finding out what is causing this depression and treating it is probably what will "save" your son.  But keep in mind, we were all teens once.  There is a phase many of us go through where we doubt ourselves, don't think we will amount to everything we dreamed we would be when we were eight years old, are unsure of our sexuality and so on.  But turning eighteen and standing on a college campus with adults is a wake up call in and of itself.  Surrounded by mature people, many of our life decisions change when we see other role models around us.  So as your son ages, he is likely to survive just fine as his environment and experiences change.  Your son really sounds like a typical teenager.  If you can get to the root of his depression, really get to know him personally and what his fears and his dreams are, you can give him the help he needs.  There is nobody on this earth who is more important in this process than his parents.  You have known your son longer than anyone, you have a much deeper interest in his success than anyone besides himself.  This is why sending him away is less valuable than being there for him every day.

Your son wants to come home.  Because he wants this, you are in a position to explain to him what you want.  And that is for him to commit to working with you to get his depression treated.  And tell him it is 100% normal for him to experience depression.  Don't ostracize him.  He needs to know his problems can be solved and that you are there to make that happen and that it will take his commitment as well to ensure success.  Involve him in the process and get directly involved yourself.  When the depression is under control, the drugs and the suicidal thoughts will be under control as well.  And there is nothing more powerful than being in control of ones self.  

I wish you and your son the best of luck.

Nigel is a sockpuppet of theIT. pay him no attention
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #245 on: September 24, 2009, 01:38:02 PM »
I happen to like sock puppets.  As for Nigel being one, I could care less.  The man is asking for advice about his son, and I will provide what I can.  If you don't like it, don't read about it.  

As for the comments that there are trolls who work or are related to the Aspen group itself posting here, I know.  And I don't think many parents coming to this site see them any differently.  It may be helpful to have their posts here.  Except people often don't realize that this is a forum to primarily discuss the programs from a survivor point of view.  I have no idea why those who claim the programs were miraculous cures find a need to come here.  Clearly we do not share their views and never will.  As such, they come off as people who are "Born again Christians" who find a need to spout off about their new relationship with God rather than just enjoying it for themselves. Or people who graduate Basic Training who come out and start ragging on their friends for being so lazy and having no sense of spirit or patriotism.  If they have it, power to them.  For some of us, the programs were not quite as advertised.  And as we have come to learn recently, or rather to have confirmed recently, Aspen and likely all of the other programs were intentionally deceiving parents, and thus the students as well, that they offered some sort of cure or treatment, and we now know what we have known.  That was all bullshit.  

So the parents who come to this site can see for themselves what is true and what is not.  Though we are mainly about the negative aspects of the programs here, parents have a chance to see that, get some information to work with to make better decisions for their kids.  Something all of us hope happens.  But they can spot the trolls and the program puppets who post here.  They are not hiding their love affair with the programs.  And we are not hiding our views either.  

It really warms my heart every time I see a parent posting here.  It shows they are taking the time to research, when many of our own parents did not.  There is so much greater access to information today than back in the days when I went to Rocky Mountain Academy.  Though I often worry that some of our rants come off as teenage arguments rather than strong, mature and full of useful information.  But the parents who come to this site... I give them more credit, and assume they can read through the clutter of rants and understand that there are lot of survivors posting here for a reason, and that we do bring a lot of documentation of the criminal activities and deceptive practices these programs are all about.  And we are all witnesses.  We went through the programs, we have first hand experiences.  And if a parent, such as Nigel, is saying his son is giving him stories about what is happening at Aspen Ranch, if Nigel is able to find similar accounts here, that validates what his son told him, it builds trust between them, and it also validates what we discuss here.  

Most of us on Fornits feel that if we save one teen from attending such a program, or get one teen out, we have accomplished something fantastic.  We are not wishy washy regarding our view of Aspen and other programs.  We feel sincerely that these facilities lie about what they offer, have no formal training to accomplish what they claim to be able to, that many of the staff have committed serious crimes before and during their days as counselors and have no business working with kids.  We know these staff have worked for other failed programs, migrating from one to another and even founding their own programs despite having no qualifications to do so.  And if parents come here and find these things out for themselves while also hearing some of our war stories, all is well.  I trust that they wouldn't be here to begin with unless they had a serious and unwavering desire to get every piece of available information on helping their child.  And I am here to offer what I can.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ursus

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #246 on: September 24, 2009, 05:44:06 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Nigel is a sockpuppet of theIT. pay him no attention
Who cares? What difference would it make if he was?

