Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Congratulations Ginger
Anonymous:
Congratulations Ginger, on turning this board into a pedophilia and violence fantasy discussion group by virtue of your "deft" actions as moderator. Were you upset that interest in the board waned when Greg's involvement stopped & it became your board? Was this your way to win ratings?
What's the next act? Are you going to permit presidential assassination fantasies or terrorrist plots against population centers to take place in these pages as you defend your first amendment right to allow that kind of crap? Hey, maybe you can become the new outlet for Bin Ladin to post his BS?
Clean this crap up, & take some responsibility for this board ... unless you want it to lose any semblance of rationality, relevance, or applicability. What's going on in these pages has nothing to do with the Seed, nothing to do with drug rehabs, and nothing to do with helping anyone with anything.
GregFL:
Let me pipe in here a minute. Maybe I can put some perspective on this.
Let's remove the personalities from the equation for a minute and talk about how and why and what is going on. I apologize in advance because this will take some wind to explain in detail.
First, Ginger started fornits on her own and modeled it after a forum she spent some time arguing successfully on. I believe this was alt.lawenforcement. This forum was completely unmoderated and had similar problems/results as the rest of fornits does now. However Ginger noticed that the unmoderated format, in addition to the trolls, various logins, etc allowed for a certain amount of "truth" (tm) to bubble up to the surface.
When Ginger started fornits it was pretty much about Straight, Inc. However she was prodding me to add a forum about the Seed and frankly I was very hesitant to do it. My passion for debate could not be accomplished on an unmoderated forum where everyone could just attack people and shout down any argument you were winning (or losing). My experience in the regular straight forum was frustrating to me for this very reason. I have always enjoyed debate, but I don't like dealing with people who aren't up to the task and try to 'win' in ways that are reprehensible.
One day I called Ginger and told her to put the Seed forum up but that I was going to run it differently and try to attract all sides to a conversation where we could learn about the history of the program and talk to the people directly who were on the inside of Barker's kooky little cult. In context, we were missing big pieces of the puzzle. the how, who and when this thing developed from Barker's kooky personality cult into a chain of rehabs that existed (with the dire of Barker) until the present. I WANTED TO KNOW. I also felt very vindicated from talking out my lingering issues from the Seed and wanted to offer this opportunity to everyone, Staffers and insiders, unwilling kids forced into the program, etc. to really have an opportunity to understand what occured and to resolve their own lingering issues. It was my way to try to help right a perceived wrong, to give a gift to everyone who was there that had a hard time processing the experience, An opportunity to talk about something that no one would talk about, and to do so in a manner that was comfortable and offered a chance of healing and vindication. (cont)
GregFL:
So, My experiment with the forum consisted of allowing anyone to speak their mind as long as they spoke about the topic and I tried to moderate it in a similar way a formal debate would be moderated. That is, to try to remove my personal bias from the conversation and allow the conversation to progress on its own, without manipulation.
We can argue back and forth which approach yields better results, but for now lets leave that out.
To me the forum was a huge success, but it also required me spending a lot of time on it, in addition to helping Ginger administrate the entire forum. Ginger always thought all the forums should be unmoderated but respected my efforts ( I think) and allowed me to do it my way. However, when I left for personal reasons, She just let the forum go the rest into the fornits unmoderated. In addition, she added new (and effective) personalities to the mix like Psy who share her philosophy about the forum.
That is really the whole story. My only issue with this forum and the current admin(s) is that leaving the Seed Discussion forum up in its current condition is unfair due to the fact that it is a blended[/b] conversation. Had I been thinking properly and to the future, when I stopped moderating it I would have asked Ginger to archive it at that point, and I am sure she would have done it. then she could have thrown up a new forum, say.."the Seed unmoderated forum" and people wouldn't be angry and pissed at the way the former conversation is lost under the new one.
That request still stands for Ginger and/or PSY to cut it off where I left off and start a new one from there. Not one conversation needs to be lost, not even the most vile and disqusting ones from the most vile and disqusting people. We would just have clarity of purpose and philosophy between the two forums. That is all that would be accomplished, and not one person has to be censored or otherwise have their rights to be an antisocial sociopathic asshole infringed upon.
I would like to request that anyone who agrees with me to please respectfully write ginger a PM and tell her so. If Neither Psy or Ginger wants to do the work, they can grant me temporary Admin rights and I will do it. As a former Admin of the entire Fornits site, Ginger is well aware of my character and trustworthyness and my ability to accomplish this task while respecting her wishes and I think the problem will be resolved.