Even if Nigel were actually a troll, how would that change his providing a venue of discussion for getting the word out, as to what "the real deal" is, as far as these programs are concerned?

Do ya think this here is a private conversation strictly between actual participants on fornits? Guess again! This is the internet. Everyone is free to read what is posted here.

Whether Nigel is actually a parent or not, some (more) actual parents will come along soon enough, and might actually learn something from what is posted here. Your attempts to squelch dialogue because you think he is a bogeyman would serve only to hinder that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #247 on: September 24, 2009, 06:16:10 PM »
lol. “attempts to squelch speech.”
I’m sure guest has a gun to you head or is drafting a law as we speak

Internet? Check. Semi delusional references to attempts of “silencing” speech? Check. You have yourself a forum.

Ok, so trolls will be fed…bot remember, talking to it like its real (its not) gives its wacko story about Aspen Ranch being a well run facility a level of believability.…the tack you're taking may not be the right one. So says the internet with whom I am intimately familiar
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #248 on: September 24, 2009, 06:19:39 PM »
No, the idea was to educate others on the fact the guy is an Aspen Cheer Leader.  Keep in mind, as public as this Fornits site is, the general population here are clearly anti-Teen Prison Camp.  And some of us like to know who the Guests are who Cheer lead for these programs are just so we know where they are coming from.  

Parents are quite welcome to come here as is anyone else.  But they soon tend to learn this is an anti-program site.  We are not in favor of anyone attending these programs.  And when "experts" show up as Guests, and claim all the programs are the miraculous cures they are advertised to be, some of us want to shut down their arguments.  It's a game.  Sometimes the threads on survivor stories or current horror stories go dead and these sock puppets provide a useful distraction of allowing us to talk trash to each other.  We know what they are about, they know what we are about.  So when someone is being outed as a sock puppet and mouthpiece for these programs, some of us like to have that information and some of us like to engage them.  Parents who come to this site are fully capable of figuring out who is who and what this site is about.  And if they learn something that helps them to get the best care for their children, sweet!  Most of just don't feel these programs are the source to provide that.  But stick around longer and you might figure this all out yourself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #249 on: September 24, 2009, 09:21:18 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Guest"
Nigel is a sockpuppet of theIT. pay him no attention
Who cares? What difference would it make if he was?

Even if Nigel were actually a troll, how would that change his providing a venue of discussion for getting the word out, as to what "the real deal" is, as far as these programs are concerned?

Do ya think this here is a private conversation strictly between actual participants on fornits? Guess again! This is the internet. Everyone is free to read what is posted here.

Whether Nigel is actually a parent or not, some (more) actual parents will come along soon enough, and might actually learn something from what is posted here. Your attempts to squelch dialogue because you think he is a bogeyman would serve only to hinder that.

Why not be a little open minded and listen to a parents point of view of what is going on inside Aspen Ranch "Today" and his son who is actually giving information "real Time".  Why not try to get a little insight, learn something up to date.... it seems that they are allowing kids to write letters home without them being read by staff.  Isnt this something that fornits has been fighting for?  Why not be happy with these little accomplishments.  Maybe fornits had something to do with this change!!  Its an opportunity to gather more info inside of programs, lets not burn that bridge to the information by chasing Nigel away.  There are many of us who are very interested in hearing about his and his sons journey.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #250 on: September 25, 2009, 10:15:41 AM »
NIGEL said earlier that he has not yet visited Aspen Ranch.  How can he possibly comment on what goes on behind closed doors of a facility he's never seen?  Right now all NIGEL knows is what Aspen Ranch tells him.  Nothing more.

This is also said with full knowledge NIGEL is simply a sock-puppet of TheWho.

Remember NIGEL told us he sent his kid to Aspen Ranch without knowing anything about it?  Now, after not knowing anything and not ever setting foot on the premises, NIGEL is all of a sudden some kind of "inside source" of Aspen Ranch information?  That's a joke, and the sock-puppeteer, John Rueben, fails epicly once more.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #251 on: September 25, 2009, 10:29:44 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
NIGEL said earlier that he has not yet visited Aspen Ranch.  How can he possibly comment on what goes on behind closed doors of a facility he's never seen?  Right now all NIGEL knows is what Aspen Ranch tells him.  Nothing more.

This is also said with full knowledge NIGEL is simply a sock-puppet of TheWho.

Remember NIGEL told us he sent his kid to Aspen Ranch without knowing anything about it?  Now, after not knowing anything and not ever setting foot on the premises, NIGEL is all of a sudden some kind of "inside source" of Aspen Ranch information?  That's a joke, and the sock-puppeteer, John Rueben, fails epicly once more.

He knows through his son who he speaks with once a week and received letters from him.  Why not listen to what they have to say?  Its not going to hurt to hear an updated account or what the previous poster said:

Why not be a little open minded and listen to a parents point of view of what is going on inside Aspen Ranch "Today" and his son who is actually giving information "real Time". Why not try to get a little insight, learn something up to date.... it seems that they are allowing kids to write letters home without them being read by staff. Isnt this something that fornits has been fighting for? Why not be happy with these little accomplishments. Maybe fornits had something to do with this change!! Its an opportunity to gather more info inside of programs, lets not burn that bridge to the information by chasing Nigel away. There are many of us who are very interested in hearing about his and his sons journey.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #252 on: September 25, 2009, 10:34:30 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
NIGEL said earlier that he has not yet visited Aspen Ranch.  How can he possibly comment on what goes on behind closed doors of a facility he's never seen?  Right now all NIGEL knows is what Aspen Ranch tells him.  Nothing more.

This is also said with full knowledge NIGEL is simply a sock-puppet of TheWho.

Remember NIGEL told us he sent his kid to Aspen Ranch without knowing anything about it?  Now, after not knowing anything and not ever setting foot on the premises, NIGEL is all of a sudden some kind of "inside source" of Aspen Ranch information?  That's a joke, and the sock-puppeteer, John Rueben, fails epicly once more.

I agree with this.  How can NIGEL have gone from completely ignorant about the program to knowing all the inside details when he admits he's never been there at all, ever?  The story is too fishy to be a real person.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #253 on: September 25, 2009, 11:55:10 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
NIGEL said earlier that he has not yet visited Aspen Ranch.  How can he possibly comment on what goes on behind closed doors of a facility he's never seen?  Right now all NIGEL knows is what Aspen Ranch tells him.  Nothing more.

This is also said with full knowledge NIGEL is simply a sock-puppet of TheWho.

Remember NIGEL told us he sent his kid to Aspen Ranch without knowing anything about it?  Now, after not knowing anything and not ever setting foot on the premises, NIGEL is all of a sudden some kind of "inside source" of Aspen Ranch information?  That's a joke, and the sock-puppeteer, John Rueben, fails epicly once more.

I agree with this.  How can NIGEL have gone from completely ignorant about the program to knowing all the inside details when he admits he's never been there at all, ever?  The story is too fishy to be a real person.

He has a son who is there and they speak every week.  Now go back and close your eyes and and ears and remember the past when the programs were this evil entity and keep repeating over and over  "Dont listen to facts, stick with the fantasy.... I remember the Hobbit ,the host families and the 300 lb counselors who would sit on me.. all programs are the same"...."Dont listen to facts, stick with the fantasy.... I remember the Hobbit, the host families and the 300 lb counselors who would sit on me.. all programs are the same"....   Dont listen to facts, stick with the fantasy.... I remember the Hobbit, the host families and the 300 lb counselors who would sit on me.. all programs are the same"..Dont listen to facts, stick with the fantasy.... I remember the Hobbit, the host families and the 300 lb counselors who would sit on me.. all programs are the same"..[/size]  SSSSLLLEEEEEPPPPP
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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Re: My son at Aspen Ranch
« Reply #254 on: September 25, 2009, 12:38:58 PM »
So, talking to his son on the phone makes him privvy to inside information?  I don't think so.  He said his kid was sent there for drinking/drugging/lying.  So now a second-hand conversation between a "parent" and his lying son suffices for "evidence" for you Whooter?  You have very, very low standards.  And you now have flip-flopped from disregarding the lying children's stories to taking a second-hand account from a lying kid as fact.  Fine if you want to.  But don't expect anyone else to buy it.  It's laughable in fact.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The Linchpin Link

Whooter - The Most Prolific Troll Fornits Has Ever Seen - The Definitive Links
**********************************************************************************************************
"Looks like a nasty aspentrolius sticci whooterensis infestation you got there, Ms. Fornits.  I\'ll get right to work."

- Troll Control