Antigen:
First, yes I do respect your efforts, Greg. However I don't think you really get how close to impossible it would be to separate the old moderated conversation from the newer unmoderated stuff. Where do you draw the line when stuff you don't like is attached to old threads you want to preserve? What about the stuff you do like that came after you quit moderating?
And yeah, it was alt.law-enforcement on usenet. I used to spend a lot of time discussing drug policy with cops, activists and anyone else who cared to drop in on that one. It was (and probably still is) a much, much more popular forum than this one as law enforcement is something everyone is somewhat familiar with while program vets are only a very small part of the population by comparison. I started this forum specifically to address a problem Wes was having. He was trying to get a usenet group about the program and it just wasn't happening. There just wasn't enough interest at the time. I bet it would work now, though. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple of usenet groups on the program in some form or other by now.
If you want to talk results, hell that's an easy one! Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) is just one of many effective efforts that has sprung out of that same--often very ugly--brawl. Media Awareness Project is another.
Anybody who wants to can search out old threads. That's the beauty of the net and the strategy for getting the word out at affordable costs--both in terms of money and time and effort.
--- Quote from: "Fed Up" ---Congratulations Ginger, on turning this board into a pedophilia and violence fantasy discussion group by virtue of your "deft" actions as moderator.
--- End quote ---
I understand your frustration. However you're missing something very basic here. I don't moderate this forum. Nobody does. Also, if you hadn't noticed, our new old friends seem to have vented enough and started to calm down lately. That's usually how it goes. People just run out of that kind of steam and, at the same time, other readers and posters complain and, well, people tend to reel themselves in after awhile. I'm also reminded of something Psy said not long ago about how people are so used to having someone in charge to control such outbursts that, as a society, we've nearly lost that kind of self control. I think that will work itself out too as more and more people get into the mix and get a little practice at thinking for themselves.
Here are two suggestions for dealing with all the uglieness :feedtrolls: or :boycott:
:peace:
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "GregFL" ---So, My experiment with the forum consisted of allowing anyone to speak their mind as long as they spoke about the topic and I tried to moderate it in a similar way a formal debate would be moderated. That is, to try to remove my personal bias from the conversation and allow the conversation to progress on its own, without manipulation.
We can argue back and forth which approach yields better results, but for now lets leave that out. ( by the way all know it is you( GREG) typing back and fourth)
To me the forum was a huge success, but it also required me spending a lot of time on it, in addition to helping Ginger administrate the entire forum. Ginger always thought all the forums should be unmoderated but respected my efforts ( I think) and allowed me to do it my way. However, when I left for personal reasons, She just let the forum go the rest into the fornits unmoderated. In addition, she added new (and effective) personalities to the mix like Psy who share her philosophy about the forum. ( YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY HUH GREG) (NOT)
That is really the whole story. My only issue with this forum and the current admin(s) is that leaving the Seed Discussion forum up in its current condition is unfair due to the fact that it is a blended[/b] conversation. Had I been thinking properly and to the future, when I stopped moderating it I would have asked Ginger to archive it at that point, and I am sure she would have done it. then she could have thrown up a new forum, say.."the Seed unmoderated forum" and people wouldn't be angry and pissed at the way the former conversation is lost under the new one. ( do you think responding like you did back and fourth yourself is proper?) I see it as a funny way to get your way is all.
That request still stands for Ginger and/or PSY to cut it off where I left off and start a new one from there. Not one conversation needs to be lost, not even the most vile and disqusting ones from the most vile and disqusting people. We would just have clarity of purpose and philosophy between the two forums. That is all that would be accomplished, and not one person has to be censored or otherwise have their rights to be an antisocial sociopathic asshole infringed upon. ( do you mean it was disgusting how you went back and fourth and came in many names yourself?)
I would like to request that anyone who agrees with me to please respectfully write ginger a PM and tell her so. If Neither Psy or Ginger wants to do the work, they can grant me temporary Admin rights and I will do it. As a former Admin of the entire Fornits site, Ginger is well aware of my character and trustworthyness and my ability to accomplish this task while respecting her wishes and I think the problem will be resolved.
--- End quote ---
( why don't you just grow up GREG it is not all about you) Greg are you drunk? What is truthworthyness???
Greg no matter how many names and things you try to be, you always blow what you are really about. Sad to see you post anything, you just showed it was you all along is all. Really sad you keep using your daughter and the board in this manner. Grow up Greg, let others come in and say what all is on mind, I vote you out of here. :twofinger: No voting allowed.... Not getting your way Greg.
